DVD Review HTF Review: The Black Hole (1 Viewer)

[GeorgePaul]

Hi everyone! First time poster here...posting on the recent review of my FAVORITE film from childhood.

This should be a prime candidate for a Disney remake, no doubt...but obviously an important part of the entire premise--Reinhardt's contention that black holes are long, dark tunnels to somewhere else in the universe, the Einstein/Rosenbridge--would have to be re-examined or dumped entirely. At least, this is true if you are an adherent to Stephen Hawking's new findings. Otherwise, Reinhardt would be dismissed as a loon from the get-go.

What a film that almost was great. Get some decent writers on this project, find a new--probably more fantastical--angle with the black hole, and you have yourself a potentially fruitful remake. But the heroes would have to pull back at the end, somehow--Captain Holland would just be able to escape, over the desires of the rest of the crew, only to be confirmed right as the mangled remnants of the Cygnus are spewed back out into the void.

 

[Andrew Priest]

No, surely the black hole as a conduit to some other place, or even some other universe, must remain. Otherwise why use the black hole at all? In The Black Hole the black hole literally is that undiscover'd country from whose bourne, no traveller returns. In other words the black hole is death.

And it's not like black holes aren't still mysterious wells into which we can not peer. All the math and theory in the world still can't get around the basic issue that we can not actually look into a black hole. I'm sure one could tweak it slightly as to suggest that somehow a craft properly equipped could use the distortion of space at the singularity itself to travel to another universe entirely. It's only fiction after all. What conclusive proof drawn from the study of said singularity could one offer to counter the idea?

No, as a metaphor for death and the unknown, the unknowable, the black hole still works just fine. As for how to actually end it. I may be a bad choice since I like the original ending well enough. It's fitting that after passing through the black hole they find themselves in some new world. They pass through the curtain of death and into a brave new world. A world of endless possibility.

To an extent I'd argue that how this is seen will depend on the person watching it. I myself actually consider the ending to be upbeat. I like to believe that this new place they found themselves in is one of said endless possibility. I'm not sure that spelling out said possibility would be any better than, say, the ending of The Shawshank Redemption.

Of course one approach would be to end it before they exit the black hole. So as to never reveal what lies on the other side of the curtain. But I still prefer the original with their 'birth' into a new world and then just leaving the rest up to the audience’s imagination.

Perhaps just some slight indication that this is indeed a new universe and that there is something there. Nothing too blatant but some slight indication that they aren't just stranded in the middle of nowhere but that there is something out there.

 

[Keith I]

It's just a nice, simple, entertaining movie. Creepy, great sets, atmospheric.

Wasn't there some report or discussion or debate (when the first DVDs came out from Anchor Bay, or even before that) that The Black Hole was being prepped, written, etc. before Star Wars: A New Hope came out so it wasn't really a rip-off? Just bad timing?

I also wondered why there is a planet shown on the box cover.

It's funny to see the wires supporting the actors and robots so blatantly obvious (no digital "erasing" as part of the remaster?). I have never seen the Anchor Bay versions so I don't know if the wires are so visible due to the improved video transfer.

Finally, I would end a remake by not showing anything. Leave it up to everyone's imagination. I might show the Palomino crew's faces as they enter and leave it at that. Maybe show Maximilian's glowing red eyes in total darkness and end it there. Maybe a V.I.N.C.E.N.T. voice-over with one of his philosophical quotes (or a new one that relates to exploring the unknown).

I enjoyed this movie as a kid and I still enjoy it today. Thanks, Disney/Buena Vista!

"The 'Wills' accomplish everything, the 'Won'ts' oppose everything, and the 'Can'ts' won't try anything." - V.I.N.C.E.N.T.

"The word 'impossible' ... is only found in the dictionary of fools." - Dr. Reinhardt

 

[Ernest Rister]

"A world of endless possibility."

And then the oxygen supply runs out.

Vincent is left alone in a floating ship full of decomposing corpses.

