How much amp is too much amp? (1 Viewer)

[John Morris]

Martice: it is my desire for better 2 channel music playback that is driving my current upgradeitis. Previously, I used two seperate systems and my music system was a nice system utilizing a Classe preamp and Parasound 2200II amp using balanced connections. As you can see from my equipment list, I also have a turntable and around 400 albums...
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Take Care,
merc
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[Bhagi Katbamna]

John, those Mirage Speakers that you have are excellent and would be able to use the CAL's power because if I remember correctly, they aren't too efficeint.

 

[LarrySkelly]

$3400? Wow, if only we had such a deal up here in Toronto, Miles and I would both be in the doghouse for a year (kinda like Steve McQueen going to the cooler in The Great Escape). Each piece of equipment is like another infraction ;-) Actually I'm kidding, our wives are pretty understanding.
Miles, I know you're just itching to get your hands on this, I can just feel it in your replies. Or convince someone else to have it.
Really, for an amp its nothing to feel guilty about. The last time Miles and I were at our favourite store, they had a $250,000 CAD Krell amp. Yes that's $250K (Canadian style). The owner has already sold two or three, I believe, in the Toronto area. $250K - now that's something to think about. $3400 is a no brainer. Buy it, and if you change your mind sell it on Audiogon (but you never will).
Larry
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Upgrading: 'What if this is as good as it gets?'

 

[Ken Situ]

Would you have bought it?

No, I won't, not even for $3450. I am a tube kind guy.

 

[Manuel Delaflor]

To answer the topic question.
I would say that an amplifier is enough if it can produce the same volume that the instruments in a live presentation... for my equipment this is about 40w /channel (I own Klipsch, 96dB sensibility) coupled with a sub of arround 100w. In total, I think that reaching around 105dB without distortion is more than enough.
But some people say that you can't have enough power. Why?

 

[Bhagi Katbamna]

I would say that an amplifier is enough if it can produce the same volume that the instruments in a live presentation...

So far so good. All speaker sensitivity measurements are given at one meter so at the listening position it would take more than one watt to produce 96dB sound from your speakers. The problem is that not all speakers are that sensitive and they need more power for peaks in the music. It is always better to have too much power than too little as a clipping amplifier can fry speakers.

 

[Joe Cole]

$3400. Buy it now! This requires no thinking. Or almost none.
You can heat your living room during the winter with it as well.

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Joe C.
quote:Who's scruffy looking?
My biscuits are a burnin.

 

[KeithH]

John, you said:

it is my desire for better 2 channel music playback that is driving my current upgradeitis.

If you were to get an amp of the quality of that Cal, you would do yourself justice in getting a better CD player. I have the Denon DCM-370, and while it's a great changer for the price, it's still a mid-fi quality player. I would put the Denon CD recorder and Panasonic DVD player in the same class as the Denon changer, no offense intended. If you were to get that amp, I would look into some high-end CD players and consider SACD as well.
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[Miles_W]

Joe, It would go well with your Logan's also!!!
( ps it runs quite cool I hear!)
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Miles
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DarkSide Member since(93)

 

[John Morris]

Keith: the same guy is selling a Sony 333es for just over $600 new. Unfortunately, if I buy this amp, I certainly won't be able to buy anything else, except a new RPTV, for quite a long time.
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merc
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[John Gates]

John,
$3400 is a lot of dough. I know that this appears to be a good bargain considering the list price, but maybe this money could be better spent for more bang elsewhere. The danger here is, of course, that this upgrade would expose the need for further upgrades which you could not afford. In short, some people spend more money and end up LESS SATISFIED with their systems as a result! This audio bug is killing me!
This recently happened to me when I purchased my nOrh SM 6.9 drum speakers. The speakers are SO GOOD they revealed how BAD the rest of my system is! As a result, I'm now buying a pair of high-grade monoblocks to power them. In this case, I was more satisfied with my system BEFORE I upgraded my speakers. Of course, after I get my new amps, I expect to be yet more satisfied, but I was not expecting to have the added expense of amps.
Anyway, I wouldn't presume to know what you might place value on, I'm just offering some cautionary words. Some of these guys would buy this in a second, but maybe they have more money than I have also.... ;-)
Good luck in resisting the urge...
John

 

[KeithH]

