Help with appropriate Speakers/Receiver to bring out clear voice sound in small bedroom home theater (1 Viewer)

[schan1269]

I keep forgetting to explain the "forward sound" of Klipsch...
What happens when you cup your hounds around your mouth to yell at somebody across the street?
Well the answer to that is the same answer here.
Cupped hands=horn.

 

[gene c]

Post # 1 "upconversion (for my old vcr tapes),"
It seems to me the OP is just looking for more vocal clarity then what the tv's speakers are providing. I bet any decent center channel speaker would be a huge improvement and satisfy the "clarity of vocals" requirement. And Polk Monitors are pretty bright too.

 

[schan1269]

Yep, I re-read the first post and it is there...shame on me.
Then yes, discard the NR1402 and select the AVR591 Denon.
If you must have the "lowest priced" new AVR that included upconversion....
http://www.amazon.com/Onkyo-TX-NR515-7-2-Channel-Network-Receiver/dp/B0077V88VI/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1352048543&sr=1-1&keywords=nr515
Can probably be had for a bit less at A4L as well.

 

[girbabe]

It's sad that I have to sacrifice quality for all the added features that I don't need. And yes I need the upconversion since my TV (and I heard that this is pretty typical now for all newer flatscreens) has NO other connection types besides HDMI and a digital optical, not even a friggin headphone jack. AND, their so called built in dlna certified media player is a joke since it won't play several file types like avi but it will play mkv without sound depending on the audio file. And of course nothing that's recorded off of Windows Media Center.
I don't really have any experience with the newer AVR's. I just know I need one. The last one I had was a Pioneer and it was at least 20 years old. Now I'm a 55 year old woman who went to too many Alice Cooper concerts before we knew what loud music did to our ears (not that it mattered at 17) and there are so many more options that I can't just go buy one without knowing what I'm doing.
In a perfect world, I would like to have either a Marantz 1402, Yamaha RX V373 or Denon 1712 if they had upconversion and independent crossover, I like that! Can you find something for me without all the bells and whistles but still has upconversion? I just don't want to sacrifice quality so if I have to forego upconversion and just replace or convert my VHS movies, I will.
For speakers, I badly want the Klipsch RB52 II but at $419/pair, they're too expensive. The reviews on these things are phenomenal and it's been said that they don't need a sub. Though I heard that the Polk PSW10 was a good bargain but don't we get back into the voice matching thing? I was hoping maybe I could get a good Black Friday deal on the speakers. If so, is the used Synergy C-1 that I found on craigslist still a good option? (in answer to Gene, that's why the center is so much less than the bookshelf's)
I'm not willing to take a chance on the Onkyo 515, 616, etc. I looked at them originally but there is a whole thread dedicated to how unreliable this model is.
Thanks for the clarification on "forward sound" but Gene just threw in another adjective describing Polk speakers - "bright?" I think once I understand how it relates to the electronics you're describing, it's going to help me with my decision.
Thanks guys!

 

[girbabe]

Sorry about all the hand holding. I am spending all day every day looking, researching and asking with the hope of finding - and being satisfied with - the right components.
You seem to be all over the accessories4less reseller and their refurbished stuff. It makes me nervous but - if I trust that you're steering me in the right direction and I bought the AVR 591 (are you SURE it has enough power, watts, etc???), for $169, then I could afford some better speakers - like the rb52's. Unless of course, Gene really thinks I can be happy with less expensive speakers knowing about the whole voice clarity thing. I honestly can't hear sh** on these TV speakers. I have to crank up the volume to understand what's being said and of course the car chases, screaming, background music and explosions go along with it. So it's up and down and up and down. Even my African Grey is becoming neurotic.
Another thought is that if you recommend a set/system/combo whatever, I can always upgrade the individual piece or pieces that aren't ideal. For example if the procinema speaker system had great main speakers and a sub but the center wasn't up to par, the set would be cheap enough leaving me with enough money to upgrade the center speaker. Or like the HD500 with the Synergy C-1 Center? If they can be mixed. After reading about tweeters and impedance, I don't know what to think.
The thing is, the guy with the C-1 wants an answer but if I buy it, that leaves me with very few options for the mains and sub. It's my understanding that you're supposed to buy main speakers first, then build around them.

