How The West Was Won - Blu ray (1 Viewer)

[Mike Frezon]

I watched the letterbox version last night. And then went back and watched some of the "big" scenes in smilebox.

I have a small HD screen. And while the smilebox effect worked...I don't think it would have had the same impact on my 28" HD CRT as maybe projected onto someone's 110" screen! I enjoyed the letterbox version immensely.

Both seemed to bring their own brand of distortion to the image which was especially noticeable in some scenes more than others. The restoration and removal of the Cinerama "join lines" is simply amazing.

What a fun film! I'm kind of surprised it won an Oscar for writing...but what an epic production with a huge cast, etc. And the story even started out in my own backyard--on the Hudson River in Albany, NY.

The SQ & PQ were both terrific. It was surprising to hear how active the surrounds and LFE were for that old of a film.

 

[Vern Dias]

An interesting article on the Cinerama theater.

Several major differences from the original Cinerama installations, though.

1.
The original booth layout was either 3 or 4 separate booths, one each for Able Baker and Charlie projectors. In the theaters purpose built for Cinerama, thr Baker booth also contained the audio dubber and a conventional 35mm projector for the breakdown reel. In theaters that were retrofitted, the dubber and the 35mm projector for the breakdown reel were usually located in the original projection booth located way up on the back wall. The audio console was out in the auditorium. The 3 projectors were required to be positioned exactly level with the center of the screen and perfectly centered with it's respective screen panel.

2.
Large reels were used as platters were not yet invented in 1953. Using reels minimized the possibility of film damage. since mis-threaded platters are responsible for most of the physical film damage seen in todays theaters. Reel size was also the reason for the intermission in the original Cinerama features, even though they were 2 hours or less long.

3.
The original Cinerama screens were composed of many many individual strips or louvers, each one facing forward. This was done to avoid the image on the sides of the screen from washing out the image on the opposite side. I may be wrong, but I believe that the Hollywood Cinerama does not have this type of screen. Here is a picture of the remains of a louvered screen in an older installation: Pictures of Cinerama Screens

And a better picture part way down the story:
Pictureville Cinema, Bradford, England

In comparison, the Cooper Cinerama theaters had the original style louvered screens right till the day they were torn down. I believe the Seattle Cinerama also has a louvered screen.

Also, the Hollywood Cinerama has a Cinerama screens sized at 32' x86' which is the modified single strip Cinerama AR . Compare that to the Coopers at 35' x 105', or the Seattle Cinerama at 30' x 90'.

Vern

 

[Bob_L]

Good info, Vern. I grew up going to an original Cinerama theater installation in Portland, OR at the Hollywood Theater with the three booths and the louvered scree. The dimensions of that theater were considerably smaller than the Dome, so more of the seats were in the enveloping "sweet spot." It appears that in Bradford, the audience is quite a distance away from the screen which is going to reduce the effectiveness of the Cinerama peripheral vision effect.

As good as the presentation of HTWWW looked in the Dome, it wasn't nearly as engaging as the first-run presentations in the Hollywood Theater, where I saw the movie a few times.

 

[RolandL]

I added comparison of BD to old dvd on this page htwwwdvd

 

[Bob_L]

Great comparison shots, Roland, thanks very much.

 

[WadeM]

I thought Warners did a fantastic job with this release! It looks amazing.

 

[Garysb]

Warner just released a non book edition of the blu ray of How the West Was Won. It is a single disk and does not have the smile box version of the film.


Hope this doesn't mean the original release is going OP.

 

[Larry Geller]

Originally Posted by Garysb

Warner just released a non book edition of the blu ray of How the West Was Won. It is a single disk and does not have the smile box version of the film.


Hope this doesn't mean the original release is going OP.

This really, really sucks. And they have the nerve to still charge over $20 for it, not $9.99 or less. Also saw a cheapened JFK. As soon as I saw them, I ran out & bought Mutiny On The Bounty. LOVE those Blu-Ray Books!

 

[Aaron Silverman]

If you have a big TV then the Smilebox version of this film is really cool!

 

[bonnermartin]

The restoration of How The West Was One is very good. I believe they did a fantastic job of reducing the vertical seams between the 3 films as good as can be expected. I saw this movie in cinerama when it first came out and the memory has lived on in my memory and the smilebox version is as close as one is going to get to the Cinerama experience on a flat panel display. Watch it on as large a screen as possible 65 inch preferable and sit only 3 times the hight of the display away with full 7.1 sound. Our Lexicon processor makes a great job of providing 7.1 sound from the 5.1 sound track.


