Feedback about Premiere Issue of DVD ETC. Magazine (1 Viewer)

[Kelly W]

There was another thread specifically started for feedback about the premiere issue of DVD Etc.
http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htfo...threadid=72275
I won't re-post my entire message, but I'll sum it up in saying that I like the magazine, but based on the equipment reviewed, I don't think I'm rich enough to read it.
(I was VERY surprised to read that the goal is to "reach and inform the non-enthusiast consumer"!)
-Kelly

 

[Michael St. Clair]

It is ironic that a magazine with ties to the HTF is perpetuating myths, as we work so hard around here to dispel them.

(I was VERY surprised to read that the goal is to "reach and inform the non-enthusiast consumer"!)

It sounds like they may have an identity crisis. If they review high-end hardware, they had better have the accuracy and critical mind of a 'Widescreen Review' or 'The Perfect Vision'. If they want to do fluffy, non-critical reviews of software, they may want to look to 'Sound and Vision'. Thus far they sound more like a less-accurate version of 'Audio Video Interiors', a magazine that, in my opinion, is not worth emulating.

I'd say be yourself, but have a consistent identity and make sure there is a market for it.

 

[MaxY]

Kelly and David,
Sorry I did not do a search and likely should have before posting.

The one thing that kind of has me puzzled is that Terry said he is not after the Enthusiasts, but I still think that if they subscribe then that means they are enthusiasts. It is a catch 22.


As to the comments about them reviewing gear that is two expensive, I really did not feel that way at all. In fact I think the first review I read in the mag was the on a $159 Zenith player. Sure they looked at some higher end stuff like the Rotel and Kenwood DVD player or the Plasma screen, but other then that most of it was really quite middle of the road stuff.

I mean maybe most people are not rushing out to buy $1500 DVD players but hey they did have two HT in a Box systems being reviewed too.

I don't think their problem is with the selection of the gear they reviewed.

Max


BTW I think they should sticky post these threads to the top of the software section, maybe merge the two posts together if possible, so people will be able to add their comments as they read the mag.

 

[Kelly W]

Quote:

This is absolutely true. I will subscribe anyway (it's a good deal), and, as such, I consider myself an "enthusiast". But I guess I'm more of a software enthusiast than a hardware enthusiast. I just want to see the magazine focus less on equipment reviews-- I don't think we need to read five DVD player reviews each issue.
But, again, that's just my opinion.
-Kelly

 

[MaxY]

Cool I see they Merged the threads.
Dave had the better topic anyway.
Kelly,
Lets just agree that at this point it might be a little too early to really say what level of gear they are going to cover. Give it a few issues. It seemed mixed bag to me.
But lets hope that they start to do a better job of covering whatever it is they decide to cover.
Max

 

[Steve Kramzer]

I too must say that I'm disappointed. I guess I was expecting something like an american version of either of the UK magazines Total DVD or DVD Review both of which contain a plethora of dvd reviews and interesting articles, and barely any focus on hardware.

 

[David Lambert]

...both of which contain a plethora of dvd reviews and interesting articles, and barely any focus on hardware

I must confess that I, too, was a bit surprised when I saw so much hardware in the magazine. With the title "DVD Etc.", I guessed that the focus would be on the software side of things, since to me when you discuss DVD hardware people tend to use the term "home theater", so as to include the TV's and Receivers and not limit yourself to one format (the mag's title would end up being funny if they covered D-VHS titles and equipment, for instance).
There are, according to The Bits' ever-present stat section, 16,671 DVD titles currently available or announced for R1. It seems that there's PLENTY for a software-heavy DVD magazine to concentrate on, without getting nearly as spastic as Total Movie tends to be (and while being more reliable than them in the process). So, in my mind, the room was there for a mag like I envisioned this one would be.
Of course, it makes sense that there would be SOME hardware in the material...we want to know the best way to view our discs, of course!
But in the end, the premiere issue only had ~16-ish pages of software-related content out of 130 pages of the periodical!

 

[terry malibu]

What we have asked of our writers:
Write about technology in a friendly way.
Review DVD's not for content but for entertainment value and special features.


