In case it wasn't abundantly clear, Apple's focus is on the consumer not on the pro / enthusiast / d (1 Viewer)

[DaveF]

Originally Posted by Carlo Medina

Since I use both Pro Tools and Logic (and will likely be buying one form of CS5) I think it's in my best interest to get a desktop machine. While I could be satisfied with the performance of an iMac, the lack of additional internal HDs really hurts that. For music creation they recommend using a separate HD, and I also want to set up mirror RAIDs for data backup, so those four drive bays in a Mac Pro are looking mighty enticing. I've finally decided to start saving up funds for the rumored six-core Mac Pro update this summer. Don't quite have the means to drop $3K on a MP and $2K on a MBP. One or the other.

If you need a physically separate,high-speed internal drive for music recording, ignore this. Otherwise, it sounds like you might be well served by an iMac with external harddrives and/or Drobo (or other RAID / NAS. Backup doesn't need to be fast, just reliable). And that top-end 27" iMac (i7) is cheaper than a "modest" Mac Pro without a monitor.


Add an iPad to complement your professional kit for casual, personal use.


Just some thoughts who knows nothing about your business

 

[Carlo_M]

Originally Posted by DaveF


Seriously, I would love to spend as little cash as possible, and I have entertained using an external + iMac solution. The only problem? I also want to run a mirror RAID setup to get piece of mind in case one HD dies. And I'd need mirror RAID for both my primary and secondary drives so that's four HDs total (which coincides nicely with the available HD bays in the Mac Pro). I don't want to run an iMac + 3 external Firewire HDs. Firewire is fast, but not as fast as an internal 3GBps SATA transfer rates.


I hear ya on the monitor. That 27" iMac screen is a beauty. I have an older Dell 20" that's doing quite well, but I will eventually want to upgrade that as well. If the upcoming 27" cinema display isn't obscene, I might buy that + the Mac Pro and use the 18 month financing + academic discount to ease the pain.


Also: going with a Mac Pro gives me the best chance at being able to upgrade to BD should Apple ever decide to support it. I know you can take an iMac apart, but yikes! I've taken my MBP apart several times (it's the older model that's really difficult to replace the HD but I've done it several times) and I build my own PCs so I'm not queasy about taking things apart, but something as solid and sexy as the iMac I would hesitate to tear apart in fear that I couldn't put it back together as well as it originally was...

 

[DaveF]

Right. So that falls in the category of:

Originally Posted by DaveF 30#post_3689724

If you need a physically separate,high-speed internal drive for music recording, ignore this

If you need RAID for backup, speed isn't generally the main criteria. But if you want full-speed mirroring, then a Mac Pro is definitely the only way to go.


I'm personally biased against the Mac Pro: the only expandable Mac tower is complete overkill for most people. My wife was going to buy one, thinking she needed a tower since she'd always had a tower to do her graphic design work. I quickly disabused her of that notion and saved $1000+ and still got a nice 24" iMac.

 

[Carlo_M]

Now Dave, I would never ignore one of your posts!


I just wanted to take a moment to explain why I was going this route in case others in a similar plight are wondering why the heck I'm opting for a tower when it does seem like an iMac would suit me just fine. And in truth, if I weren't so paranoid about losing my data, the iMac would suit me just fine.


And I agree, the Mac Pro is completely overkill for most people. The only person I know who has one really needs it (she's an animator, used to work for Dreamworks and is now freelance, but she uses those resource-heavy 3D illustration and animation programs). Even for me it will be overkill save for the backup aspect. However some day I may graduate from the crippled version of Pro Tools to the HD version that Brian mentioned. That requires PCIe expansion slots for additional Pro Tools hardware, and the Mac Pro is the only Mac being made that allows for expansion.


Of course that's a few years (and seven thousand dollars) away.

 

[DaveF]

No, no, I understand. I can see why an iMac isn't the best fit for your work, with the desire for dual, mirrored, internal drives. If you didn't want / need that, you might get along great with an iMac and external drives for backup.

 

[Sam Posten]

Good or bad, Apple may be changing to support more of a prosumer market?

http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/10/05/18/apple_scaling_final_cut_studio_apps_to_fit_prosumers.html

 

[Douglas Monce]

Originally Posted by Brian W. Ralston


Doug

 

[Douglas Monce]

Originally Posted by Sam Posten

Quote:


OK, How about Rick McCallum, his opinion mean anything to you? How about Shane Hurlbut?
http://www.zacuto.com/shootout

We are at the tip of the iceberg here Brian. I surely don't have the 'real' industry insight that you do, but I think anyone who is in the industry who blows this technology off as toys for wannabees is in danger of dinosauring themselves here. I've never seen any similar advance excite so many people in different but related fields. (Well, maybe the iPhone & iPad, but that's a bit different but still relevant!)

I remember similar blowoffs by stills photographers when the Digital Rebel came out for under $1k. Look where we are today, just a few short years later. Of course today the results from a pro are still going to blow away the results from an amateur regardless of what they are shooting with, but you have to admit that the advances that amateur stills shooters have gotten just by access to this low cost high quality technology are inarguable.
Sam

Sorry Sam didn't see that you had already posted the info on the DSLR vs. 35mm shoot out.


Doug

 

[Douglas Monce]

Not sure if you are aware of this or not, but parts of the film Red Tails is being shot with the Canon 7D digital SLR. This is a $100 million dollar movie produced by George Lucas.


Adobe Premiere is used by the BBC, and was used to edit Superman Returns among other films. These are real professional tools capable of professional results.