 

[schan1269]

Well, the AVR591 is your choice with upconversion...without all the other crap you don't need.
Bright is a reference for a speaker that has more "upper end" than lower end. JBL speaker are known for this because Titanium is a very "efficient" material to make speakers from. Titanium and Aluminum are both very light. Cerwin Vega(amongst a few others) makes spun aluminum drivers for subwoofers. Ridiculously efficient while being laughably inaccurate.
In my home right now...5 AV/stereo systems...
Onkyo TX SR707 feeding BIC V830
Integra DTR 7.8 feeding Infinity Crescendo 3007
Onkyo TX NR1008 feeding DCM TF600
The stereo only...
Kenwood basic line(C2/T2/M2A) feeding Dahlquist DQ10
HK 3490(not that exact one, I don't feel like going to look right this second, but it is an older 120x2) feeding Synergistic S72.
I don't even listen to the same music /movie in every room.
If I'm watching a "soundtrack intensive movie" (Immortal Beloved/Curious Case of Benjamin Button) I listen in the room with the DCM TF.
If I'm watching a "soundtrack artillery fire movie" (Saving Private Ryan/Transformers) I listen in the room with the Infinity Crescendo.
When I feel like rocking the house with 80s glam band (BulletBoys/Great White) I listen to the Synergistic S72.
When I feel like listening to classical(especially Mahler) I fire up the Dahlquist.
Point being...
There is no wrong choice in speakers.

 

[gene c]

If you want video conversion it looks like the 591 refurb from ac4l is your best option unless you want to scour Craigslist for something used that's 3-4 years old (not a good idea). Within the boundries of sanity, pretty much all receivers under $600 will sound about the same, especially for movies/tv. Get one with the features you have to have and accept the fact that you're going to pay for features you don't want. Kind of like cable. I had to take all the shopping channels to get all the ESPN channels.
A "bright" speaker emphises the high frequencies. Klipsch is known as a very bright speaker. they can become very tiring for some people when listening to music for extended periods but others like them. I've heard professional musicians say a bright speaker is better at sounding like a live concert. I like a brighter speaker for movies/tv because they really do a great job with action scenes, and as Sam said, they can improve dialog clarity. My systems are setup with music in mind first so I prefrer a softer, warmer sound.
The Polk PSW10 is a good bargia. Unfortunately it isn't a very good subwoofer. You can do better.
Two bad you don't need towers. There's a pair of Klipsch Synergy F2's in Olympia for $300. http://seattle.craigslist.org/oly/ele/3384817447.html

 

[girbabe]

Hey, I can do towers. Cash is just harder to come up with. Have lots of good credit though. I responded to his ad, lets see what happens. Will have to borrow money from my ex to make it work.
Wish I could afford to have a set up like Sam's. The right speakers in the right room for the right movie.
So okay no Polk sub. But, I found a good deal on Polk Monitor 50 series II towers at Newegg. One open box for $63 and one regular for $79.
You guys don't make me feel warm and fuzzy about buying the 591 though. I feel like I'm "settling." Maybe I should look again at the 1912 or 1913?

 

[gene c]

I think the Polk Monitors would work well for you. M50's and a CS1.
As I mentioned before, the 1912 or 1913 wouldn't really "sound" better, they would just have a few more watts (hardly noticable) and a few more features you may or may not want or need. To get a better sounding receiver you may have to move all the way up to the 3312. Extra money would be better spent on better speakers/subwoofer.
My brother has a Denon 1610 which would be almost identicle to the 590 (a year earlier than the 591) and it's maor than adequate for his needs. Most of us buy way more receiver then we actually need.
I have two rooms myself. One for movie night and extended concert video's (my personal fav :yum: ) with Marantz and Polk LSi's and the other is my "everyday" room with Pineer Elite and Infinity beta speakers. But I'm always changing things up.

