GoodFellas HD-DVD cropped to fit 16x9 HDTV?

Discussion in 'Blu-ray and UHD' started by Paul Hillenbrand, May 3, 2006.

  1. Paul Hillenbrand

    Paul Hillenbrand Screenwriter

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    The GoodFellas HD DVD Main Feature Video specs reads 1080P High Definition 16x9 1.78:1.

    Not having the SD version of GoodFellas, I checked DVD Empire which has the following:
    GoodFellas: 2 Disc Special Edition / DVD-Video
    Widescreen 1.85:1[​IMG] Color (Anamorphic)

    Which format has the correct OAR?[​IMG]

    Paul
     
  2. Steve Phillips

    Steve Phillips Screenwriter

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    I can't tell the difference between 1:78 to 1 and 1:85 to 1 movies on my set.
     
  3. Chris Moreau

    Chris Moreau Stunt Coordinator

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    The original film would have been in 1.85:1 -- the most commonly used aspect ratio for film. The 1.78:1 (16X9) ratio of widescreen television is extremely close, so little information is actually lost. With the overscan of most television monitors, it would be lost, anyway.

    Now, if the original film had been in a "scope" format, 2.35:1, and were cropped to 1.78:1 (as HBO-HD routinely does), that would be something to be upset about.
     
  4. Mark-P

    Mark-P Producer

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    Like nearly all Warner DVDs that were shot spherically,the 2-disc special edition DVD of Goodfellas is also presented in 1.78:1. Most likely, nothing is cropped, only the mattes opened up a tiny bit.
     
  5. TonyD

    TonyD Who do we think I am?
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    well a plasma and lcd doesnt have any overscan, is that right?

    so they would show any bars that were to be seen?
     
  6. Paul Hillenbrand

    Paul Hillenbrand Screenwriter

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    Personally, I feel that the directors artistic intent is always of the utmost importance and this includes the Original Aspect Ratio of a film.
    No matter how small an amount is cut off from the sides of GoodFellas, to make it a "FULL SCREEN" version for a 16x9 HDTV, I will not ever be able to see the "FULL FRAME" picture, when using this disc as the source, on my home theater screen.[​IMG]

    No overscan there!

    Videophiles need to voice their disapproval to the studios, especially now for this fledgeling format.

    Without videophile feedback, this could become as rampant as pan and scan is on NTSC DVD for 4x3 television's joe six-pack crowd, HBO-HD being another contributing factor via their broadcasts.

    Paul
     
  7. Jean-Michel

    Jean-Michel Supporting Actor

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    It already is. 1.85:1 films are frequently transferred at "taller" ARs (typically 1.78:1, but 1.80-1.82:1 is sometimes seen as well), much as Academy ratio films are usually transferred at 1.33:1 instead of 1.37:1. I wouldn't be surprised if a couple of the HD DVDs already on the market follow this practice. It's hardly a new thing and it's not as if people don't notice, but you don't see a whole lot of videophile feedback about it because most videophiles feel that a ~4% variance in framing is not worth getting worked up about (you see wider variation when a film is projected). Super35 and anamorphic widescreen films being transferred at 1.78:1 is indeed a real problem and should be resisted, but 1.85:1 films transferred at 1.78:1 (or 1.37:1 films transferred at 1.33:1 or 2.35:1 films transferred at 2.30-2.32:1) don't really get the blood boiling.
     
  8. Ed St. Clair

    Ed St. Clair Producer

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    If this is indeed the case, we have HD on disc first OAR victim.
    As we feared, going back to last year, the HBO syndrome has infected the newest HD format.

    Is the print in the same shape as the last DVD offering?
     
  9. Kyle_D

    Kyle_D Second Unit

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    What Jean-Michel said.

    Guys - This practice has been going on for YEARS on DVD. Most 1.85:1 films are transfered at 1.78:1 nowadays. If you didn't notice or get bothered then, there's no reason to get bothered now. Second, NOTHING is being cut off in these transfers. The mattes have simply been opened ever so slightly and the differences in framing/composition are virtually indistinguishable. I even seem to remember a post by RAH in another thread awhile back where he stated that there's nothing to get worked up over 1.78:1 transfers.
     
  10. Steve Schaffer

    Steve Schaffer Producer

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    I think there's a huge difference between HBO cropping a 2:35 movie to 1:78 and openning up the matte from 1:85 to 1:78.

    The print is probably the same one used for the most recent sd dvd transfer, but it's not the same transfer, of course. The only really noticeable flaw I saw was a very narrow vertical black line down the center of the screen during one short shot during the part where Paulie is lecturing Henry to go back to his wife in Henry's girlfriend's apartment--saw the same thing on the anamorphic sd special edition.
     
  11. Michael TLV

    Michael TLV THX Video Instructor/Calibrator

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    Greetings

    Actually Plasma and LCD sets have overscan just like every other consumer display type. It is needed to hide things that have nothing to do with the TV (problems on the broadcast end), but would cost the TV maker money if not done.

    2.5 to 4% seems typical on the digital displays.

    Regards
     
  12. Mark Zimmer

    Mark Zimmer Producer

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    Virtually all Warner releases that were projected in 1.85:1 were released on DVD at 1.78:1. The fact that no one noticed until Warner printed the number on a case says volumes about the impact upon the image.
     
  13. Matt Hough

    Matt Hough Executive Producer
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    I understand the OP's concerns, but I'd rather save my ire for more serious battles. When we see 2.35:1 films cropped to 1.78:1 for HD presentation on disc (as HBO and a number of other HD movie channels do), that's when I'll go into militia mode.
     
  14. TonyD

    TonyD Who do we think I am?
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    yes but if wb starts with this and no one complains they may then start with wider films thinnking no one will complain.

    i've always wondered why wb never disclosed a/r on their sd dvd specs.
     
  15. Richard Kim

    Richard Kim Producer

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    The current Special Edition DVD of GoodFellas is anamorphic 1.78:1.
     
  16. Chris Moreau

    Chris Moreau Stunt Coordinator

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    I think most of us here would scream bloody murder if they start cropping 2.35 films to 1.78. However, as others have said, cropping (or opening up) 1.85 to 1.78 has been going on all along, and very few have ever commented (or noticed, for that matter). I simply can't see getting all worked up over opening the matte for that tiny amount. Also, as I said earlier, if they put in those little tiny black bars, they'd be hidden by the overscan on most sets, anyway.
     
  17. Paul Hillenbrand

    Paul Hillenbrand Screenwriter

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    Sounds good to me![​IMG]
     
  18. Michael TLV

    Michael TLV THX Video Instructor/Calibrator

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    Greetings

    Warner uses words like "matted" and "scope" to differentiate the aspect ratio on the DVD's. If "matted" ... it's 1.85 ... originally.

    Regards
     
  19. Thomas Agermose

    Thomas Agermose Stunt Coordinator

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    Warner does print the aspect ratio on their region 2 dvd's.
    The Region 2 DVD of Goodfellas is 1.85:1 according to the cover.
     
  20. Marko Berg

    Marko Berg Supporting Actor

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    I'd be surprised if the Region 2 DVD was framed differently. Most of the time, DVD cover specs refer to the original theatrical aspect ratio rather than that of the actual DVD release. Also, the aspect ratio information on the cover is often preceded by the word "approximately."
     

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