Horror Movie Discussion Thread (1 Viewer)

[Brook K]

Thought American Nightmare was pretty good too.

Watched Night of the Demon for the horror challenge and liked it quite a bit. Very good tension and atmosphere and it treated the events seriously unlike alot of the Hollywood B-movie stuff from the same time period.

Love Argento and agree with much of what Justin said, except that while much of Emerson's score is wrong, I love the theme song.

Audition was hardcore, just really, really creepy. Much better than Saw. One of these days I need to rent all the Miike films available. The guy puts out like 5 movies a year so there's plenty out there.

 

[Kevin M]

It's funny how so many of us share the same thoughts, I too thought the opening theme from Inferno was really good but the rest of the score was misplaced, the rest just felt like abandoned E.L.P. themes from Works. Argento was in a tough spot at the time because Goblin had broken up (apparently not on good terms) and he was left with no composer, Dario was a fan of E.L.P. so I can understand why he jumped at the chance to work with Keith Emerson....it just goes to show you that being a great composer does not mean that you are a great film composer, it is a different animal.



Anyway here is another interesting Asian film although it is not really a true horror film as much as it is a homage to Sam Raimi's Horror/Comedy/Action concept in Evil Dead I & II, A Chinese Ghost Story & A Chinese Ghost Story II are hyper bizarre films that will make you laugh and make you...well...they will make you laugh at least. They do have a few creepy sequences between them but primarily they are the type of asian film that will make you raise you eyebrows and ask "what the hell are these people on?" Ah yes, Love, Mystery, Ghosts, Kung Fu & The Living Dead with evil mile long tongues...how can you go wrong?

 

[DanielM]

well Ive seen saw..saw Saw..cause I was told to see Saw...not sure what all the fuss was about pretty average oh well....have to check out heavenly creatures...Ive tried to watch devils backbone twice just got bored with it oh well...
chinese ghost story(s) are great!!! just wacky stuff...heres another one to watch for although hard to find and not avaiable in region 1 at all is malefique http://imdb.com/title/tt0309832/good stuff

 

[Seth Paxton]

Hate to join the discussion with this post, but Matt I just couldn't agree with you on Last House on the Left. Perhaps in the context of the era it would have affected me, but then again this is also the era of Clockwork Orange which features several more brutal and disturbing psychopath assaults than LHotL does.

First of all, I hated the scoring. I don't know if the intention was to be irreverent or powerful in its contradiction, maybe a Bonnie and Clyde thing. Whatever, it just killed any tension for me.

Second of all, the editing Wes does is downright awful at times, total jumps in continuity. At one point the escaping girl is safely across the creek, the next scene 2 of the villans are just sitting in the woods and she comes running by, leading to her recapture. WTF? This happens many times in the film.

And third, the terrible comic relief with the cops. Again the tension is totally undermined by this crap.

Maybe I'm jaded but this film far less intimidating than ACO, Texas CM, or Psycho. Heck, Midnight Cowboy had more terrifying moments to it IMO.


I also finally got to Ginger Snaps 3 which was solid but not nearly as good as the first 2 films. One issue is that while the 2 lead girls are star quality, many of the supporting roles are filled out with rather untalented actors and GS3 relies on the supporting cast the most of the 3 films. Another issue is a slightly forced story that felt a little like the creators were more out of their element than they had been with the first 2 "modern girl issues" films.

However, I do commend them for going in a different direction with the film. In the end its on par with a film with a similar setting, Ravenous.

 

[Matt Stone]

Don't feel bad, Seth. It seems like no one agrees with me on Last House. I feel like a lone nut

BTW, I love the scoring that you hated. They used some of those David Hess songs in Cabin Fever and it really brought a smile to my face. I think the strange match of creepy ballads with the events on screen gives the movie a scary feel. But that's probably more of a taste thing.

Obviously A Clockwork Orange is more polished, but as I said in the other thread, the rawness of the violence is what hits home for me. Clockwork Orange always seems dreamlike to me, but this seems like it could be going on down the street...and probably is going on somewhere in the world.

Different strokes for different folks

On the topic of Ginger Snaps, I agree with you. The first two are better than the last, but the third is decent. The teen girl drama was so thick in the first film that I think I may have liked the second one even more.

 

[Alex Spindler]

Just got word that Haute Tension has been shifted from a Valentines day release to June, but it also seems they're going to release it NC-17 (!).

I'm one of the few fans of it from first frame to last, but I'm worried they're really limiting the success of this great film (which is worthy even in cut form).

 

[Matt Stone]

Scott posted about it in the Upcoming thread. It pisses me off that it's getting delayed, but I'm happy they're releasing it uncut with an NC-17 rating. I don't think it will limit it's success, because after all, it is a French gory horror movie. Not exactly something American audiences will flock to.

 

[Alex Spindler]

Sorry, didn't see his mention of the NC-17 rating.

