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HAMMER FILM BLU-RAYS IN THE U.K. ... getting closer to the Holy Grail (DRACULA, 1958)... (1 Viewer)

Bob Furmanek

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Directly transferring a 35mm optical track negative would generate a lot of hiss, crackle and distortion. You have to make a positive print photochemically from the negative and utilize that element for the audio transfer.
Anybody working in film restoration would know this is how audio transfers are usually done.
If Hammer did a straight xfer of the optical negative, that would explain the audio problems on this release.
 

Alan Tully

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Bob Furmanek said:
Directly transferring a 35mm optical track negative would generate a lot of hiss, crackle and distortion. You have to make a positive print photochemically from the negative and utilize that element for the audio transfer.
Anybody working in film restoration would know this is how audio transfers are usually done.
If Hammer did a straight xfer of the optical negative, that would explain the audio problems on this release.
Ah, so true, plus a lot of sibilance. But Deluxe know this, & they have a film lab where they can knock off a pos. print. I can't believe they would make that mistake, would they?
 

Eastmancolor

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Bob Furmanek said:
Directly transferring a 35mm optical track negative would generate a lot of hiss, crackle and distortion. You have to make a positive print photochemically from the negative and utilize that element for the audio transfer.
Anybody working in film restoration would know this is how audio transfers are usually done.
If Hammer did a straight xfer of the optical negative, that would explain the audio problems on this release.
Bob, I don't believe anyone makes track positives as a rule anymore, though perhaps a few do now and then. For example, many of the older TV shows that have been recently released onto DVD, such as GUNSMOKE and PERRY MASON, have used the original optical soundtrack negatives for their transfers. No positives were made from them. If the equipment is calibrated for negative, you won't get any distortion.
I don't know what Hammer used for RASPUTIN THE MAD MONK but I noticed the new Blu-ray sounds incredibly "tinny" during the opening and closing credit music. That 20th Century-Fox fanfare sounds like it's being piped thru a walkie-talkie. The bulk of the feature isn't as bad, though does sound overly processed. Yet, for being so processed, there's still quite a bit of hiss in the background.
If you want to hear awful soundtracks sourced from track negatives that were improperly transferred, try watching the Kino Blu-rays to BIRD OF PARADISE or LOST KEATON: SIXTEEN COMEDY SHORTS.
 

Eastmancolor

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Just watched the new Blu-ray to THE MUMMY'S SHROUD. This film has never had a stellar reputation, though I've always had a soft spot for it. Some would likely say that soft spot is between my ears. No matter, I recognize it as being lower-grade Hammer, yet there are still plenty of good things in it.
The picture quality is a real mixed bag on this one. While it's a mile or two ahead of how THE CURSE OF FRANKENSTEIN looks, it appears that they may have done a "one-light" or "best light" transfer. Most of the darker scenes are dead-on, but all of the brightly lit scenes are overly contrasty and a bit blown out. Not to mention skin tones seem to be off a lot of the time. The aspect ratio is 1.66 and appears to be correct. The sound quality is fine. Overall this disc is more satisfying than the old DVD release, but it's not as good as it could have been with just a bit more care and supervision by a knowing eye.
I hope they spend the needed time and effort on the upcoming DRACULA release. It would be a shame if they cut corners on that one.
 

Bob Furmanek

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Somebody just sent me this before/after comparison from THE DEVIL RIDES OUT.
Did they really alter the film like that or is someone playing a joke?
 

t1g3r5fan

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If the altered version of the film comes out here, I think it would be better to hold on to your unaltered DVD of the movie.
 

bgart13

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Bob, I put a bunch of comparisons here: http://thelatarniaforums.yuku.com/topic/11210/DEVIL-RIDES-New-UK-BluRay-tampers-original-film?page=4 . There's some of it that works rather well, but as just about every other levelheaded person has said - no original recipe is ridiculous. The DOCTOR WHO folks can do it, why can't Hammer?
 

Bob Furmanek

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Ah, thanks Ben, I hadn't seen that before.
Wow, that's quite a bit of revisionism.
Was the director involved in this process?
 

Mark Oates

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Bob Furmanek said:
Ah, thanks Ben, I hadn't seen that before.
Wow, that's quite a bit of revisionism.
Was the director involved in this process?
Possibly via Ouija board. Depending on the connection. ;)
 

Yorkshire

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bgart13 said:
Bob, I put a bunch of comparisons here: http://thelatarniaforums.yuku.com/topic/11210/DEVIL-RIDES-New-UK-BluRay-tampers-original-film?page=4 . There's some of it that works rather well, but as just about every other levelheaded person has said - no original recipe is ridiculous. The DOCTOR WHO folks can do it, why can't Hammer?
Totally agree. Some changes have an arguable validity, but the original should always be present. And the thing is, it's only a few minor changes. Creating an alternate version via seamless branching would only have involved a few extra minutes - even seconds - of film on the disc.
The reason this doesn't bother me more is that the effects they've changed were always absolutely abysmal on the original, and detract from what is otherwise a quite splendid film. To be honest, I couldn't be more 'taken out' of the original version if Sooty & Sweep popped up and had an argument about biblical hermeneutics. In German.
Steve W
 