 

[girbabe]

Okay. That makes me feel better. I have two more questions and I think I might be able to make a decision. First, would you mind taking a look at this thread and tell me what you think? It could have been me asking the question, my issues are so similar - especially when you read post #29.
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1029939/help-choosing-home-theater-with-good-voice-dialogue
Second, does the 591 have a night mode feature?

 

[schan1269]

The AVR 591 has Audyssey Dynamic Volume(ie, your night mode).

 

[girbabe]

Nevermind I saw the nightmode feature. I bought it.
So now it's between the Newegg Polk monitor 50 II towers and the cs2 center $253 (my preference) or
Fry's Polk rti8 with csi3 center. $418 (huge discount but didn't know if it's worth the extra money)
Please advise....

 

[gene c]

The Denon 591 has two things, one called DRC (Dynamic Range Control) and D. Comp (Dynamic Compression). They only work in certain surround modes like Dolby ProLogic, Dolby Digital, DTS, Neo:6, etc. The 591 also has Audyssey MultEQ room correction which includes Dynamic Volume which also reduces the range between the loud passages and the softer ones.
There have been many, many threads on almost as many different forums with the same issue...can't hear vocals. They always boil down to the same things. A larger more effecient center speaker is almost always better (at the same price point), angle the center speaker towards the listener, use Night Mode or Midnight Mode if it has it, set the audio adjustments in the Surround or Audio Parameters menu, use the Dialog Enchancement feature (Pioneer receivers) and adjust the Audyssey Dynamic Volume to the proper setting (Midnight, Evening, Day) and adjust the main volume of the Center speaker up a few decibles if needed.
Most receivers have several settings that can be tweaked to increase vocal clarity.

 

[gene c]

I had Polk RTi8's and a CSi5 (bigger version of the CSi3) a few years ago and they were Great as HT speakers but way too bright, almost harsh, for music which is my preference. RTi's are a step up from Monitors and worth the extra money if can can comfortably afford them. The Bookshelf RTi6's and RTi4's are also excellent speakers. If you feel you need a subwoofer later on let us know and give us a budget. We'll recommend a few.

 

[schan1269]

$253 or $418, almost a no-brainer to get the better speakers...
Plus, when it comes time to sell them(in 10 years???)...
Nobody is going to care about the Monitors. You'll have interest in the RTi.

 

[girbabe]

GAWD Thank you!! I sure ended up going down a whole different path and I really can't thank you guys enough. I went with the monitors and cs2 with the logic that if they don't work, I can sell and recoup some of the loss and get a different set. I'm thinking that they will give me some experience and I will be able to make a better choice after actually listening to them. But then, maybe they will be exactly what I need. I hope so. This whole process gave me a headache.
I'll let you know if I need a woofer. Could I also come back here and ask for help with the settings if needed? Since you already have so much info, I figured you'd have a bit more insight into how they should be tweaked.
Thanks again!!

 

[girbabe]

Ya know...I think if I didn't spend so much time in such a small space I could justify spending the money for bigger better speakers. Since I have no listening experience and nothing to compare to, I figure I can absorb a $253 mistake easier than a $418 one.

 

[gene c]

The Monitors won't be a "mistake". A Corolla ain't an Avalon but it's it's still a fine %$^& automobile. Relax and enjoy your new system. And if you thought buying was a headache wait until you start reading the manual!. And yes, we'll help with that too .
Have a good night.

 

[schan1269]

Monitors/AVR591 is a very good start to HT enjoyment...
Just try not to fall in "the trap"...
"The trap"=upgrade-itis

 

[girbabe]

ugh. You guys. It's 4am and I couldn't sleep. Had to cancel the speaker order. I have to stop reading all those forums. I'm going to stop being so impatient and just wait for the right sale. I feel good about the 591 I just bought but not the speakers. Tell me if I'm wrong but this is now what I've concluded:
The Klipsch reference models are much better than the synergy.
The Polk CS2 center would go better with the 60's or 70's (The 60's were twice as much as the 50's!)
The Polk CS1 is better matched with the Monitor 50. (Something about timbre matching?)
Denon and Klipsch are made for each other.
Any of the Polk 50, 60 or 70 will need a sub to hear the lows.
Do you agree?