Nintendo NX is now Switch (Official thread) (1 Viewer)

[laser]

The gimmick is going to be something along the lines of "home console power in a portable console."

That's not a gimmick, it's just a form factor. Vita's already getting close to that level of power, plus the Remote Play feature, so Nintendo needs to offer more to differentiate NX, especially since Vita is still relatively popular in Japan.

With Nintendo emphasizing a "brand-new concept" and supposed developers saying "it's a bit of a novelty", along with PlayStation Move, Kinect, and VR tech making Wii & Wii U seem like baby toys, I strongly suspect that something wild & flashy will rear its head.

With Sony having VR on the market for nearly 6 months before NX is even released, fake VR would be dead in the water. Plus, like I said, it only works with 1 person at a time.

Price + complexity. To casuals, VR looks like a NASA computer on your head. A pair of glasses with some lights on them + pair of Move-style wands + Nintendo's comforting branding = potential blue ocean. Again, with the mobile mindshare and investors breathing down their neck to deliver, they may want to leap back into that pit...

 

[Morgan Jolley]

The Vita was sold as a portable PS3, but was definitely NOT a portable PS3. That's actually why a lawsuit against Sony resulted in them having to pay a lot of money to people who bought the Vita based on the original ads. I agree that "console power in a portable" isn't a brand new concept, but being able to play this year's Call of Duty on a handheld in HD hasn't happened before.

I agree that true VR (PS VR, Oculus, Vive) is too burdensome and expensive for real mass-market adoption. But I think half-assed VR won't look or play well, especially if you are required to use your whole TV and get up and move around a lot to get anything from it. And one rumor said that Nintendo already spoiled the NX gimmick in their Zelda videos, which featured nothing like what you're describing.

Emily Rogers released a bunch of leaks and one of them said the NX portable didn't have a camera or microphone. If they exist, they would be in the base station or as an add-on like a sensor bar. Considering you need a $60 camera on PS4 or a $100 Kinect camera on Xbox One, I don't see Nintendo having a decently-powered handheld, a base station, and a good quality camera for a remotely reasonable price. And there's probably zero chance of it being an add-on that gets any decent support.

 

[laser]

The added cost to a bundle such tech presents is definitely an issue, though there's a rumour that Nvidia gave Nintendo a great deal on Tegra chips, which could free up some room.

The "gimmick" seen in the Zelda footage is probably plugging the tablet into a dock to download data. This probably suggests taking your progress on the go, but this just doesn't seem like enough to attract the wider masses. If the launch lineup is really solid, it could be, but I suspect that the real "wow factor" of NX has yet to be seen...unless it's in that patent.

 

[Morgan Jolley]

I think the gimmick, really, is just that Nintendo is now selling one device in place of two. Handheld device with console power. Anything else on top of that, like Nintendo account and online services, are features. I really don't think there's much of a brain inside the base station. If there is anything more to the base then it would probably be just to get games from 720p on the handheld to 1080p on the TV. The Zelda video showed Link putting a tablet device in a dock, which is probably simulating how the NX works but I doubt the handheld is a"to-go" version that must by synched with the home console or anything.

Like I said, any patents related specifically to the NX are probably still secret. (Companies can file them to be kept secret for a period of time.) There are probably a good half dozen patents from Nintendo filed between Wii U's release and now that we can be pretty sure have nothing to do with NX. Quality of life stuff, scrollable shoulder buttons, etc. Just because they patent it doesn't mean it's going to happen.

 

[LeoA]

I wouldn't be so sure about scrollable shoulder buttons not being present here. Sounded like a good idea to me.

I agree that I don't see the dock having much in the way of guts. My money is that it will have a scaling chip to get everything to at least 1080p (And HDMI output, naturally), it will power the system and charge the battery, it will have a few USB ports and the like, perhaps a Wii sensor bar power plug if rumors of Wiimote support are accurate, etc.

