Frozen 3D Bungle?!

Discussion in 'Blu-ray and UHD' started by Ronald Epstein, Nov 27, 2013.

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  1. Jason_V

    Jason_V Producer

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    This whole Frozen thing is now comical. This is the fourth highest grossing animated film ever for Disney, continuing to play in theaters well after it was released at Thanksgiving. There's a quasi-release date (depending on what you read). And my comments from over a week ago still stand.

    Communication, Disney, is going to solve all your problems. Are they waiting to release Thor 2 in February in order to start the PR push? Or will this be one of those mysteries we'll never get the true story on?
     
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  2. Yorkshire

    Yorkshire Screenwriter

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    Okay, Disney but not Pixar.

    But is there a Pixar Short (or similar) on the disc?

    Cheers.

    Steve W
     
  3. Stephen_J_H

    Stephen_J_H All Things Film Junkie
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    Get a Horse plays with Frozen theatrically. As previously indicated in this thread, Paperman was included with Wreck-It Ralph, so there's no reason not to include Get a Horse with Frozen.
     
  4. Ronald Epstein

    Ronald Epstein Administrator
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    Hey guys...

    First, I took someone's advice and edited the thread title. Hopefully that will get the
    attention of the folks at Disney who I know read this forum.

    So, I am going to start by saying something very nice to our friends at Disney, and then
    I am going to vent.

    First, when it comes to 3D, nobody does it better than Disney. I look forward to the 3D
    titles that I review for the studio. Almost always, the 3D presentation is amazing. Plus,(and I think I am correct on this) no other studio has released as much 3D titles to the
    marketplace. In essence, Disney's push to get continuous 3D product out to store displays
    has greatly helped advance this format.

    With all that being said, I find that Disney is seemingly shooting themselves in the foot and
    doing crazy things as if they are trying to continually reinvent an established market.

    Let's start with BRAVE in 3D. Fantastic title. However, why upon inserting the disc it
    defaults to 2.0 audio is beyond me. Who does that in this day and age?Then there's OZ THE POWERFUL and the fact that they had to offer the 3D Blu-ray disc
    separately from the combo pack. I don't think that exactly worked out favorably for them
    as that practice has never been repeated.

    Now, there's FROZEN. Highly successful film for the studio, and quite frankly, it is my
    most anticipated 3D watch so far this year. I really wanted to own this title. It seems
    quite a bit of the online community did as well (I have been reading this and other forums).
    Why is Disney withholding a proper 3D Blu-ray release?I am not saying this sarcastically....perhaps I haven't been up on the latest numbers related
    to 3D sales. Are they down to the point that a studio like Disney has to change a successful
    release model that it has had in place? Earlier, someone mentioned that the studios are
    seemingly trying to kill off the 3D format. I laughed and thought that was impossible. However,
    seeing what is being done here, I don't quite know now what to think.

    Jeezus....Disney 3D Blu-ray, for me, is the crème de la crème of what is possible with this format.
    If they start screwing around with their releases, and other studios follow, I am not feeling very
    comfortable about the future of 3D in the home.
     
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  5. Sam Favate

    Sam Favate Producer

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    Indeed. Let me add to what Ron said: As someone who has not yet adopted 3D in the home, moves like these make me wary of doing so. I didn't go high def til the HD-DVD/Blu-Ray wars were over, and I'm not likely to get 3D at home until there is regular availability of titles.
     
  6. Todd Erwin

    Todd Erwin Cinematographer
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    Working in retail, selling TVs, one thing I hear quite often from customers is their perception that "3D is dead" and "there aren't a lot of titles in the format." I try to explain to them that it has all been blown out of proportion, plus there is some backlash on 3D due to its mis-use by some studios and film makers, plus the ridiculous surcharge we are forced to pay at the box office.

    It was somewhat understandable when Disney delayed some titles in 3D during the early adoption days (Chicken Little, Toy Story, Toy Story 2).

    But to see studios not releasing a 3D version of either a popular title (in this case, Disney with Frozen) or a film that has won awards for its creative use of 3D (Big Air with Joe Dante's The Hole) is inexcusable, especially when these movies are being released in 3D in other territories. And this just continues to feed the mis-perception that "3D is dead."

    If a small studio like Millenium can release a little-seen film like Run in 3D, I can't see why Disney can't do so with Frozen.
     
  7. FoxyMulder

    FoxyMulder 映画ファン

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    Dreamworks always do it better than Disney, also this title is listed at Amazon UK as region free and will be available in 3D.

