Fantasia question (1 Viewer)

[Brian Kidd]

Phew! Okay. Thanks to our forum member Stephen from the Great White North and his unbelievably astute memory for dates , I have been able to track down the American Cinematographer article from February 1991 concerning the restoration of the FANTASIA soundtrack.

Here are some excerpts from the article by David Heuring and George Turner:

On how the original tracks were recorded.



Most of the remainder of the article is technical details about the software and equipment used for noise reduction, etc. I guess the main points that can reasonably be made from the information in this article are

• The original sound stems are lost or simply missing.
• The 1990 restoration was indeed made from a copy of the 3-track master that had been transferrered over telephone lines to magnetic film.
• The magnetic copy was indeed multichannel and not mono.
• The surround information was recreated from notes as opposed to a physical represenation.

As far as the current dvd is concerned, I'm not sure how much of the 1990 restoration is utilized. There is obviously a new mix as the Deems Taylor narration has been re-recorded and the orchestra segments use footage that was not present in the 1990 version. Was the additional orchestra sound remixed in 1990 or was that done for the dvd? If so, did they start from the same magnetic source as the 1990 restoration or another source? Things to ponder, I guess.

I have a friend who manages the pre-1950's Disney negatives. I'll email him and see what original material still exists for the film. If I hear anything, I'll be sure to let you all know.

 

[Jay Pennington]

Yes, I remember that thread, and it was your assertion, Paul, that prompted me to re-read the press kit (although the thread was probably long gone before I came across the material in my *ahem* "archives" again).

Amazingly, in all these years I have yet to carefully re-listen to the soundtrack with this in mind, (perhaps tonight!), but until I do I've no reason not to trust YOUR ears.

Thanks for that last post, Brian! That certainly clears things up a bit.

 

[Stephen_J_H]

Slightly off topic here, but still concerning Fantasia, I discovered a couple of years back that the 1990 CD release of the soundtrack is Dolby Surround encoded. It makes for an interesting comparison with the 5.0 tracks on the DVD.

 

[Paul Penna]

Re: phone line transmission of the Fantasia soundtrack.

There are (and were) different kinds of phone lines. We're all familiar with the extremely limited frequency response of the typical voice line, but even back then the phone company had higher-bandwidth lines for specialized purposes. It was the latter kind used for the Fantasia soundtrack transmission to Disney's magnetic tape recorders. Even the pre-restored version on the LPs sound much better than what you'd get through an ordinary voice phone line.

 

[Paul Penna]

Be sure to try it with headphones, if possible. In addition to the discrete positioning of specific sounds, it's the overall three-dimensional ambiance of the sound that's always convinced me of the multi-channel authenticity of the recording. It's not the kind of thing that could be synthesized through filtering or manipulating phase, especially with the technology available back then.

Finally, it wasn't my intention to come down too hard on either Mr. Pennington or Mr. Rister; I can fully understand how the highly unconventional motion effects on the track could lead one to believe that they were the result of latter-day pan-potting.

And I'll add my thanks to Brian Kidd for those American Cinematographer quotes.

 

[Brian Kidd]

I got an email from my buddy in the vaults and he says that all he has is a protection copy of the soundtrack material. However, he's checking with Disney to see what materials are extant. I'll let you all know if I hear anything more.

 

[DeeF]

Just in case anyone was ever interested.

Harvey Fletcher was the supervisor of the acoustic group at Bell Laboratories who originally developed multi-channel sound in the late 1920s. He's the one who recorded the Philadelphia Orchestra with Stokowski, and got him interested in recording.

Harvey Fletcher was also the first president of the American Acoustical Society.

My grandfather.

 

[Paul Penna]

Cool! He is, in fact, mentioned in the background material in the liner notes of those LPs I mentioned.

 

[ChadMcCallum]

Thanks for clearing that up for me Ernest.