Doug

Originally Posted by Brian W. Ralston





1. The entertainment industry is an industrial process geared for profit. It is an assembly line business driven by profits and nothing more. While some filmmakers might care enough about their art to push the bounds of the technology they use to tell their stories...for the studios and networks, no one cares about that. If it will make them more money, They will care. If it will save them more money (which a lot of these products do)...they will begin to care. But it is because of the bottom line. This is also why the technologies used have long established roots. For example, would you allow a $40 Million dollar film you were responsible for (or heck...a $200 Million dollar film) rely on the tech support of someone at Adobe with an off the shelf product? Combine that issue with the others I have spoken about in terms of stability and specific features and compatibilities needed for Post production houses...and one can begin to see why the industry uses what they use.



Cheers Sam!

 

[Douglas Monce]

I happen to edit on Sony Vegas, which was the first NLE to offer a 64 bit version. I'm frequently working with people who are editing on FCP, and I can tell you it is a pain in the ass. My big problem with it is that FCP is SO inflexible. Footage MUST be in a QuickTime wrapper. Even if you capture directly from at HDV camera for instance, it must convert the footage before you can work with it. I am constantly having to help out people using FCP because they can't use some footage because it’s in the wrong format. They send it to me so I can put it in Vegas and convert it to some thing they can use. I keep telling them, why don't you just switch to Vegas or Premiere and you won't have these problems anymore. I’m really amazed that there is STILL no blu-ray support in FCP! Doug

Originally Posted by Sam Posten Two great posts! I agree with Carlo we're saying roughly the same thing from vastly different vantage points =) My original point stands tho: Steve Jobs specifically called Adobe out for being lazy in not converting their apps to 64 bit Cocoa. Adobe is now shipping more than twice as many 64 bit Pro apps than Apple is, and Apple shows no sign of fixing that any time soon. Sam

 

[Carlo_M]

To follow up on Sam's note about the next version of Premiere being more "prosumer" than "pro", MacRumors references the article from Apple Insider as well but follows it up with an email response from Jobs.


http://www.macrumors.com/2010/05/18/apple-refocusing-final-cut-pro-jobs-says-next-release-will-be-awesome/

Apple is said to be revamping their Final Cut Pro product to appeal to a more mainstream audience rather than high end professionals. After layoffs in 2007, Apple has reportedly reorganized the Final Cut Pro team under the lead of Randy Ubillos, the developer who completely redesigned iMovie in 2008. The new iMovie was drastic departure from the original iMovie codebase.

According to a report from AppleInsider, the goal of the new Final Cut Pro is to make it "more appealing and useful to the needs of prosumers".


Currently, Final Cut Pro is targeted at advanced professionals with a scaled down, less expensive Final Cut Express version sold to users who don't need all of its high end features. Because Apple now primarily sells the Express version, the company wants to rethink Final Cut Studio and scale its overall development to better fit the majority of its customers.


Steve Jobs was recently questioned about the fate of Final Cut Pro. MacSoda sent an email to Jobs asking about layoffs and the future of the application. Jobs replied:


We certainly do [care about Pro apps]. Folks who left were in support, not engineering. Next release will be awesome.

 

[DavidJ]

Originally Posted by Sam Posten 

Good or bad, Apple may be changing to support more of a prosumer market?

http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/10/05/18/apple_scaling_final_cut_studio_apps_to_fit_prosumers.html

This along with the Mac Rumors post has me worried. From a professional point of view, I have a hard time seeing this as a good thing.

 

[Sam Posten]

Dalrymple gets an on the record response from Apple denying these reports:

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-20005409-37.html?tag=newsLatestHeadlinesArea.0


"Professionals are going to love it"

 

[DavidJ]

Interesting read taking apart the Apple Insider report and their conclusions: http://www.philiphodgetts.com/2010/05/18/why-apple-insider-couldnt-be-more-wrong/

 

[Sam Posten]

In the words of The Iron Chef, it's OVAH!
http://www.newsweek.com/blogs/techtonic-shifts/2010/06/08/does-apple-s-iphone-4-signal-the-death-of-the-macintosh.html

 

[Carlo_M]

I think that's a bit alarmist. Apple is clearly touting itself as a mobile electronics company. So maybe the gist of that article is true for, say, the Mac Pro. I think they'll be making and supporting Macbooks and Macbook Pros for quite a while. Coincidentally those are also their best selling Macs. The iMacs, I'm less sure about. They also sell well (certainly much more than the Mac Pros) but they are desktops, and so don't fit into Jobs' proclaimed "Apple is the largest mobile electronics maker" slogan. But at the same time they use a lot of mobile parts, and they have put in a lot of improvements in both the iMac and Macbook/Pros lineups in the last few years.


Despite the fact there were no hardware announcements yesterday, neither of those product lines were due for a refresh. The only one that was (over)due was the Mac Pro. So the article may have a point for that model/line of Mac.


Of course, only time will tell if that article is prescient or alarmist.

 

[Ken Chan]

I'm not going to reward would seems like nonsense with clicks. As Jobs said at D8, not everyone needs a truck. And certainly you still need a Mac to write iOS apps.

 

[Carlo_M]

Now that would be ironic, Apple eliminating Mac development to focus solely on iOS, only to stymie [and piss off] the population who they want to write the apps! [/url]

And certainly you still need a Mac to write iOS apps.

[/quote]

 

[Sam Posten]

you can bet that on device development is coming faster than anyone believes.

 

[DaveF]

How fast do you believe it's coming? Faster than you believe? Logically, that means it's already here!