I won't dismiss the possibility of something like added memory for when playing NX games on a television, but I really doubt that it will actually enhance NX games any. It's an added complexity for developing for the NX that I don't see them needing to succeed (Although console developers are going to quickly become accustomed to this thanks to Sony and Microsoft's new two tiered approach).

 

[laser]

There's no way the handheld will be 1080p, and there no way the public or Nintendo will settle for upscaled 720p on the console. I expect a "supplemental computing device" in the dock to allow for native 1080p. I mean, people will be pissed if the only differences after BotW's delay for NX are controls and smoother framerate.

(Yeah, controls and widescreen were pretty much the only differences in TP between GC & Wii, but this is a longer delay for a bigger game that we've been waiting longer for with more hype surrounding it.)

And even though a hybrid is cool, I just don't see anybody outside the usual Nintendo fanbase clamoring for just that and nothing else unless the game lineup is superb...though now that I think about it, because the libraries are merged, the lineup COULD indeed be superb...

 

[Morgan Jolley]

Regarding scrolling shoulder buttons, I think a lot of fans and gamers want them but they functionally didn't turn out so good. A lot of leaks and rumors say they've decided to not use them.

People will be pissed about Zelda's delay, anyway, but they can also get it on Wii U if they don't want to deal with any potential sacrifices on NX. Regardless, the game will look and play better on NX. There's about zero chance the NX is inherently weaker than Wii U. The handheld may only be 720p due to the resolution of the screen but technically capable of outputting 1080p on a TV.

The games lineup will probably include a couple Wii U ports (rumors specifically mention Super Mario Maker, Splatoon, and Smash Bros....at launch) and I wouldn't be too surprised if 3DS game support or 3DS ports were made available, too. I see Pokemon ending up on NX within a year or so. Also, Nintendo has been looking to where non-gamers and children are playing games, which is predominantly on mobile devices like phones and tablets. That's the market they're aiming for because that's how people play now. Whether this strategy could work is to be seen.

 

[LeoA]

Even stock Xbox One and Playstation 4 hardware often has had to resort to upscaling to reach 1080p. I don't think that 1080p native gaming is a prerequisite for the NX, especially as 1080p is losing its marketing buzz these days in light of 4k.

How it looks on your tv screen is what really matters, and I think the Wii U and games like Mario Kart 8 already show you that much more matters than just a resolution number when it comes to delivering attractive Nintendo games to your HDTV.

That rumors point to this technically being somewhere between the Wii U and Playstation 4 is all that matters to me (i.e., we're not going to be seeing a step back here in comparison to the Wii U due to its portable nature, just an upgrade of capabilities of some sort).

The people that put such stock into a number will already be dismissing it anyways, since it's not offering 4k...

Regarding scrolling shoulder buttons, I think a lot of fans and gamers want them but they functionally didn't turn out so good. A lot of leaks and rumors say they've decided to not use them.

I haven't seen anything like that.

You've got me curious now. Happen to have any links for some of what you've read?

The games lineup will probably include a couple Wii U ports (rumors specifically mention Super Mario Maker, Splatoon, and Smash Bros....at launch) and I wouldn't be too surprised if 3DS game support or 3DS ports were made available, too.

While I'd have bet on it, rumors or no rumors, just a short time ago, I now rather doubt that we'll see a Super Mario Maker port in light of the recently announced 3DS conversion.

I have a feeling that we'll have to wait for a full blown sequel now, hopefully with a full fledged traditional Nintendo crafted adventure to complement it this time (That hopefully isn't held to the same restrictions as the consumer accessible level editor, since it seems clear that Nintendo tries to simplify things there such as their lack of support for sloped surfaces in Super Mario Maker 1).

Also, Nintendo has been looking to where non-gamers and children are playing games, which is predominantly on mobile devices like phones and tablets. That's the market they're aiming for because that's how people play now. Whether this strategy could work is to be seen.

I think (And believe that rumors have already hinted at) that this will support Nintendo mobile software offerings.

