Harry Potter & The Order of the Phoenix discussion...

Discussion in 'Movies' started by todd s, Jan 5, 2006.

  1. Josh.C

    Josh.C Second Unit

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    It's been a while since I've read the book. Don't know why I came away with that picture of her in my head.

    I do know that I hated her.
     
  2. MielR

    MielR Advanced Member

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    I agree, Mr. Gambon just didn't fit the role very well. Richard Harris was so fantastic, and I was hoping that Harris' old drinking buddy Peter O'Toole would replace him in the role. [​IMG]
     
  3. RyanTSI

    RyanTSI Agent

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    The thing is Most actors worth their salt aren't going to want to take on a roll to imitate another actors take on a character. Which is a shame because Harris hit the nail on the head. Gambon not so much in my opinion. He could be directed better as well i would say.

    The scene in GOF when harry's name comes out of the goblet is just not dumbledore at all.
     
  4. Sean Laughter

    Sean Laughter Screenwriter

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    Quite frankly, I had absolutely no problem with Gambon as Dumbledore in POA, but the characterization was absolutely horrible in GOF. I'm more inclined to lay the blame at the director in terms of those performances just because they are SO different that it's hard to imagine the same actor could come up with such vastly different characterizations for the same character - unless Gambon just totally overestimated the amount of stress Dumbledore is feeling due to the situation in GOF.
     
  5. Sean Bryan

    Sean Bryan Sean Bryan
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    [​IMG]

    http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20016352,00.html

    Entertainment weekly article on The Order of the Phoenix


    A pretty decent article. There's a section that mentions the plot points that don't make the film:


    I'm disappointed that the stuff with Neville's parents isn't used. That isn't just throwaway filler, that expands on the character of Neville and helps you to hate Bellatrix Lestrange.

    I'll miss the Weasley is our King Quidditch stuff, but it is understandable for that to go, since it is basically throwaway filler stuff (yet good and fun).

    Dobby? Screw Dobby.

    I also thought it was interesting that they say that Yates is expected to return to direct The Halfblood Prince as well (shooting begins this September).

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  6. Adam_S

    Adam_S Producer

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    the shortest movie yet? why do the producers keep thinking a short run time is an asset? Azkaban was the previous shortest and it was the lowest grossing of the series (also a summer release). Very silly.
     
  7. DavidPla

    DavidPla Cinematographer

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    But it turned out to be the best one.
     
  8. Adam_S

    Adam_S Producer

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    it was the best at the time, but it was most hurt of the films by the decision to compress the running time. Goblet of Fire was a better adaptation and a better film, imo.
     
  9. Adam Lenhardt

    Adam Lenhardt Executive Producer

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    Quote:



    Originally Posted by Sean Bryan
    [​IMG]

    http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20016352,00.html

    Entertainment weekly article on The Order of the Phoenix


    A pretty decent article.




    It was indeed. Thanks for posting it and jumpstarting this dicussion.
    Quote:



    I'm disappointed that the stuff with Neville's parents isn't used. That isn't just throwaway filler, that expands on the character of Neville and helps you to hate Bellatrix Lestrange.




    According to reports from the Chicago screening, the actual plot point isn't gone. To save time, instead of actually seeing them in the hospital — which I agree would still work the best — things are brought to a head in a different scene, and Neville unable to take it anymore, pulls Harry aside and just blurts it out, leaving Harry basically speechless.

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    I'll miss the Weasley is our King Quidditch stuff, but it is understandable for that to go, since it is basically throwaway filler stuff (yet good and fun).




    Yeah, it's not essential to the plot. I hope the scene where Harry and the twins are banned from Quiddich makes it in and that there is some mention of Ginny replacing Harry as seeker. Her being on the team is essential to the next book/movie.
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    Dobby? Screw Dobby.




    I love Dobby, but I agree that the amount of time it would have taken to reintroduce Dobby just so he can drop a plot point is unwarranted. Hopefully they do an organic smooth over job, like Neville giving Harry the gillyweed in Goblet of Fire.
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    I also thought it was interesting that they say that Yates is expected to return to direct The Halfblood Prince as well (shooting begins this September).




    We'll have to wait and see on this movie before knowing whether that's a good thing or bad. The promotional pictures for this movie haven't been nearly as inspiring as the ones for the previous films. Having the six kids against a shoddy brick wall in the above photo, for instance, doesn't seem to bring the same cinematic expansion. That said, the sparce surroundings match what was described in the book.
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    The Newell set for the courtroom isn't anything how I imagine it when I read the book, but I have to admit it works quite well. Harry looks perfect. I love the way Molly has very obviously tried to tame his hair.[​IMG]