This is Cinerama is coming see; Its in smile box presentation so use your full wide computor screen or TV to view it. I would also like to see the Cinerama version of The Wonderful World of The Brothers Grimm.

 

[benbess]

Nice review! Thanks. Good to hear that someone who watched it in the original format approves. The sound is great on this one, isn't it, for a film of 1962. I read somewhere, however, that the negative for Grimm was damaged beyond repair. That and the lesser commercial value of that title means we are unlikely to see it on blu...

 

[GMpasqua]

Quote: Originally Posted by benbess Nice review! Thanks. Good to hear that someone who watched it in the original format approves. The sound is great on this one, isn't it, for a film of 1962. I read somewhere, however, that the negative for Grimm was damaged beyond repair. That and the lesser commercial value of that title means we are unlikely to see it on blu...





I like the way it looks in smilebox.


Why do you believe a film from 1962 wouldn't look/sound as good as a film made today?


A number of films made during the 60's were filmed on expensive 70MM film stock (nothing shot today comes close to looking as good)

These films also played in specially equipped high end theaters (usually for a year or more) and had 6 channel surround sound


These films should sound great.


True Mono films from the same period will not sound anything like films shot today, but not every film from 50 years ago was shot on 35Mm stock and featured mono sound.


Many of todays films aren't photographed as well as some of the older films (there isn't the time or money today) And many of these films featured real people and places (no CGI) those crowd scenes are real my friend


Get the notion that older films will not look as good as newer films out of your head. If you really do not believe me, go see a brand new 70Mm print of a 60's film and tell me the image on screen wasn't better than the lastest film you saw in the multiplex last week.
True, sound wasn't recorded digitally, so you will have some hiss here and there, but most 70MM six channel prints can be mixed to sound closer to that of films recorded today.

 

[bonnermartin]

Originally Posted by benbess

Nice review! Thanks. Good to hear that someone who watched it in the original format approves. The sound is great on this one, isn't it, for a film of 1962. I read somewhere, however, that the negative for Grimm was damaged beyond repair. That and the lesser commercial value of that title means we are unlikely to see it on blu...

Hi Benbess. The sound is fantastic love the overture for the opening credits The MGM Symphony orchestra excelled them selves with the quality of the sound. Alfred Newman always wrote great cinema music. Great sound in my opinion always adds to a movies enjoyment.

Thanks for the info on Grimms film.


Bonner Martin

 

[bonnermartin]

Originally Posted by GMpasqua

I like the way it looks in smilebox.


Why do you believe a film from 1962 wouldn't look/sound as good as a film made today?


A number of films made during the 60's were filmed on expensive 70MM film stock (nothing shot today comes close to looking as good)

These films also played in specially equipped high end theaters (usually for a year or more) and had 6 channel surround sound


These films should sound great.


True Mono films from the same period will not sound anything like films shot today, but not every film from 50 years ago was shot on 35Mm stock and featured mono sound.


Many of todays films aren't photographed as well as some of the older films (there isn't the time or money today) And many of these films featured real people and places (no CGI) those crowd scenes are real my friend


Get the notion that older films will not look as good as newer films out of your head. If you really do not believe me, go see a brand new 70Mm print of a 60's film and tell me the image on screen wasn't better than the lastest film you saw in the multiplex last week.
True, sound wasn't recorded digitally, so you will have some hiss here and there, but most 70MM six channel prints can be mixed to sound closer to that of films recorded today.

Movies of the 60's which were shot on large format films like what you mention above and Vista Vision can look a lot better than films of today shot on 35mm unless the camera and processing equipment have got frame positioning locks. Tried to find a link to this technique but it is claimed that locking the film in is exact correct position while the photo is taken and copied or projected vastly improves quality and stops the wandering of the image that use to be common in older movies


Provided the sound was recorded well there is no reason why sound recordings of even the 50's and 60's can't be restored to rival modern day digital recordings. I restore old sound recordings and virtually all the hiss, crackle, loss of bass or treble can be corrected and you can nearly make a silk purse out of a sows ear so to speak, have a look at Diamond Cut 8 at; http://www.diamondcut.com/store/index.php I have recently restored a parlaphone recording of Fanfare for The Common Man. In my opinion it beats many of the more modern digital recordings.