But if you're saying that the NX itself is out to go after the smartphone and tablet business, i disagree. I think Nintendo has conceded that space where their dedicated hardware is concerned, as seen by Pokemon Go, and is instead going for the higher-end market for people that want a device that isn't tethered to their television but can still deliver console style experiences.

You've seen that in action already on the 3DS. By and large, the casual 5 minute pick up and play games that were a large part of the DS experience in pre-smartphone days never had much of a presence here. Instead, it was stuff like remakes of console Zelda's from the Nintendo 64 days, Super Mario 3D Land, lengthy rpg's, etc.

I think Nintendo realizes that smartphones have too great of an advantage for casual gaming to ever gain a significant portion of it back with dedicated gaming hardware.

 

[Morgan Jolley]

The scrolling shoulder buttons came from a patent but none of the NX leaks and rumors have said its actually going to be used. Also, if the NX is a handheld with removable controllers, shoulder buttons would be awkward, especially if they're scrolling mouse-wheel ones. I'm a bit skeptical that they would even work well in practice because I could see accidentally scrolling when you mean to click. Remember when the GameCube had double-clicking shoulder buttons and that was awkward enough? I forget the place where I saw the specific rumor that the scrollers were removed, but none of the recent rumors about the controllers have included them while still mentioning everything else. Here's a good rundown: https://arcadegirl64.wordpress.com/2016/09/02/rumor-what-should-we-expect-from-the-final-nx-product/

If there's no Super Mario Maker on NX, it will probably be for technical reasons. One of the rumors surrounding the NX port was that there were issues connecting the online infrastructure so that Wii U levels could be played on NX. But I could definitely see them getting over all that since the game is coming to 3DS. Maybe it will even be one of the first games where you can buy a digital copy, link it to your Nintendo account, and keep the DRM between more than one device. And yeah, I've seen a lot of things saying that all Nintendo mobile games will be on NX, as well.

I wouldn't say Nintendo is going after the mobile/tablet business, but rather trying to make something to appeal to those gamers. The Wii U was an attempt at that. I don't remember if it was Miyamoto or someone else, but they specifically said the inspiration for Wii U was that a lot of people play tablet games so they wanted to make a console around that idea. So the NX being a portable aimed at mobile gamers is like making a TV show and airing it on Netflix instead of broadcast TV because that's where people are consuming content now and its what they're used to. So if they make hardware that gives you a 50 hour Zelda game as well as Pokemon Go or Super Mario Run, there's an appeal to that. Supposedly, the NX also looks like a really good portable device (once described as Samsung-meets-Nintendo) so it could visually be appealing to non-hardcore gamers.

 

[LeoA]

I know where the scrollable shoulder buttons thing came from. I still think they'll be present here, even if they're not being mentioned much one way or another in the constantly evolving rumor mill. It's a good idea that should be implemented, in my opinion. I always had trouble envisioning something like touch control really innovating how we play games, but I have no trouble picturing good uses for these.

Not that I'm suggesting that the feature could revolutionize how we play games or anything that dramatic, but it could be the first real advancement we've seen in the area of shoulder buttons since analog triggers were first implemented by Sega/Microsoft/Nintendo during the PS2 generation (If they can make it comfortable and you're not accidentally scrolling a button during heated moments as you depress it, accidentally changing something important).

I can't imagine technical reasons holding back Super Mario Maker. I just think that Nintendo realizes that they have a good thing here with this concept. If they have a strong launch lineup already, it's to their advantage not to milk this new IP with a mere conversion of last year's model and instead just provide the NX with a full fledged follow-up instead of the rumored Wii U port that Emily Rogers had many people expecting to see.

I strongly feel that's why the 3DS is getting the port, instead, this Christmas. Expose more people to the concept, strengthen their weak last-gen Christmas lineup, and get them excited for what's to follow on the NX with Super Mario Maker 2.

 

[laser]

Even stock Xbox One and Playstation 4 hardware often has had to resort to upscaling to reach 1080p. I don't think that 1080p native gaming is a prerequisite for the NX, especially as 1080p is losing its marketing buzz these days in light of 4k.