Oh Boy, it's always a problem when you have a Publisher, not the editor, writing to the general public.
First, let me re-state the 'non-enthusiast' comment.
What I was trying to say was that we are trying to produce a magazine that walks a fine line in that it will appeal to the enthusiast at some level but will not alienate the non or should I say 'new' enthusiast, which is what almost every other magazine in the category does. It is projected that 20,000,000 players will be sold this year, what % of these buyers will be enthusiasts? Maybe 2 - 3 %, thats it. And if you think enthusiasts are the ones spending $$$ on things like high end DVD, HT and products like Plasma TV, you are simply uninformed. There is a consumer base out there that is wide and varied, quite affluent and in need of good information on this subject. They currently turn to Consumer Reports, a very good publication but not as informative as it regards technology and when possible, to a very small base of informed consumers, the enthusiasts. While you think Widescreen Review has the kind of meat the reader wants I assure you that if your next door neighbor picked up a copy to get info on a dvd player or other gear, he would be lost in a paragraph or two. That is not a knock on Gary's book, which is an excellent 'niche' magazine, it's just reality. We are trying to bring new people into the fold. Our writers have been asked to take the technology and distill it down so that the soon to be 'enthusiast' can enjoy it and make a good buying decision. I have published a few magazines in my time and while I would never think of guaranteeing the success of any magazine,however, I have never seen as positive a response from the reading public as I have seen with DVD ETC.
I guarantee you that we will not be overhauling this magazine but it will evolve. And as for the DVD magazines in the UK....you have to understand the magazine business in that part of the world to understand their success....needless to say, software magazines do not and will not succeed in the USA, for a # of reasons which if you want me to get into it, you will need to ask.
I appreciate all your comments, and assure you that they all go into trying to make this magazine as good as it can be, while being true to our mission.

All the Best,
Terry Carroll

 

[MaxY]

Terry,
I think one of us is not in his right mind. I look at your magazine and see an almost complete zero in the way of content. You obviously think you have hit on just the right formula for success.

One of us must be wrong or if both of us are right then it shows how shallow the public has become.

The fact is what your magazine called DVD reviews in the first issue are not reviews and are not even as informative as the back cover as a DVD. From what I gather you seem to feel there is not need to watch the DVD before writing a review when you can just copy the list of features from the back cover and say how wonderful it is.


In all honesty if your non-enthusiast target is true, then I have to wonder why you came to HTF which is an Enthusiast site. I also have to wonder further why if this is true you would tie your self to HTF and I even more odd is why HTF would tie themselves to your magazine which you seem to be quite proud that has such a lack of actual content.

Max

 

[terry malibu]

Hi Max,
Max, you seem to be under the impression that everyone on the planet has the same level of expertise you believe you have in this area. I am sorry you feel our magazine has 'zero' content, and you do have a choice, do not buy it or read it. My guess is that the 2200 people, not including the 120 or so from HTF, that have subscribed at this point, 2 weeks since we went on sale, disagree.
My guess is that you are not as well versed in some areas as you are about the world of HT and DVD. I happen to be a gun enthusiast as well as motorcycle enthusiast. I read just about everything there is on these subjects. Some mags are more enthusiast oriented and some are less, yet I understand their reason for being, and I choose accordingly.
My reason for wanting the HTF involved is complex, but clearly I would hope that you (HTF members) would be 'mentors' to those just coming in to the market. In fact, I believe the HTF has an area for those just starting out in HT, does it not?
We will be adding to our DVD reviews,scores for both transfer quality and sound in our next issue. We will not be doing 1000 word reviews, however....we will try to keep them short and entertaining....those of you who want more have choices, enjoy them, but don't criticize those that may not be as into it as you are....it comes off as very condescending.


Terry Carroll

 

[MaxY]

Max, you seem to be under the impression that everyone on the planet has the same level of expertise you believe you have in this area. I am sorry you feel our magazine has 'zero' content

My problem is not expertise.

Pick up a copy of your magazine, look at at the DVD reviews and read them. I am sure you have before, but do it again.

Keep asking yourself as you read them, what do they say? What information have we passed on to the reader.

Have we told them the disc is nice? have we told them it is not?, have we discussed the movie?

Really I am not just trying to be a pain. I am saying that a magazine that calls themselves DVD Etc. should at the very least be filled with DVD reviews and by reviews I don't mean they have to be technical and aimed at techies about the DVD that is merely one type of review. I am saying that they should convey more information that the back of a DVD case. They need a personal touch that is just not possible in a blurb review of 3 very short paragraphs or so.

If you don't want to technically review the disc, that is fine as many don't want that, but it should be clear from the review that you actually did watch the disc.

I am saying discuss the movie, discuss the quality of the DVD in non technical terms but do something other then just saying such and such movie came out, it has 3 different soundtracks and is widescreen.

You don't have to be technical to at least discuss the movie.

I would seriously suggest you search through the boards and read as many reviews of Ron's as you can. Sure his reviews might be a little longer then what you want for every movie, but they really are not overly technical and when you finish them, there is no question of if he watched the movie or not. He might not be the worlds best movie reviewer but the effort is always clearly there.

BTW I don't think it is too technical to mention frequency response when doing speaker reviews.

I also like the idea of HTF mentoring people that are new to HT.