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    Gary Oldman positively nails the look of Sirius here. Both the weathered recluse look, AND the dashing gentleman. They neatened him up from being the ragged escaped prisoner in POA without making him look unrecognizable. Bravo.
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    I actually think Lucius is an improvement over his COS look, here. The clothes have a more believable texture about them.
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    Imelda Staunton really embodies Umbridge here. She looks like she lept out of an illustration. Has a face I want to smack just looking at it. Perfect.
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    Probably the closest embodiment of one of the student characters yet. From the radish earrings to those gigantic, misty eyes, pretty much exactly as I imagined Luna (though with lighter and less wavy hair)
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    Bonnie Wright proved she had the spunk for the role in Goblet of Fire, maximizing the impact of the few one-liners she was given. This picture proves she's grown up enough to be a realistic match for Harry by the next film. The smiling little girl with the ponytail is gone; this young lady has a stare that's almost challenging. Perfect!
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    How much you want to bet it's Grawp
    that they're all staring at?[​IMG]
    Quote:



    Originally Posted by Adam_S
    the shortest movie yet? why do the producers keep thinking a short run time is an asset? Azkaban was the previous shortest and it was the lowest grossing of the series (also a summer release). Very silly.




    It all depends on how it's cut. If, like Prisoner of Azkaban, it's short because there's a lot of 30 second scenes, then it's definitely a problem. If, after cutting out all of the extraneous and/or literary subplots, the scenes that left comfortably come out to that running time, I'm not too worried. I love all the the mess and subplots of the book, but many can be lost without impacting the progression of the narrative. I'm okay with fewer but longer scenes. I'm not okay with too many scenes crammed into too little time.
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    Originally Posted by DavidPla
    But it turned out to be the best one.




    There's a lot to like about Azkaban, but it's an uncomfortably fast-paced movie. Scenes come and go too fast to have real impact. It took me two or three viewings until I could engage with it at the speed that it demanded. An extra ten or twenty minutes to let scenes breath would have helped that film immensely.
    Quote:



    Originally Posted by Adam_S
    it was the best at the time, but it was most hurt of the films by the decision to compress the running time. Goblet of Fire was a better adaptation and a better film, imo.




    Goblet of Fire is my favorite too. If it weren't for the riddiculous and out-of-character ending to Chamber of Secrets, it'd be my second favorite. As it is, though, Prisoner of Azkaban edges it out. Philosopher's (Sorcerer's) Stone, burdened as it was with introducing these characters and establishing this world, comes in last by a comfortable margin. Newell's greatest success was editing for character, not for action or plot. The plot is severely compromised in GOF, but the characters shine through. And instead of just coming and going as required to move the story forward, they're weaving in and out of each other and interacting all of the time. It was the first time we really saw how the secondary characters related with each other. Considering that the focus of Order of the Pheonix shifts even more to the secondary characters, I hope Yates employs a similar tactic. (Especially considering the plot in OOTP isn't all that dense or engaging:Harry is zeroed in on Voldemort's brain, with cryptic dreams leading to mysterious places. Voldemort eventually uses this to trick him, Ron, Hermione, Neville, Luna and Ginny into a sabotage at the Ministry of Magic. That's the most essential part. If they get that and the increasingly militant Ministry storyline in, they've done their job.
     
  10. Adam_S

    Adam_S Producer

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    beautiful analysis Adam, that's it exactly, Newell edited for character and it made all the difference, it felt right, rather than being literally faithful to the variety of scenes. I still respect the sense of wonder in the first two movies for being about the world more than the characters or plot, but it's an enormous, critical flaw. The ridiculous endings really hurts Chamber of Secrets which was almost better than Sorcerer's Stone (especially in light of information revealed in Half Blood Prince).

    I'd really love to see the same director on board for six or seven, and I think since they're more of a continuous story that's what WB is looking for. Finish the last two with the same director like the first two had the same director, I think that's why Cuaron hasn't come back, they wanted to sign him for both films and he didn't want to commit the next four-five years. I think Joe Wright would make the best fucking pair of movies in the entire series if they got him on board, Atonement is genius filmmaking and a helluva an adaptation along with a truly astonishing performance by the key child actress. And Pride and Prejudice was pretty damn good too. How cool would it be for the director of the latest Pride and Prejudice adaptation to take the reins on Harry Potter? It'd be a perfect fit.

    And I love those pictures of Luna and Ginny, perfect portraits!
     
  11. Chuck Mayer

    Chuck Mayer Lead Actor

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    Oddly enough, I feel Adam Lenhardt's criticisms for PoA are exactly mine for GoF. Every subplot is given one scene. And that's it. GoF may be character-driven (which is good), but it feels almost pedestrian in comparison to PoA, which Cuaron infused with a magical touch. For the first time in the series, I felt I was at Hogwarts, not a set. I felt like GoF was a running tour of the book, not it's own entity. It was still the second best film of the series, and easily so.
     
  12. Tim Glover

    Tim Glover Lead Actor

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    I'm with Chuck here on how magical PoA was. It's my favorite by far....I do like the original though too. Just kind of cool and Richard Harris. He was just awesome.