That's the thing. Having a brand-new home console that cannot display native 1080p AAA games in this age of 3D, 4K, and VR is a serious marketing problem. If they're planning to skimp on power due to cost/heat/form factor, they'll need to have either an extra gimmick for the casual crowd or a fantastic software lineup to compensate.

Also, if it includes scrollable shoulder buttons, I expect them to be on the tablet border and not the detachable controllers.

 

[LeoA]

That wouldn't make any sense then, since they'd only be usable when utilizing the NX as a handheld.

 

[Morgan Jolley]

Other than you thinking its a good idea, why do you think the scrollable shoulder buttons will happen? I've seen more rumors saying they're definitely not happening.

Wii U and NX will have completely different chips (PowerPC versus whatever NX has) so porting over isn't so simple. That's the rumor for the difficulty with Super Mario Maker's online functionality, and I wouldn't be surprised if it hampers other ports, too. It could be part of the reason why the console is coming in March instead of any sooner.

There are a handful of PS4 and Xbox One games that don't display at native 1080p, let alone at 60 fps. Nintendo doesn't always release cutting-edge stuff and their market cares more about fun games than the best graphics. I doubt NX, a handheld, will be powerful and affordable enough to do 1080p natively. Especially if the handheld screen is only 720p.

 

[LeoA]

Other than you thinking its a good idea, why do you think the scrollable shoulder buttons will happen? I've seen more rumors saying they're definitely not happening.

I think they'll be here because I think they're a good idea.

I haven't seen all these rumors that you have that definitively state that this isn't a feature of the NX and frankly, I don't put much stock into the rumor mill anyways. So until I see some solid evidence of some sort, I'll just trust my own judgement.

I've done pretty well, I think. As the months have gone by, the rumors get closer and closer to things I was talking about on this forum years ago. So my gut is doing pretty well so far it seems, so I'll stick with it until the NX unveil gives us something factual to go by.

That's the rumor for the difficulty with Super Mario Maker's online functionality, and I wouldn't be surprised if it hampers other ports, too. It could be part of the reason why the console is coming in March instead of any sooner.

The 3DS version supports level downloads. I don't know why level uploading from the 3DS isn't supported, but I doubt it's a major stumbling block for a potential NX version.

Heck, even if there were issues, why does a NX version need to even work with levels made for a failed system in the first place? The world hardly expects cross-platform support just yet and we're talking a failure that sold a mere 10 million units.

I don't see why it would be such a prerequisite as to derail a port due to some alleged difficulties, although it would be nice to see existing level uploads be supported if it did happen.

Wii U and NX will have completely different chips (PowerPC versus whatever NX has) so porting over isn't so simple.

We're talking about a grid based level editor setup here and some 1's and 0's that identify what the user selected for each grid block.

I find it incredibly difficult to believe that if Nintendo wanted a NX game to be able to read this data and upload equivalent data to a central server, that it would pose any sort of difficulty for Nintendo regardless of what the NX hardware architecture is.

I just feel that they know they have a hot idea on their hands and that they don't want to screw up the opportunity to further it on the NX by releasing a port of a game that will be ~18 months old when the NX launches.

That's why I think the 3DS is getting the port instead. Granted, the NX could still launch with its own port of this Wii U hit, but then why is it coming to the 3DS just weeks before, then?

My bet for a NX counterpart is on Super Mario Maker 2 in Fall 2017, at the earliest.

 

[Morgan Jolley]

I don't know, it would be weird to push this cross-platform strategy and then just replace the game with a sequel less than a year after the 3DS port was released. Why not just continually support the game with DLC and launch it on NX with the "2.0" version DLC already included? Even though the Wii U was a bust, there are a lot of people that Nintendo would want to carry over to NX, and alienating their early adopters by forcing them to ditch their Wii U Super Mario Maker levels wouldn't be the best idea.

At best, I see them doing what Little Big Planet did. The sequel will support all of the previous game's content.

 

[LeoA]

Except they don't have a cross-platform strategy.

