High Resolution Audio Comparison (1 Viewer)

[Lee Scoggins]

http://www.goldmund.com/old/mininews.html
This is the official Goldmund news story. Looks compelling!

 

[Lee Scoggins]

How do people feelk about the two formats today?
It seems some of us are gravitating toward owning both formats to capture more titles...
Let me know what you think.

 

[Brian L]

Definitely staying bisexual as far as Hi-Rez music goes
In my 5.1 rig, with a universal player (using an ICBM to sort out the FUBAR bass management) I hear good (OK, in some cases GREAT) sound from both formats.
Of the 25 or so Hi-Rez discs I own, I would say that the best sounding discs I own are Big Phatt Band (DVD-A), Beck's Sea Change (SACD), Bowies Heathen (SACD), Swing Live (DVD-A, which I do not care for musically), and Yes Fragile (DVD-A).
Hotel California and ELP Brain Salad Surgery sound pretty damn good too. And while I enjoy DSOTM and ANATO, I do not feel either are on the same level as the previously mentioned titles, sonically speaking.
I am not a zealot for either format (although I feel that the DVD-A titles I own present somewhat better value), and will buy whatever music I like in whatever Hi-Rez format it is available.
But ask me again tomorrow and I may change me mind.
BGL

 

[Lee Scoggins]

Of the 25 or so Hi-Rez discs I own, I would say that the best sounding discs I own are Big Phatt Band (DVD-A), Beck's Sea Change (SACD), Bowies Heathen (SACD), Swing Live (DVD-A, which I do not care for musically), and Yes Fragile (DVD-A).

I have to get the Yes album.

 

[Brian L]

I have to get the Yes album.

I highly recommend it.

As soon as I cues it up, what caught my ear was the air around the acoustic guitar intro to Roundabout. Beautifully recorded....the notes just float in space. Also, the vocals seem to have a lot of ambiance around them, like they were recorded in a large hall.

Overall, the classic Rickenbacher bass from Chris Squire is present in all its glory (in my youth I owned a Rick just because I thought the sound Squire got was so incredible).

Lastly, the pedal bass in Cans and Brahms is quite deep, particularly the last pedal note at the end of the song. At the right volume, you best have things in your listening room nailed down.

In general, this was another case of a MC Hi-Rez release allowing me to hear things in the mix that I did not know existed. I used to play this album over and over, trying to learn the bass parts. When I fired up the DVD-A, it was almost like hearing the music for the 1st time.


BGL

 

[gregD]

As clunky as the situation is -- as created by myopic, greedy corporations -- I'm for maintaining both formats... each is so different in terms of technology, content and philosophy that to have one 'win' over another would result in a significant loss (or at least an incredible delay) in content... and the titles don't exactly show up in prompt fashion as it is.

I want it all... I want to hear Miles Davis live with the precise sonics of music hall ambience as though I was there... I want to hear 'Bohemian Rhapsody' with all the imaginative surround sonics that can be created in a rock studio recording.

So... universal players for all!

 

[Steve Meskell]

Let's see......My retro pension check should be in my hands soon.... the new Pioneer universal player is coming out in two weeks......safe to say I'll be "Bi" very soon :wink: :wink:

 

[Mike Broadman]

Still into both formats, but definitely find myself digging SACD a lot more due to the Peter Gabriel discs and the better jazz selection.

If I had some decent cash to spend, I know I'd be buying SACD like mad.

 

[Lee Scoggins]

definitely find myself digging SACD a lot more due to the Peter Gabriel discs and the better jazz selection.

Me too. The classical content on SACD is particularly good and usually sonically fantastic. Exhibit A - any disc from Channel Classics.

 

[Mike Broadman]

Another disc in the San Francisco Symphony's Mahler series, #3, just came out. Too bad I'm gonna have to wait a while before ordering it.

 

[Brian L]

Let's see......My retro pension check should be in my hands soon.... the new Pioneer universal player is coming out in two weeks......safe to say I'll be "Bi" very soon

Make sure you set aside a few bucks for an ICBM to cure the inevitable BM screw-ups! Then again, you may be one of those furtunate souls with 5 big-ass speakers AND a honkin' sub!

