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3D Flesh for Frankenstein (1 Viewer)

RolandL

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Bob Furmanek said:
As I recall, every close-up is shot this way and the movie has a lot of close-ups.

We would certainly welcome the challenge but I'm not optimistic!
I have the field-sequential version and hooked it up to an old CRT and I couldn't see any ghosting. But, then I moved closer to the TV and did notice some close-up scenes where I could see the crosstalk.
 

Mike Ballew

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Comparison.jpg


Here is the diagram I referred to in an earlier post. I think there is some resemblance between the Soviet schematic on the left and Bernier's schematic on the right. Although I have sincere and friendly questions concerning the provenance of the Trioptiscope lens, I want to take care that my postings do not come across as accusatory. It may be that this is a remarkable instance of persons of good faith arriving at similar technical solutions independently.
 

Mike Ballew

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The diagram of the Soviet system in my most recent posting above is newly acquired. Now that I’ve taken the time to really study it, I still think that its distinctive arrangement of specially shaped prisms resembles the arrangement at the heart of the Trioptiscope.

However, if the Soviet drawing is to scale, that scheme resulted in an interaxial of about 90 millimeters, just over 3 ½ inches. While I grant that NaturalVision achieved outstanding results with a 3 ½-inch interaxial, such a wide stereo base is usually a limitation to be avoided. Space-Vision claims a stereo base of 67 millimeters—much, much better—and I think that fact alone indicates that Bernier did his own heavy lifting in designing and producing the Trioptiscope.

Also, and I regret I cannot state this for certain, I have a hunch that the Soviets were putting their lenses out in front of the prisms. Bernier put his lenses behind the prisms, that is, between the prisms and the film plane. If I am correct, that is one more indication that Bernier was doing original work.
 

Stephen_J_H

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A close examination of the diagram also suggests that the Soviets were looking at a 6-perf pulldown like Cinerama, and more importantly, Kinopanorama. This would yield an aspect ratio of between 1.66 and 1.85:1, and given Soviet film stocks of the time, would have been necessary to reduce apparent grain. If you've ever seen stills of Russian Adventure, you know that it's ridiculously grainy.
 

Mike Ballew

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Good catch, Stephen. But I actually have another diagram that makes it clear they were actually employing an 8-perf pulldown at this point (circa 1952). Part of me wishes Hollywood had considered using a release format like this in the early 1950s, with 3-D restricted to a few specialized houses fitted with appropriate equipment. Alas.Within a few years, the Soviets would begin employing 65/70 mm equipment on their stereoscopic films--side-by-side left and right images, each with an aspect ratio of 1.37:1.

I have read that some of the "lens blocks" designed for Stereo 70 have been repurposed for digital stereo cinematography, but that is subject to verification.
 

Mike Ballew

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"...given Soviet film stocks of the time, would have been necessary to reduce apparent grain. If you've ever seen stills of Russian Adventure, you know that it's ridiculously grainy."

I can't resist asking if this is what ultimately led to the 1980 grain embargo.
 

FoxyMulder

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David M. Ballew said:
"...given Soviet film stocks of the time, would have been necessary to reduce apparent grain. If you've ever seen stills of Russian Adventure, you know that it's ridiculously grainy."

I can't resist asking if this is what ultimately led to the 1980 grain embargo.
:D
 

Mike Ballew

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Matthew, I regret you took down your posting so soon. Your experimental "reconstruction" of "Flesh for Frankenstein" strikes me as inventive and resourceful, and trust me, it is representative of the great lengths 3-D fans will sometimes go to just to get a glimpse of movies they've heard about but never had a chance to see.I hope you enjoy the final results. But more than that, I hope someday-- someday-- someone makes this film available in a legitimate version on 3-D Blu-Ray, which will free you up for other remarkable endeavors. Keep up the good fight.
 

Mike Ballew

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Bob Furmanek said:
That's very interesting, David.