Bonner Martin

 

[benbess]

Originally Posted by bonnermartin



Hi Benbess. The sound is fantastic love the overture for the opening credits The MGM Symphony orchestra excelled them selves with the quality of the sound. Alfred Newman always wrote great cinema music. Great sound in my opinion always adds to a movies enjoyment.

Thanks for the info on Grimms film.


Bonner Martin

Yes! I listen to the songs and the fantastic beginning to the great Newman score while doing dishes fairly often.


Oh, and to reply to GMpasqua, let me just say briefly that you're right, of course, and that in fact I am aware of how great old films can look and sound. HTWWW, however, has particularly outstanding sound. I think the Cinerama sound process was extra fancy and high rez. That's all I was trying to say.

 

[ahollis]

Originally Posted by benbess



Yes! I listen to the songs and the fantastic beginning to the great Newman score while doing dishes fairly often.


Oh, and to reply to GMpasqua, let me just say briefly that you're right, of course, and that in fact I am aware of how great old films can look and sound. HTWWW, however, has particularly outstanding sound. I think the Cinerama sound process was extra fancy and high rez. That's all I was trying to say.

The sound on this film is fantastic. It booms and shakes the house, the Blu-ray did a great job on this sound and a lot of times, I just but the disc in to listen to the music. The soundtrack has been a staple in my house for many many years and is upgraded every time it is re-done. It is not just the main title or the Overture that is great, but the incidental bits and the character themes that are so moving and bring this film along. The three parts that make this such a fun film are the cinematography, the bevy of actors and the music. Three parts that all work in sync.

 

[benbess]

Originally Posted by ahollis





The sound on this film is fantastic. It booms and shakes the house, the Blu-ray did a great job on this sound and a lot of times, I just but the disc in to listen to the music. The soundtrack has been a staple in my house for many many years and is upgraded every time it is re-done. It is not just the main title or the Overture that is great, but the incidental bits and the character themes that are so moving and bring this film along. The three parts that make this such a fun film are the cinematography, the bevy of actors and the music. Three parts that all work in sync.

+1


Yes, It's episodic, which hurts a bit at times (I wanted more Gregory Peck!), but it's still a fine epic Western all around. And the passage of time is truly poignant by the end, and is emphasized so well by the music. I could do without the shots of freeways at the end, but that's part of what they were going for.


I started reading the novel a year or so ago, but got distracted. But I think the novel has the more complete version of the script. So if you ever want to find out what didn't get filmed for HTWWW or what ended up on the cutting room floor, I think the novel is worth looking at. It was written by the famous writer Louis L'Amour.


I had to return my library copy, but there are lots of cheap copies available at amazon--and in fact just this minute I went and bought one myself for $3.

 

[ahollis]

Originally Posted by benbess

 

Originally Posted by bonnermartin



Movies of the 60's which were shot on large format films like what you mention above and Vista Vision can look a lot better than films of today shot on 35mm unless the camera and processing equipment have got frame positioning locks. Tried to find a link to this technique but it is claimed that locking the film in is exact correct position while the photo is taken and copied or projected vastly improves quality and stops the wandering of the image that use to be common in older movies


Provided the sound was recorded well there is no reason why sound recordings of even the 50's and 60's can't be restored to rival modern day digital recordings. I restore old sound recordings and virtually all the hiss, crackle, loss of bass or treble can be corrected and you can nearly make a silk purse out of a sows ear so to speak, have a look at Diamond Cut 8 at; http://www.diamondcut.com/store/index.php I have recently restored a parlaphone recording of Fanfare for The Common Man. In my opinion it beats many of the more modern digital recordings.


Bonner Martin

It sounds like you might be talking about pin registration, where a positioning pin engages the film perforation and holds it in exact register while the frame is exposed. Modern cameras have fine registration but the high speed printing of release prints can cause frame instability. As multiplex theaters showing film came in vogue, sometimes over three thousand release prints might be needed. High speed printers were developed which didn't have the registration of older, slower printers.

 

[benbess]

Originally Posted by ahollis

ahollis: That is a good site. Thanks. They even have some budget numbers. It looks like they spent more than $2 million for that all star cast, which was a lot of money back then.