I have to wonder how they'd present it. If they dub it, there's little reason for them to do anything but use the recent trailer as the approach - straight forward tense horror film. If it weren't NC-17, I'd expect it could get people to flock in during February when nothing but crap graces the screen. I mean, here in Kansas, there are about two theaters that an NC-17 film can get booked in considering the domination of big chains like AMC. I don't expect the other non-metropolis cities will fare much better. I really applaud there conviction to the film, but this isn't a way to succeed. Even Rob Zombie had to take down H10KC to get it in theaters and we were heavily checked and cautioned at the doors.

Has any horror film since the '80s gone out unrated or NC-17 to any notable success? Heck, the last film I can recall in recent memory with an NC-17 was A Dirty Shame and that managed a wide release of 133 theaters.

Some spoilers with regards to Haute Tension and other bolded films.


One thing has puzzled me is the negative reaction that films using the 'unreliable narrator' get. Most famously, Roger Ebert dumped on The Usual Suspects for the same reason that people seem to fault Haute Tension. As with that other film, HT sets up the concept for it from the start and makes allowances throughout for it to play as both versions. I know a lot of people call the early 'getting head' as a break in the rule, but I always took that as more of an representation of Marie's repressed sexuality. Especially because the scene directly afterwards has her distractedly staring at Alex.
I know a lot of horror films use the

 

[Matt Stone]

I don't disagree with you, Alex...but as I posted in other threads, I feel that you have to justify the twist for it to completely work. That's not a horrible thing, and HT is far from a horrible movie, I just felt that the ending was a cheap wrap-up. You make the comparison to The Usual Suspects, and that may be valid, but the entire movie is about the twist and the execution is much better. With HT, the twist is tacked on at the end.

As I said in other threads, the movie really pissed me off when I first watched it...but I still really like it. I've warmed to some of the problems, but I still need to suspend disbelief to enjoy it completely. you mention the "getting head" sequence. It isn't the head that throws me, it's the fact that she knows what the other girl's house looks like without ever being there. Little things like that make it disappointing for me. I welcome inventive endings, but this one took the twist one step to far (ala Identity).

 

[Matt Stone]

BTW, regarding the theatrical release...



I sure as hell hope they don't dub it. If they do, my ass is waiting at home until the DVD release. I had to sit through a shitty dub already, and I don't want to do that again. Give me subtitles or give me death

As for the NC-17, I still don't think this kills the target audience. There's no way an import French horror movie is going to be released in 2000+ theaters. I live in "rural" Indiana (Lafayette...about an hour north of Indy), and my local theaters have been getting plenty of smaller stuff. Including the NC-17 A Dirty Shame and some other Unrated stuff. I'm not that worried.

Edit: Look at a movie like Ju-On: The Grudge. It had a legitimate tie-in, and it only played in a max of 11 theaters. I'm sure HT won't be that low, since it is an original work, but I don't think it will be marketed as heavily as Cabin Fever or Saw. You also mentioned House of 1000 Corpses. It played in a max of 847 theaters, and I don't think it would have been much lower had it been NC-17. Rob Zombie stated after the release that he hadn't even cut the longer version together...so that could partially explain why it wasn't released.

 

[Alex Spindler]

When I saw the trailer in front of Saw, I was really thinking they were planning a wide four-digit release of it. If they dubbed it and maintained the mute trailer concept, it could carry itself more in line with how import martial arts films are than import subtitled art films. I just want the film to do more than $1m at the box office, which I just can't see happening with that rating.

I guess I got the feeling that the twist was interwoven into the entire film, which was the reasoning behind the Usual Suspects comparison.

The film goes out of its way to show Marie's unrequited love for Alex, from the drive over to the stolen glances, to the discussion on how Marie rebuffs all male advances. Later, in her internal conversation with the killer, he remarks that Alex turns him on, just like Alex must turn-on Marie too. I'm of the mind that Alex's talk about being serious about the guy with he brazilian girlfriend is the trigger to the whole ordeal.

Then there is some of the behavior of the killer himself, especially the really awkward way that he grabs the gas station attendant's hand and strokes it, very feminine.

And of course, after the initial attack, Alex's reaction to Marie-as-Marie is in character with what she's actually seeing.

I was initially put off by the truck and car chase and the truck itself, but it makes sense as something to be found around a farm. The father has removated the farmhouse, so even the powered handsaw wasn't out of character. And Alex goes out of her way to explain the layout of the house and who sleeps in each room. The unreliable narrator really only comes into play in two sections:
- The initial truck/head sequence, where Marie recounts the truck before she had ever seen it (of course, the whole film is told in flashback)
- The subtle reactions of the gas station attendent to Marie in the store. It's hard to say what happens to him. Marie might have entered just like before, and then walked up to the counter talking like the killer.

I guess I just don't agree that the twist was tacked on, but rather carried through the film in a solid way.

 

[Matt Stone]

You mentioned A Dirty Shame, which is at around $1.5 million right now and Requiem for a Dream (released Unrated) made about $4 million dollars in a max of 93 theaters 4 years ago. It's not impossible.

 

[Matt Stone]

Okay, I decided to do a little research on the whole NC-17 thing. Here are some NC-17 films released, with how much money they made and how many theaters they played in (max at one time).

