HD-DVD outselling BD less than 3:1, not 11:1 as projected based on Amazon sales (1 Viewer)

[Jason Seaver]

Do those of us who've dropped $500 on a player count as having vested interests? I'd really like to continue feeding my new toy movies for years to come.

The $500 I saved buying HD-DVD rather than Blu-Ray is my biggest motivation, although I'm philosophically opposed to deliberately misspelled words. The other reason is that, from what I've read, HD-DVD seems like a much more consumer-friendly system: No region codes, at least initially, and less potential for Sony or someone else to cripple the equipment and software I've already purchased at a later date.

 

[Marko Berg]

As Jason mentions above, HD DVD is a region-free format and for that reason alone will be my format of choice once the hardware lands here in Europe. I will never support any format that places artificial restrictions on my ability to purchase legal software from wherever such software is released.

 

[ppltd]

No comment other than this. Your inherent bias is self evident. You do not want to get into an aurgument, but you state your opinion as fact, which it is not.

 

[Bob Black]

So because BD has served up a couple of good releases, there are no longer any differences in quality, huh? I guess I'll run out and grab Fifth Element, Dinosaur, and House of Flying Daggers then! HD-DVD has been very consistent in their quality, whereas BD has been mediocre or just plain lousy! No BD discs match "Batman Begins" or "Tokyo Drift" in quality - HD-DVD has raised the bar for hi-def material & Blu-Ray has been playing catch-up since its debut.

Can BD look as good using the right encoding? Sure...but why should we pull for the format that is striving to match the competition and costs twice the price? Because you seem to think its in everyone's best interest to support the format that you choose because of a handful of titles that will utilize a 50GB disc that has proven to not even be needed for HD playback?

Let me ask you a question - why should we support Blu-Ray over HD-DVD? If you can come up with one intelligent reason than I'll continue the discussion.

BD50 is extremely limited and is overkill for HD playback. And we all know that Toshiba has the triple-layered, 45GB discs up its sleeve if it is even deemed necessary. Studio support? If we all stay firm in our purchase of HD-DVD's (which are outselling BD discs by leaps & bounds) the other studios will follow suit soon enough. Fox and Disney have released or announced a handful of garbage anyway, while Universal is giving us great titles. Is there a major release on BD that should entice us to buy a $1000 player? You know, a major release like a King Kong or Batman Begins (oh, sorry - that's HD-DVD).

So we should all embrace BD, buy a $1000+ player or a videogame console, and buy up all the mediocre titles with mediocre quality and patiently wait for the format to catch-up to the one that's half the price? Did I get it right? Please enlighten me with any more brainstorms you might have. Thanks.

 

[Ed St. Clair]

Agree.

 

[LarryH]

For one thing, the HD-DVD group has been pretty straightforward in bringing out their primo product from the beginning. The Blu Ray camp began by shipping out inferior 15GB MPEG-2 product and only recently and only rarely offering up the extra capacity that, to the best of my knowledge, is the only technical, non-political, advantage they enjoy. They should have properly labeled their inferior initial offerings as not real HD rather than rushing out a half-baked product.

It would help if Samsung were as diligent in their updates and corrections as is Toshiba. It would also please me if HD-DVD quit putting out dual disks with single HD layers.

That said, I want both systems to continue forever as I have invested in both. I have about four times as many HD-DVD's as BD's, but, obviously, a larger equipment investment in BD. The best protection of my investment will be the dual-format player.

On the other hand, I'm so irritated at the whole comsumer electronics industry, I could spit on them all.

Edit: Oops! Mea culpa! 25GB -MPEG-2 is the main problem. I must have had the awful HD-DVD combo disk stuck in my mind.

 

[MarekM]

15GB ?

 

[MarekM]

I am sure you saw ALL movies on HD-DVD and Blu-ray if you can say that NONE of BD releases has topped or matched the best hd-dvd.

Marek

 

[Ed St. Clair]

Hi Marek,
Can you name one BD that does?
(I have NOT had the pleasure of seeing ALL HD disc releases, maybe SOME day!!! ;-) )

EDit (get it?)
Now that the banding problems of CP have been found to be display related, does the BD of CB match (or better) the HD DVD?
If so, this is my top PQ HD DVD release and I will sit at the computer corrected!
Thanks.

 

[Bob Black]

Marek,

Thanks to the internet, we HT enthusiasts are afforded the luxury of having many review sites that we can visit - many that are highly regarded and trusted. I know you didn't direct your remark to me, however, I felt the need to respond anyway.

Blu-Ray releases have been, pretty unanimously, reviewed as inferior to HD-DVD since its launch. They have improved of late, but even new releases like Dinosaur (which I have personally seen and can attest it looks no better than SD DVD) and Click (apparently riddled with video noise despite being on the format's savior, the BD50) have been less than stellar. In fact, it seems the best releases on BD are films from Warner that are also available on HD-DVD - typically with LESS features on BD than what is offered on the "inferior" HD-DVD format. Early releases from Sony were terrible (Fifth Element, House Flying Daggers, Robocop - thankfully delayed). Even now, HD-DVD provides much more consistent PQ with their releases.