    3D titles are overpriced and too many play it "safe" and don't utilize all that the technology can do, far too many conversions too, i think playing it safe and having so many titles just use depth is what is killing off 3D, the average viewer expects some pop out and wants it because it's entertaining, if they really want a resurgence in popularity with 3D they could do worse than use the technology to it's fullest, just my opinion of course but i am really put off with the amount of conversions and the play it safe approach to 3D, if this continues then even more people will stop buying 3D.

    When Avatar 2 comes out there will be another mini resurgence of 3D, hopefully it will lead to more native shot live action titles.
     
  8. Ronald Epstein

    Ronald Epstein Administrator
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    Uhmmm...hmmm...I am not going to say that's not true. They just haven't put out
    [color=rgb(40,40,40);font-family:'Merriweather Sans', sans-serif;background-color:rgb(242,242,242);]a substantial amount of titles, and Monsters vs. Aliens still stands as one of the worst[/color]
    cross-talk riddled releases ever.

    ...but again, I am not going to deny that DreamWorks has put out some very good
    3D releases. I just think, walking into a store, you would be more overwhelmed with
    the amount of Disney product vs. DreamWorks.
     
  9. FoxyMulder

    FoxyMulder 映画ファン

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    Try re-watching Monsters Vs Aliens on your new Samsung, you will be pleasantly surprised, it's the display that is the cause of the crosstalk and not the disc, on your Samsung F8500 the title will play almost perfectly and look superb, i know this because it looked superb on my E6500 and your display is capable of even better performance due to the high brightness.
     
  10. Adam Gregorich

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    I'll see if I can find out whats up with the 3D version of Frozen. Just having the cartoon short Get A Horse (shown before the film) in 3D makes this a must own on 3D Blu-ray.
     
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  11. Ronald Epstein

    Ronald Epstein Administrator
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    Malcolm,
    I had to laugh when I read what you just posted.
    Just for the hell of it, I put in Monsters vs. Aliens.
    Holy !@#$%!
    There is absolutely no cross-talk to be seen.
    Then I put in the other troublemakers, Dial M. For Murder and Hugo.
    Couldn't see the crosstalk. Just a hint of ghosting at the end of Hugo.
    Much worse on the Panasonic and LG plasmas.
    There is something about this Samsung F8500...
    It really does a better job with 3D than any display I have ever owned.
    I recently read (might have been posted on HTF) that Panasonic and
    Samsung have different ways of encoding their 3D. It's apparent to
    me that Samsung is a miracle-worker when it comes to titles that seem
    to have cross-talk related issues on most displays.
    Sorry to disrupt the thread with this -- will get back on track with Frozen --
    but I needed to comment that Malcolm apparently knows what he's talkin' 'bout.
     
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  12. FoxyMulder

    FoxyMulder 映画ファン

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    Panasonic uses the Multi-line Simultaneous Scanning Method, which means that the highest contrast changes in the picture are drawn at full resolution, but intermediate brightness steps are drawn at the equivalent of 540p. ( I have to give credit to HDTV Test as they have this info and not me, i just copied it over ) Samsung are 1080p all the way.

    You should put Monsters Vs Aliens higher up your 3D list now, re-watch the whole film, it's fun and looks great, you might see a couple of instances of crosstalk, i know i did, i do mean just a short couple of instances where it shows, for me House Of Wax was a much more difficult title and my Samsung did show a little more crosstalk than any other title but it was on background scenes, nothing to take me out of the film though and i do think your extra brightness will probably aid in producing a better performance with House Of Wax.
     
  13. Ronald Epstein

    Ronald Epstein Administrator
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    I am not against moving it up the list, Malcolm.

    I tell you this honestly, I will consider it.

    The problem I have is that there are a small handful of titles, which I mentioned
    in post #51, that have had an abnormal amount of online members here and
    elsewhere complaining of crosstalk.

    I am not an expert in how 3D is encoded, and I believe the real expert, Bob
    Furmanek, has posted the answer to what I am about to ask...

    Why is it that these particular titles are problematic for many active 3D
    display owners?

    If I had made a mistake in my evaluation of a 3D title because of the display
    I owned, I would make amends. However, again, this was one of those titles
    that got a lot of negative feedback. As such. I am bit leery about changing my
    mind entirely about those titles.
     
  14. FoxyMulder

    FoxyMulder 映画ファン

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    The early first generation 3D displays were bad with some discs, this led to reviewers blaming the discs when it was actually the display, remember that DLP owners will get no crosstalk whatsoever, newer displays suffer less too, i think i read it's due to the pixel response time of the display technology, DLP has an exceptionally fast response time meaning there is no lag between the left and right image and thus no crosstalk, other display technologies are slower.