BGL

 

[John-Miles]

You know I think people have said something very interesting in this thread, most people when saying which format they prefer have stated certain artists as their reason, not cause either format is better but because one format has the content.

I know thats how i feel at least.

 

[Lee Scoggins]

Mike,
I have to get the Mahler #3 to complete my collection. I have #1 and #6 and they are spectacular.

 

[Michael R Price]

I hate to jump into this conversation as an outsider unfamiliar with either format, but I have a curious set of questions to provoke some pro-hi-res responses.
What CD players and DACs are we comparing these formats to? I mean, what if we're not doing the CD format justice? What if you recorded music the same way as you'd do a high end SACD or DVD-A disk and just re-sampled it to 44KHz and 16-bit... and then played it through a CD player paying the same attention to quality (and it seems to me as if 90% them don't) as these new-format ones? How do non-oversampling or super-duper-oversampling DACs fit into this? If we can't hear ultrasonic noise why would we hear anything wrong with CD format limited to around 20KHz? Doesn't the higher sampling rate create a higher potential for jitter distortion?
So how much worse does normal CD sound, really?

 

[Lee Scoggins]

Doesn't the higher sampling rate create a higher potential for jitter distortion?

No. In fact the SACD replication process is designed to minimize jitter. Its not about hearing in the upper frequencies so much as hearing MORE in the normal range of hearing, which by the way can be beyond 20k.

 

[Michael R Price]

So the 16-bit resolution is the limiting factor and not the sampling frequency? And how do hi-rez formats try to reduce jitter? I mean, the sampling frequency is higher...

It brings me comfort to hear someone experienced did a real comparison with good equipment... for now, though, I'll just worry about making my CD player better. You're right about simplicity being usually better, although I fail to see how DSD is fundamentally any different than PCM in that respect. It seems as if there's much more complexity in the analog recording setup, and D/A and analog circuitry on the playback end, to worry about compared to the respective digital formats. Learning about the huge array of (fixable) problems with standard CD players has really piqued my interest in this.

Do you prefer oversampling or non-oversampling DACs?

 

[Lee Scoggins]

seems as if there's much more complexity in the analog recording setup, and D/A and analog circuitry on the playback end, to worry about compared to the respective digital formats.

All digital formats must record in analog and convert to digital so it is really no extra work between DSD and PCM. In fact, many engineers feel DSD mic feed are more similar to the live event versus PCM mic feeds. That's one experiment that Michael Bishop at Telarc did as they were looking into new formats...
One thing to keep in mind is that analog circuits in the output area can have a huge impact on resulting sound.
I would encourage you to listen to a high end SACD player. I think you will find it sounds like a good turntable.

 

[Michael R Price]

Thanks Lee. I'm way out of my league here, as someone who has never extensively listened to hi-fi vinyl, or hi-res digital. That will change, but only once I get my 1980s digital setup nailed down. Yes, 1980s (in outward appearance, but hopefully not in sound).

 

[Steve_AS]

re: Fragile.

In general, this was another case of a MC Hi-Rez release allowing me to hear things in the mix that I did not know existed. I used to play this album over and over, trying to learn the bass parts. When I fired up the DVD-A, it was almost like hearing the music for the 1st time.

It also allows you to NOT HEAR some stuff that was on the original album -- like lots of bits on 'Southside of the Sky', a track that's been remixed most radically. THere's also a bass riff or two on 'Roundabout' that have gone 'underground' in the new surround mix.
I'm not saying hte new mix is awful -- but it's certainly got its good an bad points. One thing it did was make me reappreciate what a geniius Eddie Offord was.

 

[Steve_AS]

Make sure you set aside a few bucks for an ICBM to cure the inevitable BM screw-ups! Then again, you may be one of those furtunate souls with 5 big-ass speakers AND a honkin' sub!

The only 'inevitable' BM screwups for a Pioneer uniplayer (I'm thinking specifically of the DV-45a) might be the crossover point of the bass management (too high for some tastes, and unchangeable) and its inability to do 'reverse' bass management (sending LFE to mains, only important for thsoe whiht full-range setups). Its other supposed bass management 'deficiencies', like the sub level adjustment, and the handling of various formats, have been highly misunderstood and misreported on this forum.