How much of a difference in sound quality is there amongt CD players? (2 Viewers)

[KeithH]

Alex,

The current Rega Planet 2000 is more expensive than the older Planet. List price on the 2000 is $950, though it can be purchased from some authorized dealers for around $700.

Avinash,

One thing I forgot to mention in my above post is that I once owned a Pioneer CLD-D406 laserdisc player that also plays CDs. It was an absolutely horrendous CD transport. As a transport, it was easily the worst CD player I ever owned. I never tried it with the analog outputs.

 

[AntonS]

I still wonder what's the reason of having an expensive CD player if you already have a high end preamp/receiver. I mean, if your receiver already has an excellent D/A converters (like practically all the top models have DSPs that are hard to beat running in dual differential mode for music), why would you want to pay and have another set of expensive D/A converters in your player? Why not just buy a cheapy CD/DVD player with digital output and use your receiver to decode the signal? In this case you can invest more into the receiver, and leave the CD palyer just to do it's primary task - reading the disks and prividing digital data?

 

[Jack Gilvey]

Anyone actually heard the 222ES yet?

 

[John Morris]

Anton: See KeithH's post above from 12/18 at 5:03.

 

[KeithH]

Anton, you obviously missed my post about the relative quality of transports. Also, note that there are still a lot of people out there running high-end CD players into stereo pre-amps and integrated amps that have no DACs. In such a scenario, the only options are to use the player's DACs (and many high-end players sound great using the analog outputs) or an external DAC such as one by Pepetual Technologies or MSB. Not everyone is running high-end CD players into A/V receivers. In fact, I would recommend against it for high-quality stereo sound.

Also, when using the analog outputs on a CD player, one should not only consider the DAC that is being used. The quality of the analog output stage, the clock (minimization of jitter), and disc transport all play a role. The DAC is not the only factor. Pioneer's new DV-440 DVD player that sells for $160-180 has a Burr-Brown 24/192 DAC. That's great, but there is no way that the '440 is going to compete with a $500 CD player when both are played using the analog outputs.

 

[JerryW]

I still wonder what's the reason of having an expensive CD player if you already have a high end preamp/receiver. I mean, if your receiver already has an excellent D/A converters (like practically all the top models have DSPs that are hard to beat running in dual differential mode for music), why would you want to pay and have another set of expensive D/A converters in your player? Why not just buy a cheapy CD/DVD player with digital output and use your receiver to decode the signal? In this case you can invest more into the receiver, and leave the CD palyer just to do it's primary task - reading the disks and prividing digital data?

Because some players do a better job of reading that digital data. Not to mention the trays on cheap players are noisey, flimsy, and cheap players in general are so cheaply made (obviously). Not to mention the remotes for most cheap players are junk.
Damn, there's nothing in audio that annoys me more than listening to the cheap carousel of a crappy CDP grind while it's changing from disc to disc. That alone is worth a couple hundred dollars extra, AFAIC.

 

[KeithH]

Jerry said:

Damn, there's nothing in audio that annoys me more than listening to the cheap carousel of a crappy CDP grind while it's changing from disc to disc. That alone is worth a couple hundred dollars extra, AFAIC.

I agree with you wholeheartedly. That is one thing I really liked about the Sony CDP-CA80ES. The carousel drawer is very quiet. In fact, the carousels on the SCD-C333ES and 'C555ES are a bit more noisy than the 'CA80ES. The SACD changers aren't bad by any means, but the 'CA80ES is quieter. A couple other carousel mechanisms that have impressed me are those on the Pioneer DV-C503 DVD changer and NAD 523 CD changer. Very smooth and quiet. However, the best carousel mechanism I have ever seen is the one offered by the Marantz CC3000, CC4000, and CC4000OSE changers. Incredibly quiet, smooth and fast. Very nice.

 

[AntonS]

JerryW, I kind of agree with you, but still I don't see a reason of buying the most expensive player with the most advanced D/A capabilities. By "cheapy" I did not mean some total junk, but just something decent with good transport. I think there is a pretty good selection in that range.

I wish they were making just the CD readers without much expensive analog electronics in them.

 

[JerryW]

Yep, I've got a CC4000OSE (used) on it's way to me right now. Picked it up for $150 from a friend in Fla. Can't wait to compare it to my CA80ES.

