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If I Were Toshiba... (1 Viewer)

Steve Tannehill

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I just ordered them directly from amazon.co.uk, and paid for their standard air mail shipping. It got here in less than one week.

Note: of the five albums released on April 10, three of them are 2-disc deluxe editions. They currently sell for GBP 10.99. Two of them are single discs that currently sell for GBP 8.99. The 17.5 percent VAT is removed on international orders, so the price is significantly less. Shipping was GBP 7.04.

Thus, since the discs are priced differently, if you order only one or two, your average price might increase. Still, a whole lot better than US$35!

- Steve
 

Andrew Bunk

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IMO, there are two things that would end this war decisively sooner than later.

1) - The porn industry picks one format and commits to it. Might sound funny, but that will likely be a deciding factor.

2) Two words - Star Wars. Yeah I know, Lucas will probably take forever, but if the Blu-Ray camp and Fox were able to convince Lucas to release on BD, and Fox remained BD exclusive, it would be game over for HD. The Star Wars films are one of the biggest reasons I built a home theater, and I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one.

I wouldn't even mind shelling out the money now for HD as well as buying a BD player, but I don't care how good it looks, $600+ is not worth it just to watch The Last Samurai, Serenity and Apollo 13. (I didn't mention Phantom Of The Opera or Doom purposely. :) )

Toshiba and WB would be wise to get ALL the Harry Potter films and Matrix films out on HD ASAP-that would sell machines. If Uni gets King Kong out soon, that's another big plus. Too bad Paramount would probably need Lucasfilm approval to put out Indiana Jones. It's these big A-list franchises that will sell the players.
 

Ryan-G

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//Warning, Long post ahead!

I don't think I agree with point 1 anymore, I think the Porn Industry has shifted over to the Internet enough that they no longer have any push to them in the video industry.

The Internet is the bulk of the Porn Industries sales now, no messy trips into an adult store or sneaking into a small Adult section in a video store, just point and click on the net in complete privacy.

As for number 2, I think it's a punt. One side has Star Wars, the other Harry Potter, with Lord of the Rings a distant third. I don't think one release or the other could shift the war this time around, as both sides have fairly heavy hitters. SW's represents the 30+ crowd, HP the 18-30 crowd, in terms of series with fanatical following.

Unfortunately, I don't see an easy out for this war in these terms. I wish that there were some sign, some release, some announcement that would spell doom for the other side. But I don't think there is.

In fact, I suspect there might even be one single way for BR to lose despite all it has going for it.

Sony's bleeding money, we know that now. Sony posted a half a billion loss in Q1, and the other three Quarters this year should follow suit. BR isn't going to mass quickly enough to recover costs no matter what, and PS3 will continue to be a drain on the company, especially as full production costs kick in.

Now, if MS and Toshiba can keep this format war going for a year to cast doubt on the outcome, they can impact BR revenue significantly enough to keep Sony from showing significant profit from BR. They just need about 18 months.

Sony has just now started sampling components for the PS3, which means three things.

1. They have no idea yet what kind of physical problems will arise, and if heat is as big an issue as I think it may be, PS3 may be delayed in order to derive methods to control it enough to release it.

2. The Industry is speculating that they won't have sufficient time to release this holiday season.

3. (More on this later) No Devs have working PS3 boxes to test on, which is a problem since no one has ever coded for a processor like Cell before in the Industry, and no one has any idea what problems might arise running the code on a working PS3.

If 1 or 2 happens, Sony is going to be eating half a billion dollar losses for at least 3 more quarters and possibly more. This is a major problem.

If there are problems with Game Development, or X-Box 360 has shed just enough doubt on the market, Sony's got a very real, very big problem on it's hands. Without the games, compelling games, $400 consoles(Or more) aren't going to sell. Sony's going to continue to eat losses without any meaningfull revenue stream.

