Hk Avr 630 (1 Viewer)

[David Ruggiero]

You must have adjusted one of the channels to +10. If all channels are at +0, then the main volume will go as high as +10. Since you have one channel at +10, it takes that off your "main" volume, dropping it to +0. Does that make sense?

Btw are you going to exchange it and try another 630 before your 30 days are up? I realize it's a pain, but if the second 630 isn't loud enough then at least you will know that it is not the right receiver for you, and can rule the possibility of the first one being bad.

 

[WendyS]

Hi David
So it only takes 1 channel set at +10 to take the main volume down to 0?
I still haven't decided what to do. I'm going to buy a SPL to see exactly what the levels are when it's cranked and I still don't feel it's loud.
The built in SPL on the remote doesn't give me a number over 80dB when I check manually. It goes to 80dB and then just says HIGH???

 

[Shiu]

Just thought of two things, 1)80 dB is a fairly high listening level. If you are getting 80 dB on your SPL with the volume at -10 dB or so, I would say your receiver is fine. 2)you mentioned you had monster cables but what size and how long? I just bought some monster from the future shop (Kitchener) for my surround speakers and the biggest size I could get was 16 gauge. If you have long runs of 16 gauge, that could be part of the problem. Another part of the puzzle could well be the large size of your H.T. room.

 

[Wayne Ernst]

I've been reading most of these responses here - all good suggestions.

Wendy, have you considered the possibility that you suffer from some hearing loss?

 

[Drew_W]

Future Shop also sells XPHP which is 14ga I believe. But I think it runs about $170 for 50 feet. Total rip off. The good stuff was the AR Master series 10ga stuff they had. Now that was some solid wire...there should be some cheaper AR 16ga there, either that, or go to Home Depot and have them crank out some 12ga for you. 12ga for the fronts and 16ga for the rears is good, just so long as the run isn't too long. There's a website that shows what gauge should be used for what length of run. Can't find it at the moment, maybe someone else can.

 

[WendyS]

80dB is high?
I was trying to find that link which gives examples of sound levels and their sources and circumstances.
I don't suffer from hearing loss. Well I can't say for sure because it hasn't been tested, but I'm pretty sure.
The only thing I suffer from is wanting to hear music at rock concert levels I guess. LOL
I'm using the MONSTER THX 16 gage for all my speakers. The longest run to the back surrounds is probably 30 feet because of having to go up the walls and through the ceiling. Surrounds are about 20. Fronts and centre less than 10. I honestly do not believe this is the problem. I hooked everything up using my old speaker wire which was some really old,thin,cheap stuff and nothing changed.
I just spent 100 bucks on speaker wire and a few hours installing it. PITA!!! The wire is staying.
I really appreciate all the help and suggestions.

 

[Drew_W]

Well if you listen to music at those volumes for long periods of time, your hearing will decline. And if you want to pound out the beats like that, the H/K is not going to do it for you. And assuming you like everything else that loud, and you're trying to run a full 7.1 setup off that poor H/K at those volumes, you should return it and find something with a hell of a lot more oomph than that.

Just be careful with your hearing. Once you start losing it, it's not going to come back. Theatre reference levels are around 85dB, most H/Ts are calibrated to 75dB, which is even a little loud. Oi!

 

[Shiu]

I live in Cambridge and bought my wires from the Future shop. So I know they don't carry regular Monster wires greater than 16 gauge. I agree if the length is 30 ft then it should not be the problem. I am so curious about why your 630 could not deliver enough sound level for you, given that your speakers are highly efficient. On paper, the Yamaha 2400 should do better in 2 channel but the 630 will be superior in 5,6,7 channels, and I am talking in terms of sound level only. Still, it is hard to imagine the 630 could not do it for you.

Regarding the 80 dB thing, I used my "expensive" sound level meter to balance receiver outputs a few times, and I found it much too loud to do it at the THX suggested 85 dB level. I did it at 75 dB and it was still too loud for me, my Golden retriever would get up and walk away immediately every time. I down loaded a copy of the 630 and 7200 manual way back when I was considering HK. I think I am going to read them this weekend. Good luck, hope you can reach a decision before the 30 day runs out.