Max

 

[terry malibu]

Hi Max,
I just read a review of a DVD in our first issue and do you know what I got out of it? Sounds like it's one I want to own so I am going to buy it....that's it, plain and simple.
Your comments are noted as it regards DVD reviews and as I said, the magazine will continue to evolve.
Max, why don't you do a review for us for our third issue (Oct/Nov). If you are interested, drop me a line at [email protected]
Thanks,
Terry

 

[Bruce Hedtke]

Overall, I found the magazine pretty standard as far as hardeware reviews go. The software, however, (as Max has already pointed out) is pretty lean. I am not ready to cast it off just yet, because I accept it being the premiere issue. I took out a subscription because it was a great deal and I like reading about Home Theater, but if this turns out to be a magazine focused on hardware rather than software (or the films contained in the software), then it won't be of much interest to me. There are plenty of other publications that handle the dual role of hardware/software better and I was just hoping that one mag would start focusing more attention at the software side of HT.

But lets hope that they start to do a better job of covering whatever it is they decide to cover.

Agreed. The Cable 2002 article was pointless. They start off saying how there was "far too much information" for just one article to cover and what do we get? The next two pages are filled with pictures of different cables and a brief description of what each is. So, the follow-up articles are going to be what? Five pages of pictures? I'm not saying fill the sheets with graphs and lingo that hardcore enthusiasts would understand but leave the novice in the dark, but at least go into some detail as to what each cable specifically does and why it is better/worse than other cables. I mean, surely you know that the "Cable Debate" in Home Theater is very hotly contested...well, give the readers the information so they can make a decision.
Overall, it is a readable scribe and certainly, some sections show a great potential. But, excessive hardware reviews and little information on the process of DVD creation and its impact causes me to rethink my subscription. I hope that future editions turn back towards the DVD side of HT.
Bruce

 

[terry malibu]

Hi Max,
Regarding your comment about Freq. Response and speakers...I have been in the consumer electronics field for 22 years, and no one I know in the business ever equated spec's with performance.
Does the performance of a Porsche on a race track have any bearing on how that car will perform on the 405 in L.A.? No it does not, in fact the things that make it a great ride on the track will make it feel stiff and heavy on the highway, to some.
We are committed to giving our readers real world reviews, our opinions and subjective analysis.
The fact is, reputable companies do not lie about their spec's because if they did, they would be out of business in no time flat....repeating what is printed by the company is not a good use of space in a magazine....telling readers how the product sounds or looks, is. While I was publisher of Home Theater magazine, for over 4 years, not once did we find a product that did not meet spec....in fact, the charts and graphs printed in the magazine were read by less than 1 % of all readers. Readers are not shallow, most just want good, concise information they can understand to help them make a buying decision.
That is what DVD ETC. will strive to provide.

Terry

 

[Brian E]

So is it a DVD mag or a HT mag? I was thinking of subscribing, but if it's going to focus on hardware I don't know if I will. There are already so many hardware mags out there. Some hardware would be good, but not a majority. I guess the name of the mag gave me the impression it would focus more on discs. I'm by no means what I would consider 'high-end'. Probably have about $2,000 - $2,500 in equipment. Just enough for me to get some good sound and enjoy my movies. I guess on the sofware side I could be called an enthusiast, about 650 DVD titles and 150 LD & VHS combined.

So I guess what I'm asking is...
is this a mag more like S&V and HT or is it a DVD mag?


Thanks

 

[terry malibu]

Hi Brian,
In answer to your question, if cornered,I would have to say we will be more like S&V and HT, yet very different in the direction we come from... and if that disappoints you, I'm sorry. The reality is that software magazines appeal to a very tiny audience, and that's not to say it is not an important one but it is miniscule.
The main reason for this is that the general buying public get's their information on software in so many places. By the time a movie is released on disc, the majority of consumers know the movie, and have made a decision on whether or not they are going buy it. They are buying it because they like the movie, period. Financially, because of the small # of hard core software readers, software magazines are just not viable. What we are trying to achieve here is to give the reader a good general description of what they can expect. We will also be covering DVD Audio in every issue as well as DVD authoring, which will get a lot of ink in issues to come.
Our tag line is "The Heart of Home Entertainment". The DVD player is the heart of any system and in keeping with this, you will see a similar # of hardware reviews in each issue... why? Because the vast majority of new DVD player owners do not have a HT, and we believe that after they make that player purchase, they will begin considering a HT, and we are here to help guide them.
We hope you will keep an open mind, keep giving us your feedback and give the magazine a chance...I believe you will be glad you did.

Thanks,
Terry

 

[David Lambert]

I just read a review of a DVD in our first issue and do you know what I got out of it? Sounds like it's one I want to own so I am going to buy it....that's it, plain and simple.

