GOLDFINGER : will 'missing frames' issue be fixed for blu-ray?! (1 Viewer)

[Brandon Conway]

Well, if that's the case, I would think that Lowry's only solution for the 4k restoration was that they removed the heavily damaged frames since they couldn't restore them.

 

[Reagan]

Jay,

Nice summary. If I recall correctly, the music also skips during the problem portion.

-R

 

[MielR]

A better solution would have been to find the frames in another print and replace them. I'm sure that not every print of Goldfinger in existence is damaged in that area.

Besides- the frames were removed before Lowry got their hands on it. The frames were also missing on the previous (SE) DVD edition.


Hopefully, the right "blu-ray people" were made aware of the problem by this thread or someone on this forum who knows who to contact at MGM (or Fox, or whoever has the rights now).

 

[Jari K]

Is this the Criterion LD, which included that "pulled/banned" Audio commentary?

New Page 2

"1991: Criterion Collection W/S CAV"

"First widescreen transfer (1.75 x 1) with digital (mono) sound. Originally released in CAV format with 2nd audio commentary and many extras. Gatefold jacket. Discontinued because of producers dislike of some supposedly "demeaning remarks" in the running commentary. Replaced with a CLV version (minus commentary) which is still available, albeit with no extras except a trailer."

Can you take any screenshots (LD vs. DVD)?

I should have this in DVD-R (with those other Criterion Bond-titles with "rare" Audio commentaries), so perhaps I could also try to compare (when I get that Blu-ray-release)..

 

[MielR]

Yes, it's the Criterion LD with the banned commentary, but I believe the video portion is the same even on the re-released Criterion LD (with the commentaries removed).

I don't know if I can take screen shots- maybe I can figure something out tonight.

 

[Nelson Au]

I have the Criterion LD with the banned audio commentary and I can do caps. The scene is when Odd Job takes Mr. Solo off the main road and shoots him? How come I never noticed the missing frames before!

 

[Carter of Mars]

Because they are minor and inconsequential.

 

[Nelson Au]

I just had a look at the Criterion laserdisc of Goldfinger. On side three the last chapter is "Mr. Solo's short trip". After the Lincoln leaves Auric's stud farm, you see it drive down a main street and as it passes the camera panning it, you see a flash for 3 or 4 frames. I don't think it's from the car, it looks like the film elements. Like it was accidentally exposed to light. I watched all the way to the part when they crush the Lincoln.

I replayed the scene from the first DVD box set from 1999. The flash is still there. There is a slight jump cut. As the Lincoln rounds the turn right before Odd Job kills Mr. Solo. But I didn't see anything wrong with the laserdisc to account for the missing frames. At most, 2 or 3 frames is my guess.

I miss the days of LD's! No menus and fast scanning forward and back.

Edit-

I had some time this evening to take another look at the Criterion LD of GoldFinger, I take it back, the scene I described above where the Lincoln rounds a turn also has a slight jump. I then checked the Ultimate Collection DVD of Goldfinger. Looks the same. Same flash as the Lincoln drives by and the same slight jump as it rounds the turn right before Odd Job kills Mr. Solo. So as far as I can tell, no cuts. Amazing to see the three iterations back to back. The LD looks pretty crisp, but full of dust and scratches and defects. The 1999 disc is okay, some edge enhancement and the Ultimate Edition looks very nice. Look forward to the Blu Ray in 2 months.

 

[MielR]

It's not that minor if you're watching the scene closely- on the DVDs, the car is in one position on the road, and then suddenly jumps to another spot (along with all the other cars in the shot). If the defect is carried over onto the Blu-ray, it will be even more noticeable, especially on a large screen.

 

[Nelson Au]

The thing is, I didn't see any difference between the Criterion LD, the 1999 DVD or the UE DVD during the scene when the Lincoln rounds the turn. In each version, it skips to the right a bit. That's why I didn't try to do caps. There's no difference to my eye. And I don't recall hearing any differences in the music. It could be the original released film is this way. If you'd like, I can do it this weekend.

I could even pull out the really old MGM Laserdisc set and see how that one compares. I'm not trying to prove you wrong, just trying to get to the heart of the problem.

 

[MielR]

I definitely see that there is a problem at that point on the Criterion LD- the frames move from side to side a bit (suggesting damage) but on the UE DVD the frames are just....gone. I can see it at normal speed but if you have a way to watch them in slo-mo you might be able to see it better.