    I think you should perhaps consider your list is going to be around for a long time, probably forever in internet land, put a little disclaimer at the top saying different display technologies may not produce the same results that you see and then make the list, tell people the crosstalk is on the display and not the disc, it might encourage some owners to upgrade their sets and projectors, always a good thing.
     
  15. Ronald Epstein

    Ronald Epstein Administrator
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    I'll agree to that.

    Give me some time to update the list.
     
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  16. Kevin EK

    Kevin EK Producer
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    For the record, I've been very, very pleased with the Panasonic VT30's performance with 3D titles. I don't have Monsters vs. Aliens but I do have a healthy collection of 3D work. House of Wax is probably the only vintage title I haven't picked up yet, of the ones that interested me.

    Regarding Frozen, I may well do what I did with Oz - just order the Amazon UK edition. I'm frankly tired of this game of farming out multiple exclusives to different retailers, or trying to gouge the consumer with a wildly inflated price, as happened with Oz last year. I don't mind the idea of a store like Walmart or Best Buy getting one bonus featurette on a separate disc that can be thrown into the packaging. That sort of thing has been done many times and doesn't affect the overall value of the DVD - it's just a little bonus you can get if you buy from the right store.

    I do mind when Paramount splits up pretty much all of the bonus content on a major release between multiple retailers. Want the IMAX version or the commentary? You have to buy the iTunes editon. Want the other other half of the featurettes? You have to buy from Walmart or Best Buy. It's one thing to have one featurette as a little bonus on a bonus disc. It's quite another to expect a consumer to repeatedly buy the same movie in order to get a significant amount of bonus content that could have been available on a single release. Add to that issue that Paramount is still charging that inflated price for the 3D edition, which should have contained EVERYTHING for that price point, and you have a justified case of consumer annoyance. I add that I fully expect Paramount to issue a "Deluxe Edition" at some point, whenever they want to promote their next Trek movie, which will at that point offer the materials the way they should have been presented the first time.

    I do mind when Disney charges a premium price for a 3D disc of Oz, but without including the other discs in the packaging. Which means they're wildly inflating the price, since the value has dropped significantly. The premium 3D price has always included having the 2D Blu-ray, the DVD edition and whatever extras are available to go with the title. What happened with Oz was nothing less than a slap in the face of 3D fans - which is why I purchased it from the UK branch, for pretty much the same price as what people were paying for the plain 3D disc release in the States.

    I minded a little when the remaining James Bond singles were piecemealed between three different retailers, but at least in that case, we weren't looking at different bonus features being offered in different stores. And we knew that it was a limited time deal, where if you waited a little longer, you could get all the titles from wherever you wanted.

    And I really do mind when Disney makes the 3D release here one that is limited to a single retailer. That's frankly nonsensical, and it feels very much like they're trying to find a way to justify a higher premium price.

    There's a very simple way to make a good profit from releasing quality 3D Blu-rays (and 2D Blu-rays): Make them easily available to everyone, and don't play games about it.
     
  17. Kevin EK

    Kevin EK Producer
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    Also, I enjoy Ron's list, even if I disagree with him on this or that title. It's a nice resource and a handy reference.
     
  18. Mark Cappelletty

    Mark Cappelletty Cinematographer

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    If we could get anything resembling an official response from Disney on what's going on, I'm sure we'd be a lot happier with this situation. I didn't see FROZEN in 3D (and we didn't get the short either-- grr) when I saw it with my brother and my nieces over the holidays, but would be happy to plunk down my cash for the 3D version of this, as our Panasonic VT30 has pretty great 3D. I'm with Kevin on this issue-- Disney is playing a shell game with their customers. If I at least knew I'd have to wait until the Fall for a 3D promotion, I'd at least be able to purchase the title accordingly. Right now, however, I'm not sure if and/or when the 3D version is coming out. Disney could not have screwed this up any more, starting with the early Wal-Mart leak with the packaging artwork. We have two months until this all comes to a head, but I may just order from the UK if this doesn't get resolved.
     
  19. Jason_V

    Jason_V Producer

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    Thank you, Adam.
     
  20. HTTVChannel

    HTTVChannel Auditioning

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    Just came across a listing for "Frozen" 3D on Bluray.com. It's listed for an April 16, 2014 release. No cover art, but it's pretty interesting. It says there's both a Blu-ray 3D disc and a Blu-ray 2D disc included. It also said it was listed only two days ago on the 19th. Could this be it?
     

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