John Morris, $600+ for a new SCD-C333ES is not a very good deal. The only qualifier I will add is that the 'C333ES was discontinued, and new units could be difficult to find elsewhere now. If you want the 'C333ES, $600+ may look good if there are no other options.
I bought the 'C333ES for $600 from J&R Music World in April, which was when they first dropped the price. In recent months, I heard that mail-order dealers such as Oade Bros. and J&R were selling it for $500-550. Good Guys out west even advertised the 'C333ES for $400 on their web site recently. They don't do mail order though.
See if you can still get the 'C333ES for $500-550 by mail. As an alternative, consider the Sony SCD-C222ES multi-channel SACD changer. It retails for $800, but Oade Bros. is selling it for $575. I am considering it for multi-channel capability. Over on Audio Asylum, I read a post a couple of weeks ago from an owner of the 'C222ES and 'C333ES who said the 'C222ES sounds better with CDs and stereo SACDs. That surprised me. I haven't seen the 'C222ES in person yet, but the 'C333ES is the better-built machine from what I have read. Still, if the 'C222ES sounds better given the lesser build quality and lower retail price (the 'C333ES originally retailed for $1200), that would be something. Of course, I am repeating just one person's opinion about the relative quality of the two players.
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[Edited last by KeithH on September 25, 2001 at 08:58 PM]

 

[John Morris]

John: My impulse is to buy the amp and sell it for a $1000+ profit and then use that money to buy a used Cinepro 3K6II amp or another ATI 2500 and alot of DVDs.
Keith: I realize that $600 is now alot for this unit. My guess is that he is basing his pricing on the units original costs minus 25%. At least that's how he came up with the $3400 on the CL-2500. My guess is that his 333es pricing is very old...
BTW, I've bought, so far, a new Parasound PPH-1 phono preamp for $48 and a pair of perfect demo Lovan Jazz 600 speaker stands for $60 which I'm using for my center channels. They are looking for the crate that the cl2500 came in... and when they find it, I'll have a decision to make.

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Take Care,
merc
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[KeithH]

John, if you walk into the store ready to drop $3400 on the amp, the dealer may be willing to drop the price on the 'C333ES. Can't hurt to try.
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[Norm Strong]

How much amp is too much?
1. If you never have occasion to use all of it, it's too much.
2. If it costs more than $2/watt, it costs too much, so it is too much.
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Norm Strong ([email protected])

 

[John Morris]

Norm: Who knows if I can ever upgrade my other equipment enough to match the potential that this amp would offer? Then again, into 8 ohms this amp only costs $1.36 per watt and into 4 ohms it comes down to around half that per watt...
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Take Care,
merc
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[Mark C.]

This is like walking down a back alley filled with winos and asking them if you should open this bottle of Jack Daniels you just happened to find at a really good price.
Funny, I'm going through the same thing, but on a much smaller scale. I recently purchased a Rotel RMB1075 (5x125), my first foray into separates. I also purchased a Rotel RSP976 pre/pro to go with it. Now I am convinced it's overkill. I had a Nakamichi AV-10 which did a great job for me. Since my listening area isn't very big, the Nak was more than enough. Now, with the Rotel, yikes! The gear looks great, the sound, both music and movies, is fantastic. But maybe this system just a tad too much for my needs.

 

[KeithH]

Norm said:
quote: If it costs more than $2/watt, it costs too much, so it is too much.[/quote]
In your opinion, does this statement apply to all amps, including surround-sound receivers and stereo integrated amps, or are we just talking about two-channel power amps? No matter what, if we consider 100W per channel as the average figure for amps, then we are talking about spending $200 for an amp, or $400 if we consider both channels. Sorry, but $200-400, especially $200, doesn't get you much of an amp these days (considering brand new units only). You can do well around $400 for a stereo integrated amp (NAD C 350, Cambridge Audio, for example), but that's about it. $400 gets you a mid-fi surround-sound receiver that will be lackluster for music.
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[Edited last by KeithH on September 26, 2001 at 05:58 PM]

 

[erikk]

John, you should DEFINITELY not buy it. Its not a great amp and the price just isn't right.
Now if you could just do me a favor and let me know what store exactly is trying to rip you off like that so I can go have a talk with the owner I'd appreciate it. What you think I'd go buy the amp!?!?!?!? Thats crazy talk. Do they sell over the phone?

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Erik K
SV Subwoofers

 

[Jason Watson]

Erik,
I know where he is getting this deal and for a finders fee I will pass it on . Just kidding John, my lips are sealed! But if you buy the amp you're going to have to invite me over for that demo you promised back when I was looking for SVS feedback.
Jason