The Center of the World - $1.1 (45)
Crash - $2.0 (339)
The Dreamers - $2.5 (116)
Henry and June - $11.5 (295)
Happiness - $2.8 (60)
L.I.E. - $1.1 (45)
Showgirls - $20.3 (1388)
Y Tu Mama Tambien - $13.8 (286)

As you can see, none of the films earned below the $1 million figure you gave me, and movies with wider releases tended to make more money (with the biggies being Y Tu Mama Tambien and Showgirls...both of which played at my local theaters). It is possible...

 

[Alex Spindler]

That's true, but given the spectacular results of Saw, you'd think they'd be aiming slightly higher than that. They submitted Saw to cuts to get an R rating, didn't they? I don't think you could expect a fraction of the money if it had been NC-17, much less to say the ability to spread word of mouth.

Actually, another though had occured to me. I've seen the cut version, but I've been assuming that it would be the R Rated version. But in thinking about the film, I really doubt that it would pass even in cut state. Is there a limit on what would count as NC-17? Is it carte blanche where the uncut would pass or would even that be limited in some way?

Consider the results of The Devil's Backbone, which was well reviewed to my recollection and managed $750,000 in 45 theaters.

And Y Tu Mama Tambien was released Rated R in Kansas. I didn't think the theatrical release was NC-17 or unrated.

 

[Matt Stone]

You might be right about that. I'm pretty sure my theater had NC-17 on the marquee when I saw it, but I could be wrong.

I don't think there's a limit to NC-17...because there's no rating higher. Theaters could refuse to show a film if it was particularly vile though.

So you only saw the cut version? How grotesque was the decapitation of the father? Maybe the reason I'm so ra-ra about seeing it released NC-17 is because I've only seen the uncut version and couldn't imagine watching it cut. Also, regarding how much money it makes, what does that matter? If you like the film, it shouldn't matter how much it makes. Obviously I'd like to see it do well too, but I'll be buying the DVD regardless.

 

[DanielM]

Wasnt Henry:portrait of a serial Killer NC17?? or was it unrated

 

[Jim_K]

Back to Italian Horror.

A horror challenge leftover from my netflix queue arrived the other day.

Twitch of the Death Nerve aka Bay of Blood :star: :star:
Mario Bava helped to map out the slasher genre with this. Features some neat kill scenes lifted by the later F13 films, but the plot makes little sense & the finale is rather silly. This really pales in comparison to his earlier works such as Three Faces of Fear & Mask of Satan.

Planet of the Vampires & Hatchet for the Honeymoon should arrive next week.

As for Argento my top 3 would be Deep Red, Suspiria & Tenebre.

Infeno, Opera, Phenomena & Bird with the Crystal Plumage all had some good moments also. The others I've seen were just not worth remembering.

 

[Kevin M]

Then there's The Amityville Horror (1979), not on everyone's list due to the fact that the "true" story (and book) it was based on was revealed as a hoax...big surprise...but even so I still find the film itself to be a good creepy thriller with some scenes that still raise the hairs on the back of my neck...such as "jody" outside the window or Kathy Lutz's nightmares and I still find the Rosemary's Baby inspired title music to be the creepiest music I have ever heard...just thinking about the "Dead Children's" choir sends chills up my spine....Laaaaa La, Laaaaa La, La La La La La Laaaaaa La...brrrr.

Another of my favorites is The Legend Of Hell House (1973), not exactly filled with gore but soaked in forboding atmosphere that is aided immeasurably by a fantastic sound design by Delia Derbyshire, Brian Hodgson & Dudley Simpson...utterly creepy.
Lesson's learned from this film? Don't take showers with cats, don't go on a tour of gothic mansions with Roddy McDowall & don't invite ghosts to shag you....

 

[Scott Weinberg]

I'm with ya, Kevin. It's got some cheezy bits, but I quite like the original Amityville. I was gonna pick up the DVD for 9 bucks...but it seems fairly likely that we'll see a double-dip once the remake hits next year.

This was a pretty popular flick, and fairly controversial to boot. Surely MGM could come up with some cool extras!

 

[Alex Spindler]

I also had the pleasure of seeing Twitch of the Death Nerve, for the first time as part of an October marathon. Very enjoyable, although I don't know if he should be commended on building the structure of mass killing of uninteresting characters. Of course, his were actively unlikeable and the movie was technically quite great. A very fun film and one I wish I had see much earlier.



Spoilers of course



The cut version loses like 30 seconds, almost entirely by cutting away quickly during those key scenes. So you don't see the father actually lose his head, you don't see the actual cut of the mother's throat, the axe lingering in the gas station attendant's chest, or the handsaw actually cutting into the samaritan's body while he was alive. There is a surprising amount of stuff still in, like the mother trying to speak and one shot of the handsaw cutting the samaritan shot from behind which lead me to think they couldn't make it through the R Rating window. I could be wrong, but they're still quite extreme.

And I guess I want to see it make more than art house money because I think Lion's Gate has the drive and wherewithal to give horror a decent chance at the theaters. I think, even in dubbed or cut form, this one has a chance for mass appeal. Maybe, if only, it might be a herald for more serious horror films in the future. Essentially like I think Saw has a chance of doing.