I know it's only a rumor, but.....Genesis reformed??

Discussion in 'Music' started by Danny Tse, Mar 17, 2004.

  1. gene c

    gene c Producer

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2003
    Messages:
    5,844
    Likes Received:
    48
    Location:
    Bay area, Ca
    Real Name:
    Gene
    I agree with both of you. Everyone seems to have great respect for Hackett but I never hear anyone bring up his solo stuff around here. Please Don't Touch is a great album and Cured is required listening on Sunday morning while eating a muffin and reading the paper. A bit different from Genesis, but just as good. Anyone else have any of his stuff? As for Genesis reforming, I'm not too excited. They were moving in a different direction near the end (as did Phil's solo career) and I wouldn't expect that to change much now. If it does, then I'll pay more attention.
     
  2. Colin Jacobson

    Colin Jacobson Producer

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2000
    Messages:
    5,928
    Likes Received:
    498


    No. In fact, I have no concept what you mean by it. Is this an implication that Mike's much more talented than Phil?
     
  3. Colin Jacobson

    Colin Jacobson Producer

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2000
    Messages:
    5,928
    Likes Received:
    498


    Or even better: Ringo supporting Paul. (Mick's solo career wasn't really any more successful than Keith's, but obviously Phil sold a jillion more records than Mike. Kinda fits with Paul and Ringo...)
     
  4. andrew markworthy

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 1999
    Messages:
    4,762
    Likes Received:
    11

    Er, yes.

    Things may be different in the USA, but over here in Genesis's home country, admitting to liking Phil Collins is immediate social death in most civilised circles. On the other hand, Mike and the Mechanics are respected as an unpretentious competent AOR band.
     
  5. Mike Broadman

    Mike Broadman Producer

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2001
    Messages:
    4,951
    Likes Received:
    1
    Gene, I tried listening to some solo Hackett a while back. I remember hearing Voyage of the Accolyte but it sounded like a weak version of Genesis so it felt cheap (even though I like Chris Squire's first solo album which is a cheap version of Yes, so I'm inconsistent). Then I heard an album where he did some Genesis songs, it was OK, but not worth buying (I generally don't like tributes and revisits of that sort). And I heard something else that had some decent music but some weird vocals that put me off.
    I've heard some of his recent stuff is good. He's a brilliant guitarist and if he has stuff that focuses on that I would be interested.

    Funny thing about watching Genesis' Behing the Music on VH1 (yes, they did have one, and it was great) was that the band didn't feel a great loss when Hackett left and were even kind of relieved, unlike the devestation of losing Gabriel or even Anthony Phillips. But IMO, the quality of the music declined seriously right after he left, improved after Phillips left (though I'm sure it would have improved had he stayed) and stayed the same when Gabriel left.


    Andrew, I would argue that talent isn't about who's music you like more, but who has the ability to make the kind of music he wants. Collins wanted to make accessible, mass-market pop and was damn good at it. I would also contend that, when he wants to be, he's a better drummer than Rutherford is a guitar/bass player.

    I know Collins ain't cool, but I like Collins' first record for what it is- well crafted, great sounding pop. I tried listening to the Mechanics and it bored me to tears. Even if Collins is cheesy, at least that has entertainment value (though I can't tolerate him now).
     
  6. Kevin C Brown

    Kevin C Brown Producer

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2000
    Messages:
    5,712
    Likes Received:
    0
    Anyone ever listen to Mike Rutherford's Smallcreeps Day? Excellent stuff.

    I actually like the 1st two Phil Collins solo discs. But then he got into that danceable stuff for the 3rd one, and that was it for me.
     
  7. gene c

    gene c Producer

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2003
    Messages:
    5,844
    Likes Received:
    48
    Location:
    Bay area, Ca
    Real Name:
    Gene
    There are some weird vocals on the two I mentioned, especially Cured. I have two other cd's of his including Voyage... but after a couple of listens, nothing grabbed me. Some of his solo stuff is a little "out there". As for Collins, his Live In Paris concert is very good technically/performance wise but the material is just so-so. After what he did with Genesis, I just can't accept him as a pop star. Might be my loss but that's the way it is. And maybe that's what Hackett did. Went too far the other way. Didn't he leave Genesis because he thought they were going too main stream? Maybe Phil went to right field, and took Genesis with him, and Steve went to left. Waaaay out to left!
     
