Is a show Public Domain? (1 Viewer)

[Tim Tucker]

And the first season of Star Trek. Paramount had to go to court to reassert ownership.

 

[Joseph DeMartino]

And that in itself can create ambiguity. It may be perfectly legal to continue to sell existing stocks of PD IaWL discs because they were created during a time when the copyright was not in force.

Even that suspect company you mentioned as selling bootlegs on a major website may actually own the rights to some of the titles they sell. Crooks and pirates often operate behind a legitimate front that does some legal business.

Given the fluid nature of the whole thing it would be virtually impossible to assemble and maintain a comprehensive database of this kind of operation. And who would pay for it? It would be a nice research tool for movie and TV obsessives like us, but it is hard to see why the studios would finance such a thing. Their own legal departments are supposed to keep tabs on their own stuff, and they have no reason to care about anybody else's. In theory a database could help reduce piracy by identifying bootlegs, but in practice only a tiny minority of potential buyers would ever consult it and only an even smaller number would use the information to steer clear of bad discs. (Besides, the bulk of the movie piracy problem involves actual counterfeits of real studio releases, with duplicate cover art, logs, etc, not unreleased product.)

Regards,

Joe

 

[David Levine]

Amazon is notorious for having bootlegs on their site. But they do a pretty good job of removing them (or at least leaving them up, but saying discontinued) when they are informed about it.

Your best best is to look first who is putting it out. If its a major studio, you know you are safe. If its a known independent (Shout, MPI, Magnolia, Image, etc), you're cool. If its a company you've never heard of and its a complete series, odds are its a bootleg. Also a lot of bootleggers will advertise as being "region free" - that's a huge red flag.

Also check TVShowsOnDVD.com and search for it. Gord and Dave are very good about reporting on virtually every legit R1 TV release. Search their database and if there are no stories about it, that's a good sign that you better really check into it, because its likely not legit.

 

[Mark Talmadge]

Jon Martin, actually, that is incorrect. I have never heard of sites like Best Buy, Overstock, Circuit City, Amazon or any national retailer selling bootleg DVD's.

Now, if you're referring to DVD-r's that Amazon sells, those are not bootleg releases since they have an exclusive agreement to release the series to DVD-r from the studio who will release that series to DVD. Since the sets have yet to be officially manufactured, they are not bootlegs.

Now, if you're referring to Amazon's Marketplace or Overstock Auctions, then you're mistaken. These are not purchases conducted by Amazon and are second hand merchandise sold via auction-type services sold through Amazon and Overstock.

You will never, ever, purchase any bootleg merchandise that involves CD's, DVD's or other media related merchandise directly from Amazon or any other national retailer.

Now, if you purchase through Amazon Marketplace or Overstock Auctions, then you are taking your chances on receiving possible bootleg items.

The retailers I posted sell 100% legal CD and DVD's manufactured by the studios. They do not sell bootleg or pirated material.

 

[TravisR]

Like David Levine said, they don't do it knowingly and when they are informed, they take them down.

 

[Neil Brock]

Since the show you are questioning was produced in the 60s, it's copyright renewal came up after 28 years in the 90s. Which is more recently than 1978.
So, what's wrong? If the copyright was renewed, which it was, it's listed in the database. 1978 minus 28 years brings you back to any show produced from 1950 onward, pretty much back to the dawn of TV. So, for 99.9% of television, that online catalogue will work pretty well.

 

[Jeff Gatie]

Hence the reason the archive begins in 1978.

 

[Jon Martin]

They don't KNOWINGLY sell bootleg titles, but with hundreds of DVDs being released each week, they can't check all of them. They are given product by a company that they believe is legit, and list it as if they were.

There is one company (whose name I won't mention that specializes in 80's films) that has hundreds of titles on Amazon, all bootlegs, yet Amazon lists them as if they are real releases. And not through third party, they are shipped and sold from Amazon.

Even if it is listed on Amazon, or found on the budget rack of Best Buy, it doesn't mean it is official. Look for the company that released it. If it is a name company, you are safe.

If you've heard of the film and never heard of the company, beware.

 

[Regulus]

As far as I'm concerned, The Rumor about 12 O Clock High is RUBBISH! Ok?

This isn't the first time such a rumor has surfaced, (Last year several sites were buzzing about a certain 1960s Superhero Show who's ownership is disputed by two companies) and I'm sure it won't be the last. Just Remember "If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is!"

For the record the previous rumor turned out to be a Book being published, which placed it in the "Grossly Exagerrated" Catigory!

 

[Mark Talmadge]

Jon Martin, again, you are talking about Amazon's Marketplace.

Amazon.com the online retailer, in reference to CD's and DVD's only sells authentic CD's and DVD's produced by the studios who produced or are legally authorized to produce and sell those DVD's.

Amazon Marketplace is a sub-community of individuals and other smaller retailers who sell their merchandise through Amazon.

While all purchases are conducted through Amazon.com Amazon.com isn't responsible for merchandise sold by or posted through the Amazon.com website.