    My ranking...not that it matters would be:

    1. Prizoner of Azkaban
    2. Sorcerer's Stone
    3. Goblet of Fire
    4. Chamber of Secrets

    Goblet & Chamber are pretty close though for me.

    We already know how rich & magical the soundtrack is for Azkaban. It's certainly one of Williams best. I NEVER grow tired of hearing it. He just nailed it. Perhaps that might be part of why I love PoA so much.

    Not reading too much of this thread since I haven't read The Order of Phoenix but wanted to chime in. [​IMG]
     
  13. DavidPla

    DavidPla Cinematographer

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    I actually think Chamber of Secrets is the WORST one in the series. It was WAY too long. Anytime I try to attempt to watch it I begin falling asleep near the end. That's why I think anything under 2 and half hours only serves the films. It's not Lord of the Rings to sustain 3 hours.
     
  14. Sean Bryan

    Sean Bryan Sean Bryan
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    Adam, I'm glad to hear that the story points about Neville's parents haven't been completely dropped. That's a good thing.



    I definitely think that Warner Brothers missed a great opportunity with these films. From the start, they should have allowed for the idea of "extended editions". I think they should have written and filmed extra/alternate scenes for each film with the intention of putting together extended editions just like Peter Jackson did with The Lord of the Rings. At the very least, they should put out longer cuts with some of the better deleted scenes added back in.

    I can definitely "let go of the books" and enjoy the movies for what they are, movies. But it always bugs me a bit that they either didn't have the vision (or just didn't care) to plan for extended versions for the fans who would appreciate them. Sure, they wouldn't appeal to everyone, but there would definitely be an audience for them.
     
  15. DavidJ

    DavidJ Producer
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    Well, not that it matters, but I tend to agree with your rankings although I might put GOF at four.
     
  16. Adam_S

    Adam_S Producer

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    1. Goblet of Fire
    2. Prisoner of Azkaban
    3. Sorcerer's Stone
    4. Chamber of Secrets

    Secrets and Stone are pretty close while Prisoner and Goblet are way ahead. That said I own three of them on DVD (never bought Chamber for some reason, not deliberate, just never got it) and the only one I've watched since getting the DVD was Goblet of Fire, again, not intentional, but it's the one I think captured everything right, and that's primarily the characters.
     
  17. Ray H

    Ray H Producer

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    Personally:

    1. Prisoner of Azkaban
    2. Goblet of Fire
    3. Chamber of Secrets
    4. Sorceror's Stone

    As others have mentioned, Cuaron added a magical touch to POA. Its biggest problem is that it does have a tendency to move too fast, but it's a great film and very well done. Goblet of Fire is good as well. It's an overall darker movie. In some ways, I feel it almost becomes soul-suckingly dark at times. I would've had a huger problem with it though if some of the darker moments weren't so engaging or needed to be dark. Pretty much the only time the film lightens up is for the Yule Ball, where it had me grinning like a fool. [​IMG] Chamber of Secrets is a good and engaging movie. It's too long though. And unfortunately its ending peters out to oversentimentality. The first film is decent, but its boring and predestrian direction makes me want to fall asleep with each viewing. It only works because of Rowling's story.

    I don't know how this one will turn out. It looks pretty good, but based on the book alone, I'm predicting it'll rank as no. 3 of the five for me.
     
  18. Kevin Grey

    Kevin Grey Cinematographer

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    My ranking as well. And I agree completely with Adam L's reasons for preferring Goblet to Prisoner. I thought the pacing was a bit off in Goblet up through the Quidditch World Cup but perfect after that. Prisoner had that haphazard pacing thorughout and it's really taken me multiple viewings to warm up to it. Also I think the removal of the Marauder's identities was a poor decision.
     
  19. Adam Lenhardt

    Adam Lenhardt Executive Producer

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    It gets to the general distancing of the characters that permeates throughout POA. I think the way the Three Broomsticks scene played out was much more inferior to the way it did in the book, and took more time to boot. Having him hear what he heard in a private room alone and then basically repeating the information again for Ron and Hermione sucked all of the drama out of it. Having him hiding under the table between his friends' legs as all of it spills out in public, having to process than and still maintain composure, is what made it one of the most powerful scenes in the book for me.
    That said, Cuaron deserves a lot of credit for his visual invention. The portrayal of the whipping willow, in particular, continues to tickle my fancy.
     
  20. Adam_S

    Adam_S Producer

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    Atonement doesn't come out until December, I saw an early screening, it's an adaptation of the Ian McEwan book of the same name. It's got cinematography at the level of Children of Men, an editing style as daring as ScorseseSchoonmaker (and, as it turns out, utterly essential to the film's storytelling, themes and overall impact), a perfect score, James McAvoy with a brilliant, shattering performance, Saorise Ronan making the whole movie click with an unlikable but oddly charming character and Keira Knightly giving her best performance yet while being more sexy (and revealing more of herself) than we've ever seen before. It's an incredible movie I'm getting jazzed just thinking about it again. [​IMG]
     

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