Further worsening the situation is the PS2 line and all of it's revenue will dry up quickly approaching PS3's release, making Sony's losses even worse with that revenue stream shrinking. Support and Interest will drop and shift with PS3's impending release.

So, if MS and Toshiba manage to impact BR's rollout, and if events occur which impact PS3's rollout, Sony may very well go bankrupt. Sony isn't a big enough company to be able to afford losing half a billion dollars per quarter for 3 quarters, much less more than 3.

HD-DVD may yet win, just because Sony may yet bankrupt. With the originating company bankrupting, doubt will be placed on the format it created, and momentum will shift to Toshiba.
 

Ryan-G

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I don't know about that, while it was something interesting, the younger crowd seems much less interested in SW than they are HP, *especially* amongst the female portion.

I go to a major university, so I spend a good bit of time with the young'uns, while the males are a little more inclined towards SW, the females are almost completely dedicated to HP.

To the younger crowd SW is a older series, something they watched as a kid, kinda like King Kong and Godzilla are to my Generation, GenX.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying SW's has no draw, it has considerable draw. But the younger you get HP starts balancing out SWs, and once you're talking under 30 the females are very much more inclined to HP.

Heck, if you're under 23 you weren't even alive when the last of the OT was released, and if you're under 28 you probably wouldn't even remember it if you were alive. Consider that for a moment, everyone under the age of 28 was first exposed to SW either from a video cassette or on TV, and weren't even around for the original merchandising.

We're starting to border on generations that would consider SWs to be their parents movies...

Point being, under 30 SWs doesn't hold the draw to sway a format choice that it does over 30, while HP starts to pick up a little more draw, ending up with the whole thing becoming moot as at best it'll end up an age seperator.
 

DanFe

Second Unit
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Sep 15, 2003
Messages
421
Glad I can't afford either and will have to upgrade my TV to a new one or a projector to really watch. I anticipate BD to win this and I have no cares when it does because I'm looking at 2 years before I can buy anything.
 

Joseph Bolus

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On the subject of Star Wars impacting the format war: Forget about it!!

Lucas is on record as saying that he doesn't want Star Wars to be involved in a format war.

There is, of course, all kinds of speculation that a Star Wars Mega-Box will be released in November 2007 in order to help celebrate the 30th Anniversary of the theatrical release of the original Star Wars movie. This release (rumored at 18 discs!) will only go to SD-DVD; *or* it will be released to SD-DVD, HD-DVD, and Blu-ray. In other words it will either be released to *both* optical disc High Definition formats, or neither. (This is probably the reason Fox has stated that they might release "certain titles" to both formats.)

By the way, just for the record: With the Prequel Trilogy, the animated Clone Wars, and the forthcoming Star Wars TV series, it's my opinion that Lucas has done a good job in keeping the franchise's "youth appeal".


All three of the original Star Wars movies were re-released theatrically in 1997. In fact, my (then) 12 year old nephew got his first taste of Star Wars on the big screen during that period and has been a big Star Wars fan ever since!
 

Juan C

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Warner (and New Line) are releasing on both formats. Therefore, HP and LotR will also be on BD if they are on HD DVD.
 

Matt Thompson

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True, but it's also not much of a secret that Warner favors HD DVD, so it wouldn't be that surprising if they held once franchise back. Not saying it's going to happen (it'd be a stupid business decision), but it's a remote possibility.
 

Marc Colella

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Plus there's a good possibility that HP and LOTR will be out in HD-DVD either a) before BR or b) at least before BR players becomes anywhere near affordable.
 

StephenC

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Why do members get so caught up in this "war"? You would think someone was kicking their dog. Let's just enjoy the begining of a new era. If BD turns out to be better than HD-DVD we all win, right?

Also, this PS3 reasoning has me scratching my head. Is the PS2 what we think of when one talks about exceptional dvd players? Before the PS2 came out, I was amazed at the specs but upon arival, it was an inferior gaming and dvd machine, IMHO.