Before you bring it up, if Amazon.com doesn't normally sell a certain product or doesn't have it available for sale, an individual or smaller retailer who wants to sell a newer product, such as imported toys or imported DVD's and Amazon.com doesn't sell the item directly, then that item is placed on Amazon.com's website for sale via their Amazon Marketplace.

Jon Martin, what has happened is that you've mistaken Amazon.com for Amazon Marketplace. Here, I'll explain further. Click on the following link:

Amazon.com: Revoltech > Fraulein No.004 Pocco Action Figure: Toys & Games

Amazon Marketplace is Amazon.com's fixed-price online marketplace that allows sellers to offer their goods alongside Amazon's offerings. Buyers can buy new and used items sold directly by a third party through Amazon.com using Amazon Marketplace.

Since Amazon.com doesn't sell the item directly as a company, an individual or smaller retailer can post the item for sale on Amazon.com through the Amazon Marketplace. If you notice, the item is listed but since Amazon.com doesn't sell it directly it's sold through the seller. Click on the seller's information and you're given their Amazon Marketplace information.

This also includes bootleg DVD's. If a seller is intent on selling a bootleg DVD on Amazon, there is no way that Amazon can check the item. However, all of the merchandise that Amazon sells directly is checked and rechecked for unauthorized merchandise such as Bootlegs. Amazon doesn't not sell this kind of merchandise.

 

[TravisR]

No, he's not. Like Jon said, they don't mean to sell bootlegs but the huge volumes of titles that they deal in makes it impossible to not make some mistakes.

 

[Mark Talmadge]

Travis, I read what he said and that's not what he said. Here, let me quote:


Amazon, and I repeat, Amazon does not sell these bootleg items, the sellers do. Amazon simply acts as a middleman, processing the payment. That is all they do. If you buy a bootleg DVD through Amazon, the item is sent from the seller (not Amazon), if you do not receive the item, you take that up with the seller (not Amazon).

While I understand that you're trying to resolve this, Jon has an incorrect understanding of the way that Amazon and their 'Flea Market' Amazon Marketplace works. Amazon does not have this merchandise in their physical custody. The merchandise that you buy from Amazon will have a "Buy New" indicator listed on the very first line of the deal.

If the item isn't sold by Amazon but rather by a seller or by another retailer, it will list the retailer's name. The item is not send from Amazon because Amazon does not sell it. Because, if this were true, then Amazon would be getting sued by the MPAA for selling bootleg merchandise.

As it stands, if you ordered and bought a DVD from Amazon and it turned out to be bootleg, then it did not come from Amazon and that you ordered and bought it from a seller or another retailer who sold it on Amazon.

What I'm saying is that Jon is confusing two different aspects of Amazon. Trust me, those items sold by sellers do not have Amazon's logo or packaging information stuck to the mailing package. It will have the seller's address information.

I have ordered merchandise from sellers before and not a single DVD I bought from a seller had Amazon's logo on the mailer/packaging of the item.

 

[Mark Talmadge]

As far as Jon's statement:

There is one company (whose name I won't mention that specializes in 80's films) that has hundreds of titles on Amazon, all bootlegs, yet Amazon lists them as if they are real releases. And not through third party, they are shipped and sold from Amazon.

Trust me, while this may be true, I can assure you that the seller, most likely, does not list his product as "bootleg." Because Amazon would take that down immediately.

And, I reiterate, if you know these are bootleg, then you should report it to Amazon. As I said before, Amazon does not sell this merchandise, the sellers do.

As long as consumers to Amazon.com don't repoprt these sellers, then they keep trafficking their bootlegged merchandise.

 

[Jon Martin]

Mark,

I am well aware of how Amazon works, and the items ARE sold through Amazon. Not the Marketplace. Not a third party seller. They are sold by the company with the "Ships from and sold by Amazon.com" listing. If you order a book or other DVD, the item will ship together.

Like this one:

Amazon.com: Attack of the 80s: Artist Not Provided: Movies & TV

That is a bootleg collection of trailers, complete with using footage from STAR WARS for the menus. It has been on Amazon for over a year. Netflix even has it. Yet, they don't have the rights to any of the footage.

That same company released 1982's STAR STRUCK in a terrible transfer that was taken down after it was officially released by another company. You can see it now up there as only being available from 3rd party sellers. But before the official release came out, it was available to buy directly from Amazon.

They also released Sam Fuller's WHITE DOG, which was taken down (but you can find links on Amazon) when Criterion announced their version.

Read over in the movies section, it has been discussed before.

Again, Amazon doesn't know about these films, and wouldn't knowingly allow them. But they sell them.

 

[David Levine]

No bootlegger lists their products as bootlegs.

It happens frequently on Amazon. They don't have a legal department that checks over every title submitted to them to ensure no bootlegs slip through. When I was working on the classic He-Man sets we dealt with it all the time. Amazon having listings for the "Complete Series" that were sold by/shipped by Amazon. They took them down when we called it to their attention.