John Hodson

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Like so many other things, new Hammer just doesn't get this. The film without the effects exists on the old DVD they say, so what's the problem? Well, the problem is that the film Terence Fisher directed - albeit slightly disappointed that the effects weren't better - hasn't been presented fully restored, that folks who buy this BD don't get an opportunity to see it, may not even know it exists. And it's this tampered with version that's doing the circuit now in the UK, theatrically.
Clear, after the fact, artistic decisions have been taken with these new effects with no involvement by anyone who made the original. And thus, that film, which many Hammer fans have seen countless times and are deeply familiar - crap effects and all - has been assimilated by 21st century technology. The film that Fisher signed off is, essentially, being consigned to the dustbin of history.
Hammer could easily have made all fans happy, yet chose not to. Bizarre.
 

RobHam

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Yorkshire said:
Totally agree. Some changes have an arguable validity, but the original should always be present. And the thing is, it's only a few minor changes. Creating an alternate version via seamless branching would only have involved a few extra minutes - even seconds - of film on the disc.
The reason this doesn't bother me more is that the effects they've changed were always absolutely abysmal on the original, and detract from what is otherwise a quite splendid film. To be honest, I couldn't be more 'taken out' of the original version if Sooty & Sweep popped up and had an argument about biblical hermeneutics. In German.
Steve W
I'm with you on this one (Sooty & Sweep). This could have been Mr Fisher's finest hour, but he was stuck with some ridiculous effects that devalued the entire film. I was too young to see this theatrically but wonder if there was unintentiional laughter from the 1960's audience at the end.
I like what they've apparently done to it via the pics above, but agree that the original should have been made available as an alternative
 

Bob Furmanek

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I don't know.
Altering a film to this degree and not offering the original puts it on a VERY slippery slope. And if they get a free pass on this, it opens the door to all sorts of additional tampering and revisionism.
I can't say that I agree with this mindset.
 

RobHam

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With George Lukas and Ridley Scott opening the door to tinkering and revisionism of their films, maybe Hammer have seen an opportunity to fix flaws in one of their Big Ticket movies - the only snag being that Terence Fisher is long gone and can't approve the changes. I have The Devil Rides Out on DVD in one of Hammer's many box-sets - what they've done to improve atmospherics on the climax has made me itching to see this new version.
This evening I started looking at all the dvd covers I have of Hammer movies, and my thoughts on them these days. Away from the monsters cycle, one of the most ambitious movies they ever made was Quatermass and the Pit - but again let down by poor giggle-inducing special effects. Nigel Kneale's original script for this could be used again virtually intact, and the film re-made with CGI effects - I think it would scare the bejeezus out a modern audience.
 

John Hodson

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Actually, the effects used in the BBC's earlier TV version of QATP are actually *better* than the later film; but it's not effects that drive a Nigel Kneale script, it's performances and direction and no matter how good CGI could be in a modern iteration it would have to go a long way to beat either the BBC or the Hammer productions. IMHO.
I can't bring myself to buy the new BD of TDRO, BTW, because (a) I don't approve and (b) buying it would signal my approval. Hammer can take a running jump.
 

Bob Furmanek

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You know, I wonder if they can improve on some of the shock effects in DRACULA and add more gore?
 

Yorkshire

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Bob Furmanek said:
I don't know.
Altering a film to this degree and not offering the original puts it on a VERY slippery slope. And if they get a free pass on this, it opens the door to all sorts of additional tampering and revisionism.
I can't say that I agree with this mindset.
I don't think anyone is disagreeing with that. So far I think everyone has said the original should be there.
The only thing I'd disagree with is that I don't think it's the start of a slippery slope, but the end.
Steve W
 

Yorkshire

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John Hodson said:
Actually, the effects used in the BBC's earlier TV version of QATP are actually *better* than the later film; but it's not effects that drive a Nigel Kneale script, it's performances and direction and no matter how good CGI could be in a modern iteration it would have to go a long way to beat either the BBC or the Hammer productions. IMHO.
I can't bring myself to buy the new BD of TDRO, BTW, because (a) I don't approve and (b) buying it would signal my approval. Hammer can take a running jump.
I'm way past such attempts at moral engineering.
The studios will hear the discussion at their blog and elsewhere as loudly as anything else - I doubt the relatively few enthusiasts who frequent these places could dent sales enough to make a difference if every single one of us boycotted the disc - let alone only a portion of us.
As Lowell Levin once said “Sometimes it is necessary to forget your principles and do the right thing”. I've never been one to cut my nose off to spite my own face.
Steve W
 

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