  8. Colin Jacobson

    Colin Jacobson Producer

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2000
    Messages:
    5,928
    Likes Received:
    498


    Well, SOMEBODY in England must like him or he wouldn't be playing arenas there. I'm not a big Phil fan, but he's produced some good solo work? Mike &TM? No thanks - THEY'RE the ones I think are deathly dull...
     
  9. John Geelan

    John Geelan Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2000
    Messages:
    1,087
    Likes Received:
    0
    No doubt Phil's star has fallen but for many years he was a pretty big star here in the US.

    I remember Live Aid where he flew between to continents to handle the drums in one day. He got to play with the reformed Led Zeppelin for one set.

    You gotta give Phil his due....he did make Genesis a worldwide phenom even though they were that dreaded "progressive rock".

    His work with Brand X was also excellent.

    Its easy to bash him these days.
     
  10. andrew markworthy

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 1999
    Messages:
    4,762
    Likes Received:
    11

    Yes, but then a lot of Brits would go to a Cliff Richard or Chris de Burgh concert as well. [​IMG]

    I think I was a bit unfair to Mr Collins in the first post. All I was trying to say was that I think that Mike and The Mechanics' work is of a higher quality and that PC is considered rather 'dated' by a lot of Brits (I think this may have something to do with over-exposure in the Brit media a few years ago). Personally, I don't think he's awful, just not as good.
     
  11. Mike Broadman

    Mike Broadman Producer

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2001
    Messages:
    4,951
    Likes Received:
    1


    Hackett left Genesis because he felt his ideas were being ignored by the other three, and as they will now attest, he was right. They never really accepted him as a writer beyond a few contributions here and there. I guess they always kind of though of him as a hired gun because he was brought in to replace a founding member and close friend in Anthony Phillips.
     
  12. Andrew 'Ange Hamm' Hamm

    Andrew 'Ange Hamm' Hamm Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 1999
    Messages:
    901
    Likes Received:
    0
    Re: Hackett...

    Brilliant, brilliant musician. Dating from And Then There Were Three, Hackett's is the most Genesis-like music of any of the group, including the three still calling themselves "Genesis." Vastly underappreciated on this side of the pond. I agree that Acolyte is a bit weak, but the must-have Hackett album is Please Don't Touch, which features Steve Walsh and Richie Havens on vocals.


    It's a shame Collins has been so commercially successful, because I think he's one of those guys whose fame makes us take him for granted. Keeping in mind that I haven't bought a Phil Collins album since about 1990, I personally think he's one of the best pure songcrafters of his generation. He just seems to be able to pull out whatever he wants to whenever he wants to. His first two albums are seminal works of the 1980s, especially Face Value, which is on par with some of Gabriel's better work. But I really got Phil Collins when I saw Tarzan. That is an amazing score, just amazing. The melodies, the structure, everything. And Brother Bear, which I just saw a couple weeks ago, is very nearly as good.

    Again, I haven't purchased a PC album in ages. It's just not what I'm into now. And hating on the guy because he chooses to record pop is understandable, I guess, but what he chooses to make commercially and what his abilities as a musician are may not be one and the same. Regarding his drum skills, give Selling England by the Pound, Foxtrot, A Trick of the Tail, and his first few solo albums a close listen. If there is a more skilled rock drummer than Collins, I haven't heard him. And I've heard a lot of very good drummers.

    Phil Collins is one of the most enigmatic figures in all of music, and has been for over 20 years. When he wants to bust out the "art" music, he floors me. The fact that he doesn't do it terribly often keeps me away from the rest of his work.

    Oh, and Collins is a better drummer in his sleep than Mike Rutherford is a bassist or guitarist on his best day. No slight intended to Rutherford, who does very tasteful work that serves the song very well. But it's just true.
     