Roll credits.

 

[GeorgePaul]

True, there's still plenty of room for suspension of disbelief, but I think any remake would have to tone that down from the original (because it was WAY out of control there--all the references to the black hole being some kind of biblical instrument of apocalypse or genesis, the innocent faith in deep space exploration being advanced even in countries like France and Japan, humans breathing in vacuum for 5-10 minutes at a time without spacesuits, etcetera).

Like it or not, even family film audiences are considerably more cynical 25 years later, and to buy into "The Black Hole"'s plot, the story would need a plausible basis--one conceivable in reality. A huge ship like the Cygnus going into a black hole? I'm not sure kids would buy that as even a fantastical possibility. Did anyone else read that one criticism of "The Black Hole" which indicted the writers as complete do-dos when it came to sci-fi because they had only written for Westerns (mostly on TV) before?

But, hey, a good John Barry score allows me to suspend a LOT of disbelief, personally.

 

[Ernest Rister]

"No, surely the black hole as a conduit to some other place, or even some other universe, must remain. Otherwise why use the black hole at all? In The Black Hole the black hole literally is that undiscover'd country from whose bourne, no traveller returns. In other words the black hole is death."

Andrew and I are on the same page. The potential for great thematic richness is stamped all over the story for the Black Hole, but such great potential is never realized. The *potential* reminds me of the *potential* of Alien 3, but I think Alien 3 is almost as big of a mess as The Black Hole.

My only answer to the story problem is built around the idea of making the main character Kate, the psychic. As the film begins, Kate is plagued by dreams about her father, and visions of her own death. One of the main problems with the Black Hole is that we never follow one central protagonist, we follow one character here and there -- that structure has to go. Kate would be the main character, and her visions will come true. She will see her father again, and she will die.

The trick is structuring the ending so that Kate chooses to sacrifice herself by launching the probe ship with herself in it, somehow saving the rest of her crew, who must run for the Palomino instead (the Palomino can't be fried like it was in the original). As the crew blasts off on the Palomino, they watch from a distance -- Vincent sees what Kate sees as her ship takes Reinhardt's course and plunges into the Black Hole. Vincent sees the trip, then Kate's death, and then, suddenly, Kate's reunion with her father in the afterlife.

Vincent's vision ends, as the Palomino changes course and limps towards home.

That would be my rough sketch of a remake of the Black Hole.

(waits for rotten tomatoes to hit me in the face)

 

[Tino]

An incredible disappointment!

Not the film, but the transfer.

My non-anamorphic Anchor Bay copy looks better zoomed than this anamorphic Disney release!

The Anchor Bay version has better depth, more vibrant colors, more detail and less grain than the Disney version.

I am dumbfounded. Has anyone else done an A/B comparison between the two and agree with me? I am watching this on a 65" 16X9 SONY Avia calibrated sitting 8 feet back.

I guess sometimes, enhancing films is not always an improvement.

BTW, I love this film.

 

[DaViD Boulet]

I didn't have the anchor bay version to compare...but that's something that I'd *LOVE* to do if anyone in the Wash DC area has a copy and wants to bring it over for a little A/B comparison on the BenQ projector...

just PM or email me if interested. I'd really love to do it, so this is an open invitation.

If I get a chance to do an A/B, I'll update the official review to reflect the result that we find...

-dave

 

[AlexBC]

WOW, Tino's assertion is quite intriguing. I don't have the AB version, but Peter M. Bracke at DVDfile had exact opposite reaction to the transfers.

Well, I hope David can get to do a comparison so we have this issue cleared out.
And thanks David, as always, an excelent review!

 

[Tino]

I just re-read the review over at dvd file and all I can say is .

FWIW, I had some friends over awhile ago and I showed them the opening scenes from both versions and all three of them picked the Anchor Bay version as looking the best.

Go figure! Hopefully someone here will also do an A/B comparison. I doubt that I have a defective copy, but you never know.

