Father Knows Best -- Season 2!!! (1 Viewer)

[Jude86]

I'm surprised but delighted we are getting another episode of "Window on Main Street" included--we know that this series would have never seen the light of day via reruns, much less on its own on DVD. I agree with Gary--I'm supporting this release, despite whatever shortcomings, seeing as how Sony really doesn't give a flip. (I was shocked to hear that they are finally releasing Partridge Family season 3).

 

[Joe Lugoff]

I had mentioned on this forum that if Shout! were really on the ball, they'd include a very strange "episode" from Season 2, and now TVShowsonDVD is reporting that they ARE!

That would be "Stagecoach to Yuma," from Dec. 7, 1955.

TVShowsonDVD, or Shout!, or someone, refers to it as a "pilot" for a Western series, but I don't think that's correct. I read an article in a TV Guide from 1955, after FKB had come back from the dead (CBS had cancelled it, but NBC decided to give it another chance), and in discussing his return to production, Robert Young said so that he wouldn't get tired of playing Jim Anderson every week (he had done it for six years on the radio before the TV series began), he was going to do something "different" some weeks, playing a different character in a totally different setting.

And this "Stagecoach to Yuma" was the one and only time he did exactly that. (The ratings must have plummeted that week!)

It's amazing that Shout! was able to find that and present it as an extra on this Season 2 set.

One would think if they could find that, they could find complete episodes. There's still no indication whether or not Season 2 will have complete episodes or a bunch of "syndicated" versions, as Season 1 had. (Ominously, the cover art for Season 2 shown on TVShowsonDVD doesn't have the word "complete" on it anywhere.)

 

[Gary OS]

Very nice extras on this set. I'm not gonna lie, I was a little disappointed to read that the episode from Young's WINDOW ON MAIN ST series wasn't "Christmas Memory" (a personal long sought after episode of mine), but overall this looks like another nice set from Shout.

Gary "can't wait for the release of this set" O.

 

[MARC1]

I was hoping for the FKB holiday reunion movies from the 70's as an extra.
I still can't wait to get season 2.

 

[Carabimero]

It blows my mind that somewhere, somebody didn't have complete episodes (I would have thought RY did).

 

[Charles H]

I'm amazed that Shout has what they have. Imdb is missing cast details and episode details on the Season 1 and 2 releases.

 

[The Obsolete Man]

This debate has been had quite a few times, and the general thoughts are that there are complete, uncut episodes out there somewhere in the hands of collectors, but they wouldn't necessarily be of the best quality for DVD use, and the collectors might not want to part with their special, possibly one of a kind collectible for the masses to enjoy because the masses didn't work hard and spend a lot of money to get this old 16mm or 35mm print.

I know you're on the Marvel Masterworks board, Carab, so look at it this way... say you had a copy of Action Comics #2, and DC Comics didn't have one. Would you give that book you worked hard to find up to DC to do what they needed to do to make an Archive quality reprinting of it, risk possibly destroying or losing the book in the process, just so others could enjoy it?

Perhaps you would, but many collectors wouldn't. They've got theirs, and that's good enough for them.

As for FKB... The extras almost make up for the possibility of edited episodes. I may give season 2 a chance, in the hope that unedited episodes will come one day.

 

[Carabimero]

I should rephrase and say that I am amazed that someone in an official position did not have complete runs, but it was the 1950s, not the 60s, and I suppose that could make a difference.

Poor Avengers fans and Dr. Who fans (not to mention others) have gaps of whole missing episodes!

 

[Gary OS]

I thought the consensus at this point is that the reason we aren't getting pristine, uncut episodes is because this set isn't being put out by Sony. They are the ones that probably have access to uncut prints. Shout is, probably per their agreement with Sony, getting their prints from the RY Estate. So they are stuck with what is provided to them. I say we should be grateful for what we are getting because the chances that this series is ever aired again is unlikely.

As for the situation about donating episodes for the masses, I'd do it if I owned them. I find the collector's hoarding mentality to be disgusting. If people have clean prints of a show and are unwilling to share those with others I have zero respect for them. But that's just my opinion.

Gary "funny thing is I have known hoarding FKB collectors just like the ones Obsolete Man is referring to - it's not at all hypothetical" O.

 

[Joe Lugoff]

The playground mentality of "I have something you don't have!" never leaves us.