 

[Gunther Toody]

I just got around to purchasing the 60th anniversary edition from a third party seller on Amazon. It was cheap, but came without a case. I checked out the back cover on DVD empire and it lists "Rare Archival Interviews With Walt Disney -- Spanning 3 Decades!." All I see on the menu is Audio Commentaries and "The Making Of Fantasia" Featurette. No Walt Disney interviews exist!!! The disc art says 6oth Anniversary and the menus and such are all genuine. But did I get some kind of bootleg, is there an Easter Egg or is it just a defective disc that was recalled?

 

[Reagan]

Gunther,

One of the commentary tracks contains vintage and recreated (from meeting notes) interviews with Walt. Also the documentary has a few snippets of interviews with Walt.

-R

 

[Gunther Toody]

Thanks for the info Reagan! I'll check it out this weekend.

 

[Lord Dalek]

One must wonder if and when Disney finally bothers to do a Platinum edition release of Fantasia will it be uncensored?

 

[Brad Vautrinot]

While I agree in substance with most of the views expressed here - especially those of Ernest Rister - I feel that many of these movies were made during the then current political, social, and cultural climes of the times. As such I feel they are historically significant (from a film making point of view at least) and should be made available to those of us who desire the originals.

I'm sorry that I can't find the link to a site that had some info regarding Song Of The South where it was stated that the NAACP presently has no issue with the movie especially when, in 1948, an honorary Academy Award for his role as Uncle Remus was bestowed upon James Baskett. Zip-A-Dee-Doo-Dah was an Academy Award winning song. As of 4/15/08 there are 125,278 signatures on a petition to have this wonderful movies released in the U.S. Perhaps Disney could do this as one of their ltd. Walt Disney Treasures tins and have Leonard Maltin explain the controversy surrounding this movie with an appropriate disclaimer, if necessary. This delightful movie with its wonderful soundtrack should not be kept from Disney fans.

Wasn't something cut from Dumbo as well?

It seems a shame that one has to turn to Europe in order to purchase original, uncut movies made by an American icon of a company.

Brad

 

[Kevin M]

The "Jim Crow" sequence (my terminology) certainly wasn't cut from Dumbo...it has always struck me as hypocritical or at the very least odd that Disney finds such offense with all of these other sequences in their various films and shorts, to the point of cutting/altering them to protect impressionable young children, but these obvious racially stereotyped characters remain untouched.

 

[Stephen_J_H]

I'd like to see Fantasia get the "Walt Disney Treasures" treatment, with the original scenes intact and a disclaimer, a la Disney on the Front Lines and how it dealt with the propaganda films.

I too agree that the studio's stance on potentially offensive material has been scattershot. For example, was the smoking sequence removed from the Brave Little Tailor? How about the "Chinese Cat" in the Aristocats or the Siamese cats in Lady and the Tramp?

Let's get one thing straight before you all decide to flame me: I do not condone censorship in any way, shape or form. Disney is no different than the MPAA in this regard, as censorship decisions in both cases have been arbitrary.
Censorship doesn't work; the only thing that works is to be aware of content and to take the time to preview material before letting your kids watch it.

*Gets off soapbox*

 

[SilverWook]

It would be really neat to have a boxset of all the various versions of Fantasia. Didn't the early 80's reissue have a totally rerecorded Dolby Stereo soundtrack?

 

[Matt Hough]

It sure did, and it was widely criticized at the time for not quite matching the animation as well as the original soundtrack.

I saw it in a theater and really loved it. This was my first experience with the entire FANTASIA. (Lots of other changes were made to the film in the print I saw including losing the Deems Taylor narration).

I went right out after I left the theater and bought the new soundtrack LP. Whether it matched the visuals well or not, the recording was quite marvelous.

 

[Kevin M]

Yes, I too had that re-recorded soundtrack LP and it was, at the time, one of the better Digital recordings I had heard, very robust. The Rite Of Spring in particular blew you right out of your seat.
I think I still have it in a box somewhere.

 

[Lord Dalek]

I'd love to find another copy of the Irwin Kostel soundtrack since my 2-casette set of it disappeared many moons ago (since then I've made do with the sonically inferior 1990 release).