BTW, Is HBO showing all six SW films in June in HD? I know they have ROTS but I read on another forum all six were being shown but HBO does not have their June schedule posted.
 

Andrew Bunk

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Good points all.

One question I have is how directly controlled New Line is by Warner, if at all? I haven't seen any New Line titles on prospective release lists yet.

I will say LOTR on HD-DVD would be enough for me to buy in. I sometimes find myself wishing HD-DVD had the higher potential capacity, as I really don't care to support Sony. Hell I own a Toshiba RPTV-it's not like I have anything against them as a company.
 

PeterTHX

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Well, what about Panasonic? Or Samsung? Or Pioneer? Or Sharp? Or Philips? Or Mitsubishi....(the list goes on: the list of Blu-ray companies).
 

Paul_Scott

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if LOTR doesn't come out for this Christmas season, it will probably be until fall of '07 before we see it. That is a killer app title, and i would expect they would be accorded that higher profile season for release.
so if it isn't this year, who knows what the price of Bd players will be by that time in 07.

the thrust here being that the buy-in cost of the player is more than likely going to be the only thing holding Bd back as far as penetration goes (and any big dual format releases are going to hinge more on market penetration- if the sales of players lags behind, why bother with extra product?).

Also, i'm certain we won't be seeing 2nd generation units of anything this year.
the earliest i've heard for the next Tosh players is end of Q1 '07 or early Q2.
About the best i would expect from Bd later this year are a slight price drop and/or rebates- probably the later. whether those rebate(s) will be enough to make it attractive compared to still lesser priced HD DVD player...

one last point- on the impact of certain titles. I do believe that assuming Fox stays married to the Bd format for the next two years- it will probably be in Sonys interest to cut some kind of deal with them and LFL to get some kind of SW release out (bare bones of all the films at least). If Bd is struggling by end of '07, or being outsold 3 to 1 compared to HD DVD, SW exclusivity , combined with $500 (or under players- a sure bet by that point) would give the format a massive shot in the arm and more than likely give it parity.

I can easily see the advantage in this 'war' going back and forth like a tennis match for several years-
i expect at some point, Fox and Disney and Lions Gate will flip- while Bd burners will more than likely take hold as a PC utility.
 

Andrew Bunk

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True, but Sony will still get licensing money. I love Pioneer, and if I buy BD that I'll almost certainly be the brand I go with.
 

Marc Colella

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I think his point is that by supporting BR you'll be supporting Sony, regardless of which manufacturer's player you buy. Not to mention that so far the cheapest player is at around $1000 USD.
 

PeterTHX

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Well, if you bought a CD player, you "supported" Sony. If you bought a DVD player, you "supported" Sony.

Really, now. You would snub something better because Sony potentially gets some kind of royalty payment? The Blu-ray group contributed MANY different things. Matsushita among them.
 

Marc Colella

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Well there was no equivelent format to CD or DVD (DIVX doesn't count IMO because of it's limitatoins). It's easy to snub Sony's BR, since it won't be much better than HD-DVD and I'd still have to wait for it's release at which point I get the priveledge of paying 2x the price for the player. Maybe it's not a snub, but more of an educated non-purchase.
 

Dan Hinson

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I thought LG has already announced that a dual-format player is in the works.

Indeed, if dual-formats players became the "norm," I can see a scenario where both formats could survive side-by-side for a very long time.
 

Mary M S

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After reading much lately: some general feelings about HD disc launch and a focused concern for movement in the shadows, my feelings apply to Toshiba (first strike) & Sony.
Future proof is a LOL in the industry in recent years, battles in CP and format, Analog to Digital BC conversion, and there is not a electronics AV firm or studio out there who want anything we own to last a near a decade. I love HD with a passion, wish to see it trickle down till even “BUT WAIT” type products and 3am infomercials (all content) is there, but I am not going to join in this game.

I am truly happy and excited for all purchasers in the next 1 ½ yrs who will be enjoying the new discs, and keeping each other busy in turf wars, but I intend to remain in the 3rd camp of {aware of early-adopter opportunities} avoider.

