I'm getting totally DISGUSTED with collecting TV series on DVD

Discussion in 'TV on DVD and Blu-ray' started by Joe Lugoff, Jun 29, 2005.

  1. JohnMor

    JohnMor Producer
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    Joe, as you can see from my post, I understood your point of view, but was merely expressing my take. You and Chris seem to believe people with a differeing viewpoint should not express it. I think it's that attitude that leads threads to quickly deteriorate. Why open a discussion if all you want is people to agree with you?
     
  2. MatthewA

    MatthewA Lead Actor

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    Joe, you have hit the nail on the head.

    There's a film preservation act (recently renewed), why not a television preservation act that...

    A.) Protects original elements of television shows

    B.) Makes it unlawful to release cut versions.
     
  3. Wendy_L

    Wendy_L Supporting Actor

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    If they do that, then will that mean they just won't release certain shows on DVD?
     
  4. Jeff Ulmer

    Jeff Ulmer Producer

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    In a perfect world we would get newly remastered, full length episodes from pristine, restored masters, music intact. This isn't a perfect world. While I'm sure some people wouldn't mind paying $40-50 per episode in order to get that, the overwhelming majority won't. Releasing product is a compromise, since you can either do what it takes to please the purists - which means the costs escalate, or you can do your best to get a product that is superior to any previous version, but with some flaws, and that will actually sell. Does no one remember S1 of Mary Tyler moore, and how that show nearly got the axe due to poor sales at its original price?

    Consumers aren't going to pay what it would take to restore every TV show that ever existed. Sure, there are some releases that are just downright sloppy, but these are usually limited to a few studios, and it doesn't apply across the board.

    For example, not buying Northern Exposure for the music changes is just plain silly IMO. I just finished the third season, and while I'm sure that if I had an intact version to compare it to (which was never released on home video, other than a few episodes), I could pick out the changes, but otherwise they are transparent, and there are many signature pieces that were intact.

    At $20-30 for a full season set, I don't think we can demand everything. That isn't saying it wouldn't be better perfect, but there has to be some sense of reality in what our demands can be.
     
  5. Joe Lugoff

    Joe Lugoff Cinematographer

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    I think the comment that these things happen because people (spineless or otherwise) let them happen is true. Everything that happens only happens because people let it happen.

    I think things got bad here when you implied that there's something wrong with someone who, in a world full of terrible things, gets upset over something as trivial as DVDs.

    That's when things started to deteriorate.

    It should go without saying that I can be disgusted with lousy DVDs without thinking that they're worse than cancer.

    My point is, you didn't just "disagree," but got kind of snide in doing so. That's what I meant by "deteriorate."

    But, actually -- no one can possibly disagree with what I said, which is that I am disgusted and can no longer get excited about announcements of upcoming TV-on-DVD (such as Superman, Leave It to Beaver, Alfred Hitchcock and others I WAS looking forward to) because we've reached a point now where it's more likely that the sets will be botched in some way than that they won't.

    No one can possibly disagree with me, because I am disgusted, and that's a fact. There's no point in telling me I shouldn't be! I'll just respond with: You should be!
     
  6. Carlos Garcia

    Carlos Garcia Screenwriter

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    I send my message to the studios in a simple fashion. Shows that I love, but have removed original music, I choose to rent. Shows the I love, that have been properly released (in their entirety as originally aired) I choose to buy. If everyone who loved these shows did the same thing, I'm sure the studios would get the message and release them properly.
     
  7. JohnMor

    JohnMor Producer
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    No, Joe. It was before that when I was called spineless for making a purchase I wanted to make. That was both childish and uncalled for.

    In my initial post I clearly said I understand how you felt, and there was NOTHING snide in it or any later post. I sincerely meant what I said: I have better things to get upset about than edited TV shows on DVD. I NEVER said you or Chris shouldn't be disgusted. Ever. Please re-read my post. It was never said.

    What I DID SAY is that other people have other things they get upset about. And that is 100% true. Not snide, and not a "high-horse" comment. Just a fact. For me life is too short to be angry and frustrated over my DVDs. Like you, I take this hobby very seriously, and I intend to buy what I like and enjoy what I buy, warts and all.

    And I am not the one who edited I Love Lucy, time sped Wanted: Dead or Alive or released syndicated episodes of The Doris Day Show. Those decisions were made before the products ever came to market.
     
  8. Tony J Case

    Tony J Case Cinematographer

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    Lets see if I can say this tactfuly. . . . .

    What a fantastic load of crap. If it comes down to a nip or tuck because of the studios cant get the rights (for whatever reason), or me not getting the rest of the show, guess what wins. And frankly, I dont care what you and your high horse think of me for it.

    Hell - most of the time, the cuts are invisible? Quantum Leap? I only noticed the Al and Beth bit because it was hammered into my skull by fanbois. The rest of the show, I couldnt tell you a music replacement from a hole in the ground. The upcoming release of Revelation of the Daleks? It's either have the Restroation Team come up with a replacement for the Jimi Hendrix tune or not get the show at all. At least they took the time to try and come up with something that fits the show thematicly, and the time to make it sound like it should fit with the rest of the episode.

    That's the long way of saying that I'd much rather look at the glass half full than cutting off my nose to spite my face.
     
  9. Doug^Ch

    Doug^Ch Second Unit

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    Fortunately for most fans of TV on DVD there probably aren't more than 3% in the buying public that feel the way that you do. If there were, then we'd see damn few releases.
     
  10. Wendy_L

    Wendy_L Supporting Actor

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    Right, Doug. It sounds like Joe just needed to vent.