 

[David Ruggiero]

Wendy, if you put some music on, how high can you turn your volume up on your 630 until you hit 70dbs on your remote spl while sitting in your main listening spot? Here is why I ask:

On my 525 listening to music in Logic 7 mode, 70 dbs was about -38 on the main volume. So, since I have some of my channels set to +10, my main volume only goes to +0 just like yours. Now if -38 is 70dbs, it stands to reason that if I turn my main volume to +0, I am adding 38 dbs, for a total of 108 dbs (70 + 38). So I decided to test this. I turned my volume all the way up to +0, and sure enough my spl was around 108. Granted, this is not an exact measurement by any means, nor am I saying it is 100% accurate, but why don't you give it a try and let us know what the volume is at 70 dbs on your remote? So if for example, your spl is 70dbs at -40 on the volume we could assume your receiver could go to 110 dbs if you were to turn it all the way up to +0. Which is loud! Once again, this is not scientific by any means but should give us some idea how loud your receiver could go and if something is wrong with it. Even though your room is larger then mine (12x17) you should be able get about what I am getting in total spl since you have more power and more efficient speakers.

Btw what are your 5 individual speaker channels set at? (+10,+2 etc.)

 

[JohnnyG]

WendyS, to get a real idea of how loud the music might be, leave the room! Walk around the house, then go back in. Might sound like a silly exercise, but humour me

Subwoofers are really the key to rock concert like sound.

 

[WendyS]

Numbers....
I reset it again so this is strictly stereo, no sub, front speakers set to 0. I'm using the SPL on the remote. It's all I have.
-40 on the volume reads 69dB (I could sleep at this volume)
-30 on the volume reads 72dB
-20 on the volume reads 79dB
-10 on the volume reads HIGH (I've been found sleeping at this volume LOLOL)
How do these numbers look?
It's not my hearing because it isn't just me.

 

[David Ruggiero]

Ok, here is what I did. To get a similar result to yours, I re-tested in stereo mode, all surround off, no subwoofer. Readings were taken from 10 feet away from the left/right speakers. I played the same part of the same song for each reading.

Volume level -40 = 60dbs
Volume level -30 = 70dbs
Volume level -20 = 80dbs
Volume level -10 = 90dbs
Volume level -00 = 100dbs
Volume level +10 = 105dbs

These are all approximate, as the needle moves around some, but you can see that for every 10 dbs I increase the volume knob I get an increase of 10 dbs of sound, except for the last 10. Going from +5 to +10 didn't increase the sound level any, but if you check this link...

http://www.myhometheater.homestead.c...alculator.html

...105 dbs is max for my receiver and speakers anyway.

Here are your results again:

"-40 on the volume reads 69dB"

This part is fine.

"-30 on the volume reads 72dB"

Now this is a problem. Assuming you are using the exact same song, tone or whatever when you tested this, you turned up your volume 10dbs but only saw a 3 db increase in sound.

"-20 on the volume reads 79dB"

A little better, turning it up another 10 got you 7dbs that time.

"-10 on the volume reads HIGH"

High is anything over 80 dbs correct? Doesn't really help because we don't know how high over 80dbs you are. However since you still have another 20 dbs to go on your main volume, and your sound level is already over 80 dbs (if the spl meter on your remote can be trusted) I think it is safe to assume that by turning your receiver all the way up will give you another 15 to 20 dbs, putting you at or above 100 dbs of sound. Which is very loud for most people. If for the sake of argument everything is ok and you are getting 100+ dbs then I think you would be dissapointed no matter what receiver you buy, as you are expecting too much from the 630 in my opinion. You would need to either get seperate components or add external amps to your 630 to get much louder sound. I believe the formula is that for every doubling of wattage you get 3 more dbs in sound. So even if you were to get a receiver with double the power of your 630 it wouldn't be much louder. Of course another option would be to get more efficient speakers,(which require less power for the same volume, or go louder at the same wattage,)such as Klipsch for example, but I think your husband would freek! : )
But your Athena's are pretty efficient, more so then my Jbl's. I think they are fine.


So in your case, either your remote spl is wildly innaccurate, or your receiver/speaker(s)is/are messed up. Btw which speakers are you using for this test? Your Athena AS F2's? If so, assuming you sit around 10 feet away (you did say your 24x16 room was cut in half correct?) you should be able to hit 105-110 dbs. After all your receiver has 90 watts per channel in stereo mode versus my 85, and your Athenas have a sensitivity of 93db, compared to my Jbl's sensitivity of 89db.

Wendy, I can't recommend enough exchanging your 630 for another 630 while you still can. At the very least, even if it sounds exactly the same, you will at least have the peace of mind of knowing the receiver is not damaged.

 

[Shiu]

Wendy, -79 at -20 volume is about the same as mine (not HK).
I assume you use the 630's internally generated test tone, not music, right? If not, it is hard to compare with others and as David mentioned the needle would move around. If you did use the test tone then I think the reciever is "loud" enough" you just need more...................

 

[Wayne Ernst]

Dr. Ernst is writing his prescription for the following remedy to this situation:

ContraBass Subwoofer

 

[WendyS]

LOLOLOLOLOL

I can't help it man.
I must be a having a mid life crisis or something.