 

[DaViD Boulet]

OK,

Now I HAVE to do an A/B comparison.

BTW, I've noticed lately that i'm usually in 100% agreement with Dan's reviews over at DVDfile, but find that more often than not I'm not in sync with Peter's...but I want to keep an open mind on this till I can screen it on the projector.

c'mon folks...someone out there reading this thread *has* to live in the DC area and have a copy of the anchor bay version. Let's see you step up to the plate...it will make for a great enhancement to the review and be of great help to others...

p.s. just moved so my place is a MESS but other than that no problem hosting a fun A/B comparison session!

-dave

 

[PeterTHX]

I thought the first digitally recorded score was for Jerry Goldsmith's "Star Trek - The Motion Picture" (ironically came out around the same time and was a big a mess as BH)

 

[Kevin M]

RRResist....urge...t..to debate...ST:TMP/BH comp..ar..ison....

Phewwww...anyway, according to Varese Sarabande Records in discussing STAR TREK: NEMESIS being the first DSD recorded motion picture score...

 

[Andrew Bunk]

Ernest,

I've seen this film numerous times and I've never gotten the impression that this is what happened. Not that I'm doubting it, but I'm interested to hear what in the film led you to this interpretation.

I have not yet sold off my AB version so I will also try and AB comparison tonight.

 

[jonathan_little]

Bruce Botnick claims that Star Trek: TMP is the first digitally recorded score. John Barry and Dan Wallin claim that The Black Hole is. I had never heard the claim about Star Trek: TMP until Botnick asserted it in the liner notes of the Nemesis SACD.

The latest Star Trek: TMP CD from Columbia/Legacy lists a recording date as early as September 25, 1979, but the bulk of the final score was recorded in October and November. Unforuntately I have no idea what the dates of The Black Hole scoring sessions are.

 

[TedD]

I just did an A-B comparison with the AB and the Disney Black Hole.

I'd have to say the results are inconclusive. Maybe a little more EE on the Disney version. Neither one has a great transfer.

5'x12' screen, viewed from 15'.

HTPC, NVidia FWMM 4.0 filters, FFDShow, Zoom Player, NVidia 5950 Ultra video card, DVI, feeding Sharp XV-Z12000 HD2+ DLP.

Ted

 

[Rex Bachmann]

DaViD Boulet wrote (post #1):



Haven't seen it for a while (I've got the laser disc somewhere), and even though I found some of it silly, I never got the impression that The Black Hole was intended as "camp". I always thought it best taken as a dark fairytale.

An "adult take" on remaking this film, and especially on reworking its ending, would have to consider the premises behind, and concepts (but lightly) explored in, Event Horizon (1999), no?

 

[Tino]

Btw, has anyone here watched an anamorphically enhanced re-issue and prefered the non-anamorphic version?

Have all 16X9 upgrades been an improvement?

Just wondering.

 

[PeterTHX]

heh, no coparison needed. Two COMPLETELY different films that just happen to be in the same genre, and were both the victims of studio meddling. (and BOTH released in December of 1979, but I'm pretty sure Trek was first by at least a week or two)

I, too, have the Nemesis SACD. Awesome score in full 6 channel surround. Would love to see some of the older multitrack soundtracks released in the same fashion.

Unfortunately, I have to REPLACE my Nemesis SACD: the center of the disc (the thinner, spindle area) is beginning to crack. No idea why, never had that happen before. It was my first dual-layer CD/SACD hybrid. I hope this isn't some kind of design flaw. :frowning:

 

[PeterTHX]

Tino: 16x9 VS 4x3....well (um) "Showgirls".

"The Abyss: SE" was supposed to come out in 16x9, but the new transfer was inferior. So Cameron decided to use the LD master.

"Titanic" remains one of the few unfiltered DVDs, and can look stunning even when projected. I'm not sure if an anamorphic DVD would be an improvement, since the mindset these days is to filter nearly everything in some way.