I just don't understand why R-Y didn't keep pristine master prints. When the Arnaz kids did "Here's Lucy" with Shout!, they had the most gorgeous prints I think I've ever seen! (Still didn't make it a good show, though.)

 

[Gary OS]

It's a real shame about that childish mentality, but you are right Joe. There will always be selfish collectors that refuse to share their treasures with others.

This is a guess on my part, but I'd say Young and his Estate didn't realize how important uncut masters would be down the road. No one in the 50's, 60's, 70's, or even 80's could have predicted the advent of TV on DVD. The problem we are seeing with these FKB sets are the same we are seeing with the syndicated OZZIE & HARRIET sets that Shout is releasing. My understanding is that the Nelson Estate re-did the majority of their episodes for syndication years ago and didn't keep the original masters. Or if they did keep them they are in such poor shape Shout doesn't feel they can put them out. Either way, these issues are just matters of not foreseeing what the future would bring. It's a real shame.

Gary "I do still believe Sony has better, more complete prints of FKB - but since they care nothing about releasing the show themselves we will have to be content with what we can get" O.

 

[Steve...O]

The Arnaz family aside, it's generally been the case that when an actor or director takes possession of the film elements along with the rights, bad things happen. They just don't have the facilities to properly maintain the prints nor the business acumen to safeguard the rights.

Examples:

Hitchcock retained ownership of 4 films. RAH had to pull off near miracles to restore two of them (Vertigo and Rear Window)

Bob Hope owned a handful of his films which are now public domain and commercially exist only in subpar versions.

Roy Rogers owned his TV series. The masters were sold to a private collector and the series is now PD with no high quality releases.

Ozzie & Harriett - previously mentioned (and quite unfortunate)

I'm sure there are others.

 

[Joe Lugoff]

I would suspect the Arnaz kids also were willing to spend whatever money was required for restoration, under the principle that you have to spend money to make money.

If the estates really cared about the legacy of whatever it is that's in their trust, they'd put out the highest quality product possible.

 

[DeWilson]

I liked "Here's Lucy" MORE than I did "I Love Lucy" and "The Lucy Show"!

Fortunate for us when Lucy sold DESILU to Paramount/Gulf+Western, she KEPT ownership of "Here's Lucy" and was smart enough to keep masters,etc.
(It's been said Lucy was one smart businesswoman!)

 

[Joe Lugoff]

Not that it matters, but since it's under discussion here, I feel exactly the opposite.

"The Lucy Show" wasn't half as good as "I Love Lucy," and "Here's Lucy" wasn't half as good as "The Lucy Show."

And all the books on Lucille Ball and Desilu say that she didn't have the slightest idea of business -- she merely did what her advisers and lawyers told her to do.

 

[Carabimero]

It's been said that Lucy actually greenlit Star Trek because she misunderstood the title and thought it was going to be a series that tracked movie stars, and that appealed to her.

Believe it or not.

 

[Carabimero]

As far as keeping uncut version of work, I can tell you that whether I believe my novels will ever sell large numbers or not, or whether they will be read by future generations, I am keeping unedited versions of them (publishers have shortened them). My point is, one would think Robert Young, out of professional pride, if nothing else, would have kept uncut copies of what was clearly, even at the time, a great show.

 

[Joe Lugoff]

Yes, it's incredible. I've heard stories of movies and TV shows being cut, for various reasons, and after cutting, the original negatives being thrown away!

As for Lucy, the books say she wasn't very bright at all (and also very tight.) I'm a big fan of her as an actress, but that doesn't mean I have to believe she was great in all ways, like some other fans do.

 

[The Obsolete Man]

Lucy was smart enough to listen to the smart people who knew what they were talking about, so that's got to count for something.

However, I'd say that Desi was the real brains behind Desilu, and the studio may have continued to be a powerhouse if the divorce hadn't happened.

JMO, Mileage varies.

Anyway, We're all obviously classic TV fans in this thread, so we all know about how shabby classic TV has been treated until recently. From the horror stories of the entirety of the Dumont network programming being dumped in a body of water in New York, stories like the Nelson family chopping up their show for Syndication, and on and on and on...

Sad as it is to say, until the past couple of Decades, TV was treated a lot like... well, comic books (since I referenced 'em earlier in the thread). Both were treated as a disposable medium with very little thought given to preserve the original masters until it was far too late, and those of us who care about the mediums are paying for it now.

 

[David Lambert]

Let's get this thread back on track, shall we?


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