"Fair" pricing for CDs? (1 Viewer)

[Marc Colella]

My opinion... no regular, single-disc audio CD should cost more than $10 CAD.

So far, the average CD is around $18 CAD - and I see alot of CDs going for $25.99 - $27.99 CAD. Outrageous!

SACD and DVD-A discs should be priced no higher than $13 CAD.

The recording industry has tried everything to stop the decline of music sales, EXCEPT lowering the price of CDs.

The ball's in their court now... they decide whether they live or die.

 

[MarkHastings]

Sure, it can be considered, but that doesn't mean the artist should conform to what the public thinks it wants.

Oh no, Not at all. The artist doesn't HAVE to do what the public wants. As long as the same artist doesn't complain when the public feels the high price is not "worth it".

That's what I was getting at.

 

[Jeff Ulmer]

The artist doesn't HAVE to do what the public wants. As long as the same artist doesn't complain when the public feels the high price is not "worth it".

Fair enough, however the record companies already do a pretty good job on the artist when it comes to directing them towards what they think they can sell, which is why there is so much crap in the market place. Let the artists (face it, not all musicians are artists) make art, and if people find it appealing, great. If not, great also, at least what they are creating is pure. We don't need to stifle creativity just so someone can rip an MP3 more conveniently.

"The people" didn't know they wanted The Beatles or Elvis. It was the fact that they were creating something unexpected that made them exciting. Today, the media and advertising departments try to convince you that the act du jour is the thing to have, but an honest and positive reaction from the material itself is far better in my mind than any hype used to move volume and enhance the bottom line. I want to be blown away.

 

[MarkHastings]

"The people" didn't know they wanted The Beatles or Elvis. It was the fact that they were creating something unexpected that made them exciting.

Yes, but I don't think they priced their albums higher than the "norm" when they first came out.

Unless you have a following that is willing to spend the money, I doubt that you can charge $13-$15 for a CD and make everyone happy.

 

[Ken Stuart]

"The people" didn't know they wanted The Beatles ... It was the fact that they were creating something unexpected that made them exciting.

Jeff, this one point is actually not true.

"The people" created The Beatles. The Beatles started out playing standards that were being played by plenty of groups. But, although from years later it looks like The Beatles were a studio band, they were actually primarily a live band (for the first half of their career).

In order to make a living, they played hours and hours per night live at clubs. They thus learned exactly what people really wanted to hear, from seeing what got the best reaction. This was essential in creating the hit music that swept the world - because it was exactly what people wanted. (Which, by the way, is not always the same as what people think they want.)

The record companies have always been pretty good at excluding what people really want. Decca rejected The Beatles demo tape with the famous line (in 1962) "Guitar groups are on the way out."

Neil Young, out of curiosity and to make a point, once sent one of his platinum selling albums from earlier in his career, to several record industry A&R guys, under an assumed name. Not only did all of them reject the album for musical reasons, none of them recognized it as an existing album of a famous artist...

The only two major rock talents of the last 10 years, Kurt Cobain and Trent Reznor, both built up large followings by word of mouth prior to getting contracts from the record industry.

 

[Will_B]

Also, packaging is an integral part of the product to me, so releasing without a high quality print job isn't an option.

And every author would prefer their book be bought as a nice hardcover rather than as a paperback. Or as a trade paperback rather than as a mass market paperback.

It sounds like the following would not be something you'd like: Include the artwork as a download, amid the mp3s. People have color printers now. They can print the cover themselves if they want one.

Packaging may be important to you, but only some customers feel that way. Many people throw away the packaging now and just stick the disc in a binder. Crazy? Maybe. But they end up with more room to live in, which they seem to like. So again, making the option of packaging being available as a download helps cater to both audiences.

The general advice here is, cater to the people, or the people won't be your customers.

 

[Jeff Ulmer]

Good environmentally friendly angle there Will.

All good perspectives, keep 'em coming.

 

[Steve Owen]

Here's another thing that I'm not sure has been brought up. Many CDs now are coming with "free" extras... DVDs with videos, "making of" documentaries, and surround sound mixes, special access to online content, and even deals on concert tickets. Recent CDs I've purchased with extras include the latest from Foo Fighters, Queens of the Stone Age, and Metallica. That's value added. When I'm holding two CDs in my hand, both for $10, but one comes with a DVD, which do you think I'm going to buy?

Another reason they've HAD to do this is to compete with online sources and against DVDs. I don't think you can discount the effect of competition with DVDs. For $15 (or often less) I can get a decent movie with a whole bunch of extras. There are very few places that sell CDs but don't sell DVDs these days. Even places that have traditionally been music stores now keep a lot of DVDs as well. So if I go music shopping, that DVD competition is there in the store.

-Steve

 

[MarkHastings]

Another reason they've HAD to do this is to compete with online sources and against DVDs

And to also persuade people into buying it instead of downloading (for free) all of the songs. The Jackass movie soundtrack came with a free DVD that has a couple music videos on it, plus other Jackass stuff

Since a lot of people are downloading these songs for free, the music companies are doing whatever they can to give you MORE than just a CD for your $10.

 

[Jeff Ulmer]

For $15 (or often less) I can get a decent movie with a whole bunch of extras.

While this is quite true, I think I get more bang for the buck with a good CD (this is the big point of course) than with a DVD, which I will play once and file for months or years, where a CD will be played many, many times in a short span, especially since they can be played while doing other things, or while driving.