    I have to say, the one thing that bugs me is when a show has to change their theme song. I know that "Dawson's Creek" did and I also heard something about "Las Vegas" and "Joan of Arcadia"...which I just bought. My first blind buy! [​IMG]
     
  11. george kaplan

    george kaplan Executive Producer

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    For those of you supporting cut, edited, pan & scanned, sped-up, or otherwise artistically mutilated versions of these shows, perhaps you are unaware that the official mission statement of the HTF forum includes . So if someone is taking a hardline stance against such things, he's the one in line with forum rules. Those of you saying it's OK, are the ones out of step with this forum. Yes, you have the right to support such horrendous product, but to loudly proclaim your support for such things on a forum that is specifically opposed to them, and attack those who stand up for artistic integrity, seems like a strange thing to do.

    Just like there are limits on what can be said about religion or politics here, this is not a bastion of free speech, but rather a place where integrity of films and tv shows is put at a premium.
     
  12. ElijahS

    ElijahS Supporting Actor

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    I don't think that everyone who is defending episodes with cuts necessarily SUPPORTS DVDs being released with cuts and edits. I would prefer that every show I run be unedited, with one exception: I still love the route Warner Bros. has taken with Friends. The addition of up to several minutes of new material that creates an added incentive for DVD purchases is well worth the change from the "original" film elements.

    I love Scrubs, but didn't start watching the show until the third season, and I wanted to see the DVD release. The fact that apparently many musical cues were changed doesn't affect my personal viewing experience. However, if the same thing were to happen to, say, Alias, I would be up in arms over changes made to the show. I watched it from Episode 1 and wanted the episodes as I saw them on DVD. To those who want the same with their shows, I can sympathize. However, we have to face the facts: studios are not going to care one way or another with most of the releases made.

    Obviously, with the boom of TV-DVD material, studios are now wisely securing music rights (most of the time) for future releases, but it becomes much harder when older shows are factored in. Would you rather have one 10-second edit in the course of a season set, or the additional cost of, say, $10 because someone got a little more greedy? While a hardcore fan might say, "Who cares about the money?," most purchasers aren't going to want to spend more, or even realize that there is an edit.

    Not every show will make it onto DVD, at least in the foreseeable future, and with more current shows entering syndication, many of the older shows are being shelved. If a slightly edited DVD release can keep a fanbase for the show, it might at least let an awareness of the show sustain until we get into HD-DVD releases and all of these shows are rereleased.
     
  13. ElijahS

    ElijahS Supporting Actor

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    *Quick Note: There is also a big difference between one or two minor cuts (MTM S1) and a full-scale boat of changes (Dawson's Creek). Sony Pictures, for example, may be trying to have some of the lowest prices on their DVDs, but a few more dollars in SRP price from them would bring a better quality of episodes to viewers, and would bring their prices up to the same area as other studios.
     
  14. JohnMor

    JohnMor Producer
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    It's a shame that integrity isn't extended to fellow posters. If you can put a premium on the integrity of film, you should be able to do likewise with a human being, even if they have a differing opinion.
     
  15. JohnMor

    JohnMor Producer
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    Also from the HTF Mission Statement:

     
  16. John Stell

    John Stell Supporting Actor

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    The issue here seems to be blaming the consumer vs. blaming the studio. Studio's don't provide a detailed list on the outside of the box listing what's been cut, changed, etc. Therefore the consumer is going to know about changes only if they are either extremely familiar with the series or frequent message boards such as HTF.

    Attacking consumers as "spineless" is certainly insulting because it presumes all purchasers know about the changes and buy them anyway. I would guess most consumers don't know.

    I'm currently going through the first season of Murder, She Wrote and enjoying it. Somewhere it's been mentioned that maybe a song has been replaced. But there is no way I would ever be able to tell because I've seen the episodes 2 times each, at most.

    So please don't blame the consumer unless you have proof that the vast majority know they're buying "inferior" product and don't care. It's probably more like they just don't know.
     
  17. Jeff Willis

    Jeff Willis Producer

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    This is sure interesting reading on this one [​IMG]

    The post (so far) that I like the best is from "Jeff U." Thanks, J...you brought some of use back to "reality". We all have our "peeves" about what we don't want to see in a TV/DVD release. Mine happens to be the "cut ep" issue. I'm not too annoyed with any music flaws but I respect the ones that are. It all comes down to our personal choices when a set is released. "To buy or not to buy...that is the question". For me, if I know that a set is the "cut ep" version, it would make it a tough call to buy it. I'd have to decide based on that particular series. There' a couple of my "fanatic" series that I wouldn't buy if they contained any cut eps.



    Well said, Carlos. Some (me) sometimes think that studios don't read feedback and that it doesn't make a difference to them. I guess that's a mistake that I make. I'll always buy any series I'm interested in if I know beforehand if it contains the originally-aired uncut (video) eps.
     
  18. Steve Phillips

    Steve Phillips Screenwriter

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    The biggest issue for most of us is that in most cases the changes are not disclosed on the packaging. If they are, at least I can make an informed decision as to whether or not I want to spend my money.

    No one here thinks an edited DVD is as important as someone's life.

    When I buy a DVD, I expect the content to be uncut. When I buy I book, I expect all the pages to be included. When I open my paycheck, I expect all of my money to be there. (well, except for Uncle Sam's cut)

    Pretty simple.
     
  19. Tony J Case

    Tony J Case Cinematographer

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    Perfect - great. Whatever. Hey, if you guys want to pass up 20 perfectly good episodes because they cut 10 seconds from the 21st, then go right ahead and knock yourselves out. It aint my money, so it aint my decision. Just dont call me spineless along the way to the checkout stand because I'm willing to enjoy the rest of the show.

    What I buy and why is my business.
     
  20. MatthewA

    MatthewA Lead Actor

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    George, thank you for bringing that up. Doesn't the integrity of the original apply to TV shows as well as films?
     

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