  13. Danny Tse

    Danny Tse Producer

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2000
    Messages:
    3,185
    Likes Received:
    0


    That happened to PC here in the States as well. Plus, his recent solo albums are boring (PC's latest solo album sold just 350,000 copies here in the States). I suppose that's what happens when getting over-exposed.
     
  14. ChrisDixon

    ChrisDixon Second Unit

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2001
    Messages:
    306
    Likes Received:
    0
    A few responses to be above from a long-time, big-time Genesis fan:

    1. I agree about Steve Hackett. He was more important to the band than they admitted, but in a way, I'm glad he left because he produced some great solo stuff that we may not have had. I was lucky enough to see him live in two very different settings: full band, electric headliner show at NEARFest 2002, and last summer I saw him do a delicious solo accoustic instrumental show at Borders Books of all places. He was so close, I literally could have kicked him in the knee if I extended my leg. Both were outstanding!

    2. To the person that complained about Phil's vocal tricks on Seconds Out, I am right there with you! I can't even listen to that version of "down down down down on Broadway". Also, the admittedly mixed out a lot of Hackett's parts when he left. There are so many better live recordings of the band.

    3. To the reunion rumors: I'll believe it when I see it. I remember when radio stations were reporting a Genesis/Gabriel reunion tour in the mid-90s. It turned out to all come from a little collaboration on the new version of Carpet Crawlers. Like others have said, I'd like to see any incarnation of the band.

    Chris
     
  15. Mike Broadman

    Mike Broadman Producer

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2001
    Messages:
    4,951
    Likes Received:
    1
    Collins' drumming: one of the biggest musical shockers of my life.

    Before discovering old-school Genesis, I was vaguely aware that he could play drums. I thought of him as a singer who also happened to play a little drums, like many lead singers who strum a guitar or something.

    When I heard Foxtrot, I was in shock. And then Selling England... wow. Not to mention Brand X. He's doing polyrhythms, real tasty cymbal work- really, really great. Love that Apocolypse in 9/8 groove.
     
  16. Danny Tse

    Danny Tse Producer

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2000
    Messages:
    3,185
    Likes Received:
    0
    It's time to stir the old "Genesis reunion" pot....

    Posted by Phil Collins himself on 8/17/2005 at his official website's forum....


    Nothing really new. You can read Phil's answers to other questions as well by clicking
    here.

    Steve Hackett said in a recent interview that he would entertain the "reunion" idea.
     
  17. Andrew 'Ange Hamm' Hamm

    Andrew 'Ange Hamm' Hamm Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 1999
    Messages:
    901
    Likes Received:
    0
    I have been getting pretty heavily into Hackett's solo career the past few months. I highly recommend going out and getting the Once Above a Time live DVD to see where he is right now. To Watch the Storms is a great album, as well. In addition to featuring some of the best of his solo work, the concert features a few very good Genesis tunes, including a version of "Blood on the Rooftops" that absolutely smokes the studio cut.

    Interestingly enough, Hackett is pretty big as a solo artist in the UK. He's touring the US for the first time in decades this year.
     
  18. Danny Tse

    Danny Tse Producer

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2000
    Messages:
    3,185
    Likes Received:
    0
    OK, this time the news is from Steve Hackett....

    http://www.allheadlinenews.com/articles/7000474269


    Nick Davis mentioned that a clearer picture regarding the pending SACD releases will emerge in about a month. Maybe the band will get together for several shows to promote those SACDs.

    Hey, this year saw Cream and Pink Floyd performed in concert. You never know....
     
  19. ChrisDixon

    ChrisDixon Second Unit

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2001
    Messages:
    306
    Likes Received:
    0
    Their album Dodo, huh? Must be extinct... Anyway, I've heard this way too many times to get excited until I hear something really *from* a band member. Not just a quote that has yet to be verified.

    Chris
     
  20. Danny Tse

    Danny Tse Producer

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2000
    Messages:
    3,185
    Likes Received:
    0

    Quoted from Steve Hackett interview with Chicago Sun-Times dated 10/14/2005.

    Also rumors of meeting between Genesis members on November 20th. Maybe do several shows to promote hi-rez Genesis releases?
     

Share This Page