 

[KeithH]

Anton, again, with the expensive players, you are paying for a lot more than a top DAC. Many inexpensive DVD players (i.e., under $200) have state-of-the-art DACs. With high-end CD players, you are paying for outstanding build quality, reliability, better internal parts (not just the DAC, but capacitors, power supply, analog output stage, transport mechanism, clock, etc.), excellent design (i.e., short path lengths and good internal layout of all the parts to minimize interference and signal degradation), and admittedly, to some extent, prestige. Don't continue to think that a high-end player only offers a good DAC. A CD player, like anything else, is only as good as its weakest link. A $200 DVD player could have a top Burr-Brown DAC, but is likely to be poorly constructed everywhere else (thus, have serveral weak links) and be a poor CD player as a result. In the end, if you buy a high-end CD player and do not use the analog outputs (therby bypassing the DAC and analog output), you will still reap the other benefits and have yourself an excellent transport.

 

[JerryW]

Excellent point Keith.

Anton, I guess my question is, what do you consider "cheap" or "junk"? My opinion of cheap or junk is the vast majority of new players that sell for less than $200 new. They're noisey, poorly built, and have an overall "plastic" feel to them. I lump all the low-end Sony, JVC, Pioneer, KLH, Sherwood, Kenwood, Mangavox, Yamaha, etc into that classification. Even a solid midfi system will highlight the discrepancies in those poorly made players. Once you've listened to a quality transport atached to a decent system you'll never look back.

Can a person get a fine player/transport for

 

[Jack Gilvey]

And, maybe it's just me, but I'd much rather see a given budget go into a single disc player with better sound than all these carousel mechanisms, which I have no use for. I'm assuming its much more costly to make a decent carousel.

 

[Saurav]

Good point, Jack. It depends on whether the CD player is your primary source though. For me, my turntable is my primary source, the CD player is used when I want a few hours of background music without having to get up and change discs. In such a situation, a decent quality changer is a perfect fit for the application.

 

[Andrew Pratt]

Has anyone heard when Sony will release a single disc SACD player in the ES line up?

 

[KeithH]

Jerry, I would be very interested in hearing your thoughts about the 'CA80ES versus the Marantz CC4000OSE. When I still had the 'CA80ES and was looking at other changers, I looked at the CC4000OSE. In fact, I went to a store that had both changers and asked if they could bring the 'CA80ES in from the room next door and connect it to the same system as the Marantz unit for an A/B comparison. The salesman refused, saying that it would be a lot of trouble to move the 'CA80ES. I promptly walked out. So, I've only heard the Marantz player on its own, so I can't really judge it.

 

[KeithH]

Andrew, Sony does offer the SCD-XA777ES single-disc multi-channel SACD player, but it retails for $3000 USD. Oade Bros. sells it for $2000 USD. I have not heard of Sony releasing any lesser expensive single-disc ES SACD players for the North American market. Sony does offer the SCD-XA333ES in Europe, which has garnered excellent reviews. It's no 'XA777ES from what I have read, but it is considered to be a good machine. I believe it retails for somewhere in the neighborhood of $1800 USD (£1200).

As you have probably noticed, Sony tends to push changers on the North American market when it comes to CD and SACD players. By contrast, the European market always seems to get more single-disc players.

 

[Jack Gilvey]

For me, my turntable is my primary source, the CD player is used when I want a few hours of background music without having to get up and change discs.

You never fail to impress me, Saurav. I don't have a digital source in my two-channel music system, but I'm considering one of the SACD players for my ht.

I did help my brother purchase a Sony mega-changer a while ago, which he uses much as you do.

 

[Saurav]

You never fail to impress me, Saurav.

Thank you, though I'm not 100% sure what's so impressive about that What TT/arm/cart/phono stage are you using? And i don't have a mega-changer, I have a Denon DCM-270. I think there's a difference, at least in snob value if not in sonics.
On a completely unrelated note, what's your speculative opinion on the Adire Rava vs. the $350 Parts Express subwoofer kit (speculative since I don't think you've heard both)? The $50 price difference is practically negligible, so these two are priced amost the same. Maybe we should take this to email instead of hijacking this thread, I've been guilty of doing that in the past.

 

[KeithH]

Saurav said:

Thank you, though I'm not 100% sure what's so impressive about that

Yeah, me neither. I mean, you use outdated technology over the "perfect sound forever" CD?

 

[Saurav]

Well, gee, I'm also building a tubed preamp from a kit. Talk about old technology with measurably inferior performance numbers.