You don't say which one. :frowning:
The different reviews have different amounts of information in them.
The reviews of "Monty Python's Flying Circus" and "Fawlty Towers" are both excellent, for the space provided. They give a recap of the *show's* content, and in the case of the latter a bit of history behind it as well. This answers "who would like this?". Both give a recap of the contents of the *disc set*, which (sorry to disagree with you, MaxY), is a necessity for anyone who hasn't found or bothered to look up the back of the box yet. And finally, each "rates" the level of the video and audio materials (albeit a better and more complete job of it is done on Monty Python then on Fawlty Towers), letting us know whether the quality is there or not. All of these are important elements in decided to make a purchase.
At the other end of the spectrum is the review for Star Trek TNG: Season One. It blithely assumes that everyone knows what THE NEXT GENERATION is all about (is that EVER a safe assumption?), and actually manages to feel insulting to TNG fans in the process! This whole bit about "what still has fans clamoring over it...Was it the characters? The stories? Nah, it had to be the cutting-edge special effects...". :frowning: Very poor taste, I can say, as a died-in-the-wool TNG fan. Actually, the FX were indeed well-done by yesterday's standards, and even hold up a bit today when viewed in historical perspective (just as TOS's FX do), but it is clear that FX technology on TV shows has far outstripped that stuff...hardly the reason ANYONE is still clamoring for the show. I think it might be the often ingenious stories and the well-done characters created by an outstanding set of actors after all!
Gee, that's just my opinion...as a fan. Did you want to insult a gazillion Trekkies in print? Off to a good start, then!
Going on with the TNG review, it does indeed do nothing more than recap the back of the box, while at the same time giving you no information about whether the materials have held up well over 15 years. It mentions the 5.1 remix, but doesn't tell you if it WORKS well or not. Other than the final paragraph, which basically tells me "well, it's better than the DVD's for TOS", this review doesn't actually *review* anything at all!
Another example of this problematic style is in the "Gimme Shelter" review. I'm just a casual fan of the Stones, and so have never seen this thing, so here's my chance to read up on it, right? Well, the review says it's a documentary, but then describes being "in the 5th row of the Garden in 1969", which makes it sound like a concert. Okay, I assume that there's concert footage in the documementary movie, but I feel uncomfortable with that as a conclusion; I still don't know if this is for me or not. The extras description is back-of-the-box quality, but I don't understand at all this reference to the "Sonny Barger telling his side of the story", nor the first paragraph's mention of a "stabbing scene". Are these related or not. I'm confused. I *do* understand the final paragraph's notes about the high quality...but is this something I'd enjoy? I still don't know...and I'm unsure if it's worth my time to dig deeper or not. I'm more likely to say, "Ah, forget it".
How well would *I* do in trying to review discs in such a short amount of space? I'm not so sure; as you can tell by my reviewing style, I tend to babble on quite a bit! However, at the end of my review, I want to be able to have provided enough information for the reader to decide "yes" or "no" based on what I've told them. I don't think they SHOULD...multiple opinions should always be sought out when it comes to reviews. But hopefully I paint a complete picture. Fortunately, the site my reviews are posted to give me the room to do that!
In the amount of space you are giving the reviews in your magazine...even the longer-than-the-rest Harry Potter one...you are giving the reader no more than a taste; a starting point. That's fine, if that's your intent.
But it should at least be enough information for the reader to decide whether or not to delve deeper. I must agree with MaxY on this: the majority of the reviews in the first issue do NOT accomplish this.
Please understand, Terry (and Ron!) that we are not trying to do anything more than offer constructive criticism. Your offer to MaxY to write a review was very generous; it shows you comprehend that he's trying to help, and perhaps he can SHOW you what he means.
The magazine will definately evolve over time, and the real question is whether or not anyone wants to subscribe and to watch and be part of that evolution? I'll sign up by next payday, for sure. But please think more about the software side of the magazine. After all, that's what DVD's are all about, aren't they? "The play's the thing..."

 

[terry malibu]

Hi David,
Good constructive criticsm! Thank You.
You are right, it is a small amount of space and we are trying to keep them (reviews) short and sweet. What I found most interesting was your comment regarding Star Trek TNG...you see the writer is a dyed in the wool Trekkie...I mean this is a guy who got married in full Star Trek dress at the Star Trek expo in Las Vegas!(I am forwarding him this string).
Anyway, thank you for your comments and I promise you we will do what we can to make this one of the best magazines around!
Oh, and buy 'Gimme Shelter'...it is fantastic!

Terry

 

[Jack Briggs]

Hey guys, I'm speaking from experience here: Start-up publications take a few issues to find their "voices." And in the current, non-print-friendly era, it's a challenge to launch a magazine in the first place. Now the home-theater community has a new glossy to which it can look. I'm just glad to see another magazine.

 

[Mike Frezon]

I'm still trying to find a copy of the magazine in a local B&M before deciding on a subscription (and my time is running out to take advantage of the HTF deal!). I have twice been to my local Borders and Barnes & Noble (including tonight!) to try and find one, but came up empty both times. Any other recommendations of where I should try? I live in the Albany, New York-area.