I don't have the older LD so I don't know about that one.

EDIT: This is the page in the UE thread where the problem was first discussed:
http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htf/...ml#post3252395

 

[Douglas Monce]

Based on the info in your edit, it seems likely that the Criterion version came from a Technicolor answer print, where as all other versions have come either from an internegative or the original camera negatives themselves.

My guess is that the missing frames are actually on the ON. It was stated at the time of the Lowery restoration that, at least for the Connery films, the original camera negatives were used.


Doug

 

[MielR]

Is it common practice to cut frames out of a camera negative? That seems awfully destructive.

 

[Nelson Au]

My curiosity got to me!

I don't know if this will help much, but I took some screen caps from the Criterion Goldfinger laserdisc. Hopefully this won't bog down loading times!

By the way, I took some extra time and effort to re-connect my laserdisc player into my main home theater set-up too. I watched the scene several times on my 50" screen. I also watched the same scene on the 1995 MGM laserdisc and UE DVD.

What I can see after viewing this a few times is that it appears to me that someone may have bumped into the camera. Seems like a simple explanation. It will be hard to see in the caps, the first shot is right before the jump, the second cap is at the jump point and the third cap is right after the jump.

Look at the sign on the left and the lamp post on the right. It looks like the camera shifted to the right and then back. Make your own conclusions!

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[MielR]

It loaded fine for me, Nelson. Thanks for putting those up.

I'm seeing 3 frames- are there supposed to be more?

Lyle_JP also suggested in the quote above that it looked like something hit the camera, except that with the side-to-side movement only affecting 3 frames, it was more likely sprocket damage.

 

[Nelson Au]

Miel- You're welcome. It was my pleasure. It was nice to see a laserdisc again. What I miss is the ability to so quickly scan frames and use the jog wheel on the remote to easily move forward and back to review those frames.

I guess we'll never know what was the cause of those frames shifting. My guess, based on what I can see is the camera was bumped. If the UE DVD has those frames cut, then it could mean the shift is in the original negative. Since the Criterion source appears to have all the frames intact, I can see it fixed in the digital realm.

Maybe John Cork or the other Bond experts would know!

Opps, forgot to mention, with the video file in my computer, I used the left/right key to frame by frame see that sequence. I counted 3 or 4 depending on how you count the frames before during and after. But I think it was 3 and 1/2 frames because a fourth frame looks blurred. I believe it's the same when I use the jog wheel on the actual Laserdisc.

 

[MielR]

Yup- it would be very easy to re-align the frames digitally.

Just for fun, I sent an email to Lowry Digital. I probably won't get a response (the email probably won't even reach the right person). But I'll let you know.

I would have sent an email to MGM too- but I don't even know where to begin as far as who the heck is in charge of those sort of things.

 

[Douglas Monce]

Being a very popular film its possible that its damage from one of the many times that it was used to make prints for a re-release.

Doug

 

[Douglas Monce]

The Criterion release is from an NTSC transfer and wouldn't be useful for restoration. They might be able to do it if that print still exists and hasn't faded.

Doug

 

[MielR]

Well, got a response from Lowry:

"Hi Miel,
Thanks for your kind attention to “Goldfinger”. We’re very proud of the work we do.
MGM made all of the creative decisions relative to the Bond library (as do all our restoration clients). We invented, and provide, the toolset to accomplish the restorations to the taste, and under the guidance of, our clientele. In the case of “Goldfinger” we were provided with original negative, which we digitized prior to the actual restoration work. I cannot say if the negative was somehow altered prior to scanning and since other versions were released.
We’ve had some interesting feedback about the Bonds. In one case, it was observed that we changed a scene from previous telecine transfers when in fact previous issues contained a telecine fix that was not in the original negative. In some cases we were expressly directed not to change errors in principal photography because audiences were familiar with, and would prefer the flaws.
In any event, feedback means people are watching and interested, and that’s great. Your comments may encourage a more detailed response if you direct them to the content owner, in this case MGM. MGM has undergone many personnel changes over the last couple years, and distribution rights have moved as well. Perhaps it would be best to refer you to Eon in the UK. You may find contact info for MGM and Eon on their websites.
Kind regards,
Alan Silvers
Director/Business Development
Lowry Digital"