A lot of the companies appear legit. There is one infamous distributor of Martial Arts films that has been getting their titles into Amazon, Suncoast and Best Buy for years. Musicland used to carry everything they put out.

 

[Mark Talmadge]

David, and that's all I was trying to say. Someone made the statement that Amazon sells bootleg TV shows, some shows that may either be in the public domain or not available for purchase.

I'm just saying that some members have the wrong impression about Amazon and, in this instance, got Amazon Marketplace confused with "Amazon" the retailer.

Do sellers sell merchandise or media that isn't licensed? I'm sure they do, but, at least make the effort and differentiate. I'm not trying to criticize anyone here but, at least make an effort to get the understanding of this retailer right.

Amazon.com runs a service called Amazon Marketplace. While the merchandise that is sold by other people meaning "sellers" or "other independent retailers" the eonly thing that Amazon has to do with those sales is that they process the financial transaction. Amazon simply acts as a payment processor for Amazon Marketplace.

I should know, I've actually ordered items from legitimate sellers on Amazon Marketplace. After doing some quick research, you can discover who these sellers are.

I just didn't like the idea that someone thinks that Amazon is selling these bootleg titles through Amazon Marketplace by sellers. and I thought it was important that this was clarified.

In addition, when you buy an item from an Amazon Marketplace seller, even though its listed on Amazon.com Amazon doesn't have ability to verify each item that is sold by each seller. That payment is then directed into that sellers Amazon account by which that seller can transfer that payment directly to his or her bank account. The selling is similar to eBay. A simple look at a seller's feedback shows you this much.

 

[DeWilson]

You mean the one tha puts out DVDs with piss poor quality,beat up prints, laughable extras,misleading packaging and overall crummy content?

 

[David Levine]

You're still wrong on this one Mark. We all know what Amazon Marketplace is, and that isn't it. I buy stuff from Marketplace on a regular basis, and I buy stuff directly from Amazon even more frequently. I know the difference.

Amazon has been known to sell products (DIRECTLY THROUGH AMAZON) that are bootlegs. They just have. They are NOT marketplace, they are sold BY and shipped FROM Amazon, and you'll get free shipping on them if you are a PRIME member. Its not intentional, and they pull them when they are told, but it happens. It does.

I've dealt with it from a studio perspective when they were selling bootleg TV shows and movies of properties that we had the license to. And I'm going to say it one more time, these were products SOLD and SHIPPED by Amazon. Not Marketplace. We talked to Amazon about it, and they apologized because they didn't realize they were dealing with bootleggers. They have millions of products they sell, they don't have the resources to vet every item that crosses their path.

Not only that but sometimes bootleggers don't even know they are bootlegging. Its not uncommon for a totally legitimate independent studio to be licensed something and then it turns out the person licensing it didn't actually have the rights. Its usually solved by a simple "cease & desist" letter. Its very common and almost never results in a lawsuit - unless said company does not cease selling immediately.

It doesn't happen as often at Brick & Mortar stores, but it does happen. There were a number of legitimate Martial Arts titles that were not being carried by Musicland because they got them cheaper through a company that was bootlegging them. It went on for years despite at least a half dozen distributors complaining to the buyers and upper management.

 

[Mark Talmadge]

And I'm saying that Amazon does not receive bootleg DVD's of any titles.

If you're referring to sellers, then that is merchandise sold by sellers through Amazon Marketplace. If you're referring to DVD-r's, then that's not bootleg because those are copies that Amazon.com are authorized to sell in that format through their website.

You're making it sound like Amazon deliberately sells bootleg DVD's and that they don't know it. I work for the retailer industry and I can assure you that retailers don't accept DVD's from anyone.

DVD titles are checked in by whoever handles their media department. If it's a new release and the retailer had ordered a lot of one title, they are shipped in boxes/cases that are securely packaged shut with "Street Date" warning labels plastered around the shipping box.

IN the event of single DVD's, they are merely counted and visually inspected. Working for a large retailer, I know this from experience. I used to work for Target and I was in charge of the Electronics/Entertainment department and I can assure you that every DVD copy, every title is counted, to make sure that the proper number was received.

If a title looks suspicious, like it has been opened or has been packaged suspiciously, we were always told that they had to be reported.

Trust me, Amazon does not sell bootleg titles. If they did, then the MPAA would be suing them. I haven't heard of one instance where a complaint was filed or that Amazon was sued for selling bootleg merchandise.

If they were selling bootlegs, then that is something that should have been taken to the MPAA. It's funny that, of the hundreds and hundreds of dollars and replacement DVD sets I have ordered from Amazon that not a single one has been a bootleg title.

 

[TravisR]

When they are informed that they have a bootleg, they pull it. The bootlegs being sold there are very small titles (and not bootlegs that you find on the street of a current movie or a bootleg of a popular movie) so they slide underneath Amazon's radar unless someone informs them.