You might enjoy my new article which talks about Colonel Bernier and his work with developing various 3-D systems.

http://www.3dfilmarchive.com/home/The-Bubble
Yep, Bob, I've read your article at least three times now. Love it. I will reiterate something I've said elsewhere, and that is I hope that when time and circumstances permit you will write a book. I am grateful for all you have done and are doing to preserve and present our stereoscopic cinema heritage.My examination of Space-Vision against the Soviet system arose out of a deep curiosity that was ignited when I (literally) glimpsed the Soviet diagram during Stefan Droessler's lecture at the 3-D Expo last year. I've always wondered why there had been a 12-year gap between Naturama (strictly a projection technology, as far as I can tell) and the appearance of the Trioptiscope lens. Reasonable explanations suggest themselves-- lack of industry interest, Col. Bernier moving on to other enterprises, difficulty of designing and manufacturing such a precision optical device in an age of slide rules and drafting paper. But based on perceived similarities between the Soviet scheme and Bernier's design, I felt it was worth trying to rule out a direct connection. I was only able to acquire the Soviet diagram shown above within the last couple of weeks. I am now satisfied that the similarities, while still evident, are ultimately superficial. In my view, Bernier created something in the Trioptiscope that was original, of outstanding quality, and of seminal influence on stereo motion pictures for at least the following 30 years.
 

Matthew Byrd_274727

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David, I wasn't satisfied with my first attempt, and went back to the drawing board. Bob actually provided the most valuable piece of the puzzle, as his frame capture shows exactly what the proper aspect ratio of the film is, as well as demonstrating how much information was lost in the transfer.

The Criterion transfer ditched a notable portion of the frame, which I imagine was needed for image stabilization. The results were so good, it's hard to argue with it, though. Even the camera judder from the original filming was eliminated. Anyway, this is what my particular version looks like. I've captured the same frame that Bob posted earlier, so you can see for yourself how much information from the original has been lost. The lower image is the right-eye view, sourced from a very old VHS copy of the videodisc. I'd say it's probably around 136 lines of vertical resolution, at best. It works on the computer, but I don't think it would hold up very well on a 3D television.

fff_video_snap.jpg
 

Todd J Moore

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Anyone with a field sequential copy and Pinnacle Studio 17 can make their own side by side version the movie. Far from blu-ray quality but it does the trick.
 

tyee

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Recently got the Japan Blu-ray and it looks great. Here is a frame grab. Color looks pretty close to the film frame shown in an earlier post. I added some sharpening myself to the whole film if your thinking it's too sharp. The Blu-ray is closer to the film frame shown above.
 

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toronto_dude

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This was released as "Andy Warhol's Frankenstein" in Canada also. I first saw it at an action house on a double bill when I was 16 or 17 and it blew my mind. Saw it a few years later at a grindhouse and although the picture didn't fit the screen properly, the 3D effects still worked fine. Seen it 3 or 4 times since. The last two times (that I know of) when it played Toronto the film was "Flesh For Frankenstein". One rep. cinema claimed in their monthly program that the print came directly from Paul Morrissey's personal collection. I've always said it was the very best 3D film I'd ever seen, until some of the real IMAX stuff - but FFF was much more fun. I've been dying to see a release announcement on this in 3D, after reading this thread all the air came out of my tire. Morrisey could do quite well to allow this film to be restored as best possible (amazing things can be done these days in the digital realm, even with damaged and faded release prints), with theatrical 4K 3D prints made available and tied into a blu ray release.
 

tyee

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Just ran across this 3 year old interview with Paul here. Interesting attitude. He thinks he can stream FFF in 3D, really?
 

revgen

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First of all, I don't think he even understands what 3-D Blu-Ray is.


2nd of all, If he feels that other distributors burned him in the past, then I can understand his reluctance in "partnering" with anybody, and why he would even think about asking Bob and Greg to work on it for free.


The 3D Film Archive have released their properties through three different distributors, Flicker Alley, Olive Films, and Kino, and so far I've yet to hear any complaints. The film industry is a "who-you-know" industry and it doesn't look like Paul really knows anybody anymore. A change in attitude and outlook might help.
 

StephenDH

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He sounds slightly to the right of Genghis Khan and about one rant away from a tinfoil hat.

I love the way he justifies his dreadful movies by claiming everyone else's are even worse. It's not like he made "Citizen Kane".
 

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