I have two words for you...Bass Management UPDATED! (1 Viewer)

[Todd Hochard]

5.5db!!!! That's not exactly peanuts. So are the guys like Obi and Vince trying to tell me that the DTS DVD is supposed to have that much lower of an LFE signal than an old VHS copy?

Did you forget that DVD is recorded at a level that is, on average, 4db lower than other sources?
That pretty much covers the difference.
For the life of me, I can't understand, for movies, why anyone would have their speakers set to LARGE. With VERY, VERY few exceptions, there aren't really any speakers out there that are as good as a relatively decent sub at reproducing low bass.
Why do so many insist that "a boy do a man's job," so to speak?
Todd

 

[Bill Lucas]

Todd,
You took the words out of my mouth. nuff said!

 

[Rob L]

For the life of me, I can't understand, for movies, why anyone would have their speakers set to LARGE. With VERY, VERY few exceptions, there aren't really any speakers out there that are as good as a relatively decent sub at reproducing low bass.

I've kind of been wondering that myself. I have mains that can produce some pretty good bass but I have them set to small and have my sub do all the

 

[FredHD]

I hope the comment about speakers set at large wasn't directed to me. As I said, in my experiement, AS ALWAYS, I had all my speakers set to small. If there is in fact no problem with my disc, I'm just really disappointed by the way they mixed it. After doing my experiment with JP, I popped in 3 other DVDs that provided way better LFE tracks with a lot less action going on than in JP. Sure, I can turn my LFE signal up to make things better, but should I have to do that with a film that is known for it's great soundtrack?
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"It's dangerous enough just being in the water with a shark. But when you start messing with the shark, you're really getting yourself in trouble."
-Me

 

[Jeff]

Folks, doesn't the very fact that you have to tinker with your bass management settings at all suggest to you that there is something wrong with the DVD??????????????

 

[Robert George]

I said...
"It has been suggested (but not confirmed) that the master Universal used for the JP/LW DVDs was mixed with some of the LFE mixed into the left/right main channels to improve the 2-channel downmix."
To which Mike G replied...
"This makes no sense. DTS DVDs have two SEPARATE tracks - DD 2.0 and DTS 5.1. Why would they have a version to improve a 2-channel downmix when DTS doesn't downmix to DD 2.0 in the first place?! People aren't complaining about LW."
Actually, Mike, it make perfect sense. You see, I reported earlier that the dts and Dolby Digital tracks were encoded from the same 6-track master that was prepared by Universal specifically for DVD. If what has been unofficially reported were true, that the master was re-conformed to optimize the 2-channel downmix, then that same master would have been used for the dts encoding. The fact that the dts disc also carries a Dolby Digital 2.0 Pro-Logic track has nothing to do with what was done for the 5.1 track. That 2.0 track is there to meet the specifications of the DVD format. Nothing more.
Robert

 

[Rob L]

I sure hope future Universal discs are not this way. Sure glad I didn't pre-order U-571, from now on I'll be renting before ordering - no more pre-orders on Universal titles for me.

Huh?
Why do people always over-react when there is a problem? So maybe the JP DVD is actually messed up. So what? What does that have to do with every other Universal title? Why assume Universal might all of a sudden not be able to produce a good DVD from now on?
The same type of mentality happened with the Dreamcast when WSB2K1 came out and people were disappointed. People were going on about how they'd never buy a Sega sports game again and others went on about how they had doubts about future games like NFL2K1.
Mistakes happen. If Universal did actually mess up then oh well, it's just one DVD. Move on.
Imagine what would happen if people lost faith in companies when they produced something of low quality. Ford & GM would not be in business, every airline that had a crash would be out of business...pretty much every company would be out of business sicne every company has fu*ked up at one point in time.

 

[Gordon St Pierre]

quote:
So here's what fixed it...I actually set my receiver's subwoofer setting to "NO"! By doing so, it kicked the bass up several notches. It seems that by merely setting the subwoofer setting to yes, automatically switched on some type of internal filtering (that proved to be ineffective). Ever since, my bass reproduction has been great in everything I watch. This was all done ~6 months ago
After reading this I thought this Guy was crazy but I tried it anyway & HOLY CRAP ! I almost broke all my windows when I cued up Track 11 to give it a Listen...Strange but true ..Maybe this is just a Kenwood (not the Moderator) thing But Telling the Reciever there is no Sub ..Makes My Sub sound Richer & fuller than ever ...I'm Happy Going to try out some other movies Now
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Ttiberius
Link Removed

 

[Mike_G]

Rob,
Point taken. The problem is that people use the word "master" a little too easily. The DD "master", the DTS "master". The original uncompressed 6-track "master". I see what you're saying now. Still not convinced enough to try it on my ssytem though .
Mike

 

[WilliamC]

Rob.

Mistakes happen. If Universal did actually mess up then oh well, it's just one DVD. Move on.

Sure I'll move on when they fix it, if there is a problem. If not refund my money and I'll move on without another word said. Otherwise I ain't moving. Why no move on now? Because I paid good money for this DVD that's why. If I knew it would be like this i would not have bought it. i would have saved my money for another DVD that's better. A few come to mind titan A.E., pitch black, MI2, etc...
Mistakes do happen but they should be corrected. We can't just accept that and move on no matter what it is. The money you spend on one DVD may mean nothing to you (I don't know) but It sure means something to me. To get JP I had to sacrafice buying another title.

 

[DanR]

Who the hell is "Kenwood"?
Regards,
Dan

 

[Victor Nugent]

DanR,
"Kenwood" is a mod on the DVD Talk forum.