I think we can all make our own judgements without having to see every single release on both formats. It has been pretty unanimous all across the internet as to which format is better - even owners of both formats favor HD-DVD's releases thus far.

 

[Mark Zimmer]

The longer the format war continues, the more incentive both sides have to improve their products, both on the hardware and software sides. If there were no HD DVD, Blu-Ray would not have been under pressure to improve upon their substandard initial offerings. And if there were no Blu-Ray, Toshiba would not have been under pressure to provide all these firmware updates that both fix problems and add features. So keep the war going!!

 

[Tim Glover]

Seems like the image quality is the same these days though. Early on, yes, HD-DVD was superior but the reviews now are about even.

 

[BrettB]

It certainly seems that we're past the point of HD DVD being superior in it's ability to deliver on the A/V front. It's down to other factors now.

 

[Austan]

Let's get back to the ratios & numbers... I am sure that the HD DVD lead is at least in par with the players ratio 7:1. If we were talking ratios, then it looks bad for Blu Ray. If we talk numbers then it not that big of a deal. 70,000 * 8.4 = 588000 vs 84000. It's like being 3rd in a race of 5 people. If the numbers were 7,000,000 to 1,000,000 that's a huge deal. That's like being 3rd in a race of 10,000. Again, this is only an example of how to manipulate numbers and ratios. In the race examples you finish 3rd in both races and I am only trying to explain that its different when you have 5 people racing or 10,000. In the Home Video market the potential sales is in the 10s - 100s of millions, so 588,000 is a small drop in the bucket.

Again, let's wait until the post holiday numbers are released. There are many questions yet to be un answered.

1) How will the Sony, Panasonic, Pioneer, Philips stand alone player sell?
2) After the initial HD DVD early adopters, will the next phase of consumers buy?
3) Will Sony make enough PS3?
4) Will PS3 owners make and impact on Blu Ray movie purchases?
5) Will prices drop on either format?
6) Will another CE manufacturer make a stand alone HD DVD player?
7) Will movies selection continue to expand with good tittles?

If you want to support your preferred format, no need to bash the other. Just buy a player and 8.4 movies!!!

 

[Bob Black]

Not so sure I agree on that one, as BD still has its share of recent clunkers while "Batman Begins" and "Charlie...Chocolate Factory" continue to raise the bar.

That said, do we move on to other comparisons? Like price? And interactive features on the discs? Or advanced audio codecs being utilized? HD-DVD wins in all these areas as well.

 

[MarekM]

I don't have that pleasure too, I am also measuring mainly due many review cites around, and I am sure that several titles MATCHED quality,... and as Tim an Bret mentioned, we are moving past the point of wher quality of PICTURE is almost identical for most movies, of course not for all...

Marek

 

[MarekM]

I can agree on BB, I have yet to see BB, but just from reviews I know it is AMAZING, hopefully, for example KINGDOM OF HEAVEN or BLACK HAWK DOWN or ICE AGE 2 or PEARL HARBOR will do same for BD camp... and yes I am still waiting too for advanced audio codecs, but till then UNCOMPRESSED PCM WILL DO SUPER for me..........

Marek

 

[MarekM]

Bob,

I am in same position, trying to READ as much reviews as I can, from higly refarded and trusted to personal reviews of fans

I did not SAW Dinosaur, and personaly I don't believe YOU if you say that is not better than SD DVD, noise on CLICK coudl be caused by lens they used when shooting on digital....

well I can't say for ALL HD OWNERS that they are FAVORING HD-DVD releases, otherwise we will not be talking about TWO CAMPS

Marek

 

[ppltd]

As we now have the same movies released on both formats, we can begin seeing if their are differences. I have reread many reviews, including those of WideScreen Review, and almost to a tie, they all give HD a slight edge, many calling is a more 3 dimensional look.

Could be the hardware, sure. But if HD id producing movies, albiet only slightly better, from hardware that retails for half of the price, and is limited, as the BD camp says, to only 1080i, the results should be oppisite.

BD is banking on percieved futures, HD on current realities.

As I now own both BD and HD players, I will no longer have to rely on reviews notes, but can now rent a title in both formats and see for myself. Maybe you should do likewise.

 

[ppltd]

One problem that has plauged BD from the beginning is consistency problems. And I am not talking from film to film, but within the same title. This problem may have eased (at least with the WB releases) but it has not gone. HD has not had this problem.

As far as the quality of both camps HD releases, I am currently not as much concerned about problems from the Masters, but more with the ability of the format to produce a consistant good product. BD is a long way from winning my 'buy it sight unseen' approval, whereas I will purchase an HD disk pretty much sight unseen, knowing that if the are 'problems' with the disk, it is probably due to a mediocre master, not a problem with the format.