They're just milking a few semi-recent Wii U releases that reached a small audience there due to the console's poor commercial performance, to provide something new that was comparatively cheap and quick to port over to sell to the millions of existing 3DS owners that don't own a Wii U and want something to play this Fall in the months leading up to the NX launch.

The NX is a combined console/handheld, if all this speculation proves to be correct in the end. I think it's a stretch to extrapolate from that merger and the occasional Wii U to 3DS port that they also want NX cross-gen, cross-platform support of any significant sort such as with Super Mario Maker.

I wouldn't go into the NX expecting much in the way of last-gen compatibility with it, such as the ability to migrate your Splatoon progress from the Wii U over to the rumored NX conversion. I think you're bound to end up disappointed.

I just don't think that this somewhat crippled port of a game that only reached a small audience thanks to the Wii U's commercial failure, makes much sense to bring to the 3DS just before its 6th anniversary if they're also planning a NX launch release of the same game weeks later.

Most early NX customers will already have been reached either via the Wii U or the 3DS if they really wanted this game. Could be wrong, but my money after this 3DS port was announced is instead on Super Mario Maker 2 in the future for the NX, likely not at launch due to the short time between the 3DS release and March 2017.

Even though the Wii U was a bust, there are a lot of people that Nintendo would want to carry over to NX, and alienating their early adopters by forcing them to ditch their Wii U Super Mario Maker levels wouldn't be the best idea.

Despite what I've been saying and regardless if Super Mario Maker is a NX launch title or not, Super Mario Maker 2 doesn't need to ignore these existing level uploads just because it's a sequel.

It's easy to visualize backwards compatibility with existing level uploads in a sequel. They could even include a BC option in the editor to enable creation of Wii U/3DS compatible levels from the NX sequel, disabling additions to the formula such as possibly slopes and vertically oriented levels.

I'd prefer to see Nintendo just keep this game, port it over to the NX, and provide substantial additions to the formula for all 3DS/WiiU/NX customers. But I just don't see that as being the sort of move that Nintendo would make, due to the temptation of selling a sequel rather than supporting existing customers.

 

[laser]

That wouldn't make any sense then, since they'd only be usable when utilizing the NX as a handheld.

Such buttons on a small, remote-style controller just sounds awkward.

(additional comments redacted because I was confused - better comment below)

 

[LeoA]

Even a Wii remote has a trigger on it.

The touchscreen being docked is a necessary evil with what we're visualizing. Locating buttons though away from the sides not only sounds like it could possibly be quite a reach for our fingers, but obviously makes them completely inaccessible when in console mode when the central unit where you think they should be located is in the dock.

So you'd be down a touch screen and a few buttons when playing on your television. I don't think that makes any sense. If this has triggers, surely they'll be incorporated into the detachable sides so that they're always available regardless of mode.

 

[Bryan^H]

Have there been rumors of Super Mario Maker 2? I haven't heard anything but found it strange that one of The WiiU's best selling titles, and they seemed to have stopped cold turkey with DLC.

 

[laser]

Even a Wii remote has a trigger on it.

A standard trigger. A scrollable trigger would feel very weird.

A scrollable shoulder button would probably be shaped like a mouse scroll wheel, and would have to be placed at the top edge of the controller. If they were on detachable controllers, they'd have to omit the pointer IR sensor, and I imagine the feel of gripping something remote shaped with a scroll wheel at the top would be somewhat off. The detachable controller could be quite thin (I do not expect the NX handheld to be as wide as the Wii U GamePad), allowing the tablet-mounted scrollable shoulder buttons to be easily reached.

Since I doubt scrollable shoulder buttons could be comfortably implemented on remote shaped detachable controllers, they either could only be detachable for simplified two-player in handheld mode with a standard "pro" controller bundled for console play, or they wouldn't be remote shaped, but "L" shaped to be combined into one controller (which might rule out PS Move style 3D motion controls as well as on-the-go multiplayer due to the odd shape - at this point, detachable controllers don't make much sense anymore).

The shape of NX will likely be the key to its concept...