 

[Mark McLeod]

I just played JP in DTS in it's entirety and thanks to the tweaks I made based on people's suggestions here on this thread, it sounded great. I changed my fronts to small, and sent all bass below 111hz to the subwoofer.
I had the volume lower then I did last night when I was testing it and the bass was much more present.
Sure I wish I didn't have to change the settings from what I usually use, but atleast the problem was fixable.
Stop complaining and make a few changes and enjoy an otherwise great DVD

 

[Max Leung]

Heh, the only complaint I have left is the harshness and crackling in the dialog. And the overall sound did have a bit of an "overly digital" feel to it, like it was poorly mastered...uneven, unnatural sounding, almost like listening to a set of Bose speakers at high volume...very fatiguing.
Other movie releases on DVD rarely have this type of sound...for example, The Insider has an amazing soundtrack...very smooth, natural, clear sound, in all areas: dialog, music, ambient effects...almost perfect.
I would say, out of my entire collection of 150 discs, JP's sound quality would rank somewhere in the bottom quarter. Of course, most of my discs sound very very good, so it is kind of hard to quantify its rank. I can say that Casablanca and The Big Sleep have very clear dialog, smoother than JPs in fact.
This is all IMHO of course. I don't have an LD player, so I don't have much choice...own Jurassic Park on DVD with its soundtrack shortcomings, or have nothing at all.

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Max Leung

 

[Robert George]

Folks, doesn't the very fact that you have to tinker with your bass management settings at all suggest to you that there is something wrong with the DVD??????????????

No. It does suggest something else entirely, however.
So, here's the question. Who do you think is most likely to screw something up? A sound engineer who makes his living mastering movie soundtracks for a major motion picture studio or someone with no technical background who has setup his own audio system?
Is that your final answer?

 

[Steve Schaffer]

I have a Yamaha RXV-795 receiver, and have always set all speakers to small, LFE output to Sub, and calibrated mains, center, and surrounds to 75db, sub to 85db. With my setup this results in a subwoofer setting of -12db. I have DD LFE set to 0db. I always assumed that DTS LFE should be set at the same level as DD LFE.
Some of the previous posts suggest this is not the case, that DTS LFE should be set higher. I don't have a DTS test disc, so can't determine this for myself.
Could anyone tell me if my LFE setting for DTS should be higher than that for DD, and if so, by how much (assuming this is part of the DTS spec and not something that's going to vary according to my equipment?) In other words, given an identical subwoofer level, how much if any higher should the DTS LFE level be than the DD LFE level.
I'm so confused!!!!
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Steve S.
I prefer not to push the subwoofers until they're properly run in.

 

[Jeff]

George, so what you are saying is, this could be the future of DVD's. Continuously having to change your bass management for each title. If more DVD's come out like this, I'll have to start making a database with the titles and what setup is best for each of them.
Jeff

 

[Todd Hochard]

So, here's the question. Who do you think is most likely to screw something up? A sound engineer who makes his living mastering movie soundtracks for a major motion picture studio or someone with no technical background who has setup his own audio system?

Touche! Exactly the point.
You don't have to mess with bass management for each title. IMO, all speakers set to small, bass below 80Hz to the sub. Leave it. Period.
If it doesn't sound right, it's either:
a. the particular combination of speakers you've chosen.
b. How the above responds in YOUR room.
Careful selection and tuning will take care of these issues.
Todd

 

[Mike_G]

So, here's the question. Who do you think is most likely to screw something up? A sound engineer who makes his living mastering movie soundtracks for a major motion picture studio or someone with no technical background who has setup his own audio system?

True. However, I can make a VERY long list of screwups by people over the years with respect to laserdisc and DVD, the most current and prominent is the subtitle issue on multiple DVDs from multiple companies. Don't even get me started on some of the THX laserdiscs. Can you say "Stargate"?
Mike

 

[Jeff Bamberger]

Steve said:

I have a Yamaha RXV-795 receiver, and have always set all speakers to small, LFE output to Sub, and calibrated mains, center, and surrounds to 75db, sub to 85db. With my setup this results in a subwoofer setting of -12db. I have DD LFE set to 0db. I always assumed that DTS LFE should be set at the same level as DD LFE.
Some of the previous posts suggest this is not the case, that DTS LFE should be set higher. I don't have a DTS test disc, so can't determine this for myself.
Could anyone tell me if my LFE setting for DTS should be higher than that for DD, and if so, by how much (assuming this is part of the DTS spec and not something that's going to vary according to my equipment?) In other words, given an identical subwoofer level, how much if any higher should the DTS LFE level be than the DD LFE level.
I'm so confused!!!!

I want to add to Steve's questions. I too have a Yammie 795 with my bass management the same.
Now, the "subwoofer" level you set with test tones is for any signal going to the subwoofer out....correct?
Ok....next...the DTS (and even DD) LFE setting boosts (or lowers) the actual LFE signal and not all bass going to the subwoofer out....correct???? IF you boost LFE you only boost what is in that channel, exclusive of any additional boost you would get by boosting the "subwoofer" level, right?
IF these assumptions are correct then I have a couple pf final questions:
1) Assuming my presumption about the LFE, would it not be better, in the case of the JP hysteria, to boost the "subwoofer" level and not the LFE setting (Steve's question of DTS to DD LFE settings notwithstanding)? This way you boost all bass being sent to the sub and not just signals in the LFE?
2) On the yammies, the DD LFE can be set -20 to 0. The
DTS can be set -10 to +10. Why the difference (I think I know but I want to hear what you all say)?
3) And back to Steve's question, assuming I boost the sub for JP, say +6dbs, should I also be pushing the DTS LFE up a bit too, in the JP case, and for everything else in general? Note, I have been very happy with my calibrated settings and have no issues regarding where things are set.