My gut tells me it will be 24 months before one side or other starts shutting it down, and I think that Bd will remain.

Factoring trying to perceive the workings of the middle road General America mindset who still think “HD” and “Digital” are one & the same thing; whose desire to “have it” due to sports broadcasting head-of-household attention-grabbing is just now gaining momentum beyond a trickle-over-the-dam. I have one bit of advice for Toshiba, they need to bear down on heavy name recognition PR advertisements.

It’s a tiny thing in the chain (like a nail) but too many of those I know who still don’t understand P&S Vs Widescreen know the word: Bluetooth [sounds like Blu-Ray]....and it is the little things which add up in market recognition.

Have been recently attempting to follow threads now that HD DVD has launched. I had small prior interest in even reading the subject but avoided it due to a high level of frustration that universally achieving levels of resolution I have always desired to become PQ minimums 24/7 in broadcasting and standalone media would again delay. Crippled and throttled by confusion and division and jockeying to attempt to create future life of product income-generating fees by this market.

In the AV forums I watch for posters who have heavy vested interests on the topic in question, what I read scares me. I see a two prong push: protect content by whatever method necessary regardless of cost and debilitating effects to consumers and ramp-convert Home Theater to a PC business model.

I’m not going to help by buying early, indeed hope that the financial hit taken in the industry causes future friendlier and less intrusive versions of products to be developed.

I will not play a part in slowly morphing Home theater into the mess and utter frustration that is my networked PC. Data mining is a huge income generator and I don’t want the rampant abuses crippling and slowing computer systems to become a part of my daily AV life.

I own the HD TIVO IMO the best machine ever built in STB’s. Yet just when D* finally provides a unit, which has started to mature into a higher level of reliability / performance and feature set; they throttle the trend and start over in-house. I am getting so tired of HD-lite, the water torture on stone “nag screen to phone home” and D* reactivating channels I have removed from my Guide, with increasing length contract terms; that my next provider, when this unit dies, will not be D*
Little things add up and D* will have driven me to try alternatives by the wear & tear of daily inconveniences and annoying policy implementation.

I will not support any technology advances, which come with the price of added future or current interactive control by providers. I will not buy units that require phone connection OR units which can be disabled or crippled (de-rezzed/de-keyed) via software/hardware, even with a limp “promise” that the capability built-in will not be used.

My next purchase will be slanted towards finding a good product via any other manuf. before SONY due solely to the rootkit stunt. (and I own a lot of Sony!)

Arron (?) had a post in the HDMI thread which rang clearest to me: re Trojan horses. This whole HD disc advance in its projected implementation has far too wolfish a feel to it. I do not like be manipulated, and the carrot is not worth the price, I will dig in my heels and stay off the path as it is headed, till it has ceased to exist choked by brambles or is the only road left open.

I see many consumers stretching budgets and justifying purchases of larger displays now that they have left “big box” territory and are attractive in a finally ‘getting there’ PQ quality sense. But I perceive a huge market backlash coming. I sense that industry have probably overstepped in hoping to shorten built life-span durability and compatibility to generate quicker replacement-required turnarounds.
Microprocessors displays which average America ‘expects’ to last like their old CRT’s will have shown their purpose-built subpar longevity records at around the same time the A cutoff hits. Consumers will shy like the devil from any manuf. who records the lowest averages or builds in the largest amount of inconveniences and requirements/controls. I expect consumers’ horror stories increasing due to de-activation, flag-type, chip controls reading and/or handshake malfunctions occurring, along with products dead-in-the water quicker than expected under these current trends. Within the next decade these ‘effect’s will become felt by the General P. who want to justify a purchase overstepping and hurtful to their budget, simply wanting to come home to single-button-push coach-potato “Timex: takes a licking keeps on ticking” escapism.
I feel sorry for manufacturers as they wake the sleeping beast (J6P).
 

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