I listened to the Yamaha 1400 hooked up to Klipsh speakers. HOLY COW!!!!!!
I could feel the sound hit me!!!!
IT WAS FREEKING AMAZING!!!!!
But they are out of my league this time around. :frowning:

 

[Wayne Ernst]

Wendy,

Ironically, I had a chance to hear some Klipsch speakers yesterday. Granted, my listening was limited to what Best Buy (here in the U.S.) had to offer.

All speakers were being driven by older Yamaha receivers:

- Yamaha Speakers: Didn't do much for me.
- Bose Speakers: No comment
- Sony Speakers: Again, didn't do much for me.
- KLH: Didn't listen to them.
- JBL "E" Series: I wanted to be impressed by these speakers, but just wasn't. I need to listen to them again on another day.
- Klipsch "Synergy" series: In comparison to the other speakers, I was very impressed from what I've heard.
- Athena Speakers: Also, I really liked what they had to offer. The Athena and the Klipsch speakers would definately make it to my short list if I were to be ready to purchase. For my ears, they had the most to offer.

 

[Steve Adams]

Wayne you hit the nail right on the head!

everybody raves about JBL, I can't see what the big deal is. same with infinity. Not impressed with them either.

My good friend has a yammie RX-V1 (the big gold one). and Klipsch speakers....HOLY CRAP! sounds AWSOME!

 

[WendyS]

I think these Klipsh weren't the Best Buy line. The centre channel was $1200 or something crazy.
I'm still amazed by the fact that I could feel the sound literally hit me from 8 ft away.

I find that salepeople who haven't heard Athena's, or heard of them, or know that places like BestBuy and FutureShop sell them, turn their snoots up at me.
I was starting to think I was easily satisfied. I think I know me better than that.

I keep finding myself turning the music on and thinking.........yes this does sound good demmit!!!
I'm not imagining it.
No......the bass doesn't whack me in the chest.....but they can hold their own, and anything similarily priced just doesn't sound as good. There's a certain quality I can't put my finger on.....sparkly or something. LOL

A couple of days before I have to bite the bullet and either keep the HK or take it back.
There's a few features of the Yamaha 2400 that I really like such as the extra speaker hookups.....and the B channel thing....the built in equalizer. Having only a bass and treble on the HK bugs me. The Yamaha would save me 350-400 bucks.
The Yamaha supposedly has more power. Even though everyone says it won't be any louder, I'm hoping at the least I wouldn't have to run it wide open like I want to with the HK.
A few things that make me want to keep the HK....its's pretty, and since it is both silver and black, my future new DVD player will be easier to match up (LOL),the bass management, the remote. It has a built in HDCD decoder. I thought this was standard now until I looked at other units. I would have to find this in a DVD player if I went with the Yamaha. I was listening to Springsteen's Tracks which is HDCD.....AMAZING!!!!
The HK outweighs the Yamaha by about 6 lbs.....there has to be something to the extra weight. Yes? No?
The Yamaha does seem more sturdily (is that even a word?)solidly built though.

To make me even more confused.....I've looked at a couple of Marantz....6400 and 7400 I believe. Nice looking!!!
I haven't been able to hear one yet though.
I can't understand these shops that have crappy return policies but don't have anything hooked up to listen to. It's like they want you to go in there and write them a blank cheque or something. Yes you have 30 days to return it, but we keep your money. You have to buy something else from us???? Ticks me off!!!
One store yesterday suggested that I bring my HK in so I can compare it to the Yamaha.....hooked up to 5K worth of speakers. Now how would this tell me anything about how my Athena's will sound with the Yamaha???? DUH!!!

I know Best Buy has my speakers. I know they have Yamaha....not the 2400 though. Is there any point in listening to a different (lower)model paired up with my speakers? Or will it be like comparing apples to oranges.

HK is hard to find around here, and the fact that Future Shop (aka Best Buy) sell it makes people who sell other mid brands scoff at it. I keep hearing issues regarding lack of quality and reliability, difficulty in obtaining parts for units older than 5 years.


I really need to get on with my life!!!
There's other things to obsess about.

 

[Steve Adams]

Wendy, Marantz are very very nice receivers. I think the klipsch were the same ones my friend has. he paid like 6g cdn for the complete set.

 

[David Ruggiero]

I think if you return the HK, and get the Yamaha, you will be disappointed. I have heard Yamahas and think HK's sound better. You have already said that you like the sound and looks of the HK, you just don't think it is loud enough for you. I'd be willing to bet that the Yamaha doesn't go much louder (if it's power ratings are accurate it would be 2 or 3 dbs louder) and there is no guarantee that you will like the sound as much regardless of volume.