If the added value stuff is the only thing that is drawing the purchase, then perhaps the album isn't strong enough to warrant a purchase in the first place.

 

[Lee Scoggins]

I think I get more bang for the buck with a good CD (this is the big point of course) than with a DVD, which I will play once and file for months or years, where a CD will be played many, many times in a short span, especially since they can be played while doing other things, or while driving.

Jeff, I agree with you on this but I do think many average consumers find there to be more value from a movie loaded with features than a typical pop CD where there is maybe only 1-2 tracks they like but wind up spending $13-14 for.

Wouldn't it be great if you could have the advantage of owning equity in your product but also get access to major label distribution and promotion?

I think the record labels need to lower the barriers to having new artists who serve a nice niche like your self but may not at this point sell a million copies.

It seems to me that all the "industry" cares about is finding the next big thing. In the long run, there becomes less diversity, less artist development, less quality, less room for my jazz and acoustic buddies, and for guitarists like yourself.

Think about this...I have worked with a great guitarist Badi Assad, sister of world famous Sergio and Odair (teachers of people like Eric Clapton-no lie). She plays some of the most technically brilliant guitar around but she struggles to have a reasonable living off her art. I think with a few more open minds at the big labels, she could be a big star. Whenever I play her CDs, people love it and want a copy. But you will never hear her on the radio...but a talentless totally coached "boy band"?...played until your ears bleed...

The key is artist development and freedom:

1. Allow for smaller music niches and promote more variety.
2. Give artists "equity" in their own cash flow. If the artist sells $1 million, take a cut but let them benefit directly and not through some legalistic contract that requires an attorney and accountant to figure out.

The world would be a better, more musical place if these two things were implemented.

Anyway, I'll get off the soap box now.

 

[Ken Stuart]

where a CD will be played many, many times in a short span, especially since they can be played while doing other things, or while driving.

You've just countered your own argument that only a high quality version is tolerable.

Who needs perfect soundstaging, inner detailing, and clear reverb tails, when you are typing at your computer, or driving in your car?

192 kbps MP3 is perfectly good for those activities, and 320 kbps MP3 is better than most sources of the past. Remember that Dolby and DTS get 6 channels into 384 kbps or 448 kbps.

 

[Ken Stuart]

It seems to me that all the "industry" cares about is finding the next big thing.

They stopped doing that years ago.

For the past 10-15 years, all they care about is creating the next big thing, and then making sure everyone buys it. (Cf. Brittany Spears, In Sync, etc.)

 

[Thomas Newton]

For an independent artist, a lot of the trouble is getting known, and getting record store shelf space.

Freely-redistributable MP3s of some (but not all) of an album's best tracks might be one way to address the former problem. Naturally, the MP3s would need to contain ID3 tags with the artist and album names, and information about where listeners can buy the album. Seed a few music stores and shareware sites with copies, and let word of mouth and people's curiosity do the rest. Once people know they like the music, the $13 CD will be a much easier sell.

Think outside the box -- if the artist gives great live shows, offer the people who come to the show the option to purchase CDs of it for $10 more. Take the names, addresses, and money ... run a master recording off to a CD-R plant ... send the CDs out within a few weeks of the concert date. Now you've got a list of people who probably like the artist's music, so in the mailing of the merchandise, you can include an ad/order form for any other albums or videos the artist might be selling.

 

[David Coleman]

I think that a single CD shoudn't list for more than $14.98 and a 2 CD set no more than $19.98 and these should be new releases. Any single disc catalog release shouldn't list for more than $9.99- PERIOD!!! 2CD catalog release shouldn't be anymore than $15.99. I think this pricing is fair.

The reality of the music business is that it doesn't provide good value for the consumer. When you can purchase a DVD of a 1yr old DVD priced at $14.98 and you'd have the same price for a 20yr old CD then somethings wrong?!!! Even if the economic realities exist for the pricing of CD's that high, the perception is poor value and in today's economy perception is sometimes the reality! The music business has to change with the times!

The whole mp3 debate reminds me of the Disney/Betamax lawsuit back when the VCR began and how Disney argued that it would ruin the industry, when in fact it helped the industry! If the market was turning where people were looking for easily accessible music, without needing a physical carrier, then the industry should have reacted to it! I think the proof is in systems like the Apple music download service! Honestly I would pay to download a song I want to have as long as I can archive it and pay a small price to have that. Especially since the music industry doesn't make all it's music available on Compact Disc, for some this would be the only chance to collect some of our beloved music. Especially enticing to someone like me is that the music industry can provide downloads at higher quality (think higher bitrate than the norm 128kbs)than you can download on the free services!

Technology should be welcomed and not feared!!!

David

 

[Ken Stuart]

Especially enticing to someone like me is that the music industry can provide downloads at higher quality (think higher bitrate than the norm 128kbs)than you can download on the free services!

A variety of bitrates are used on the P2P systems. A majority are 128kbps, but one often finds 192 and sometimes 320.

The advantage to a pay service is that the MP3s are always available, in any bitrate, and created from a quality source. (On P2P, that 320kbps MP3 could have been made from a pre-recorded cassette!)

 

[MarkHastings]

Ken,

Exactly! High bit rate NEVER guarantees High Quality.

 

[LanceJ]

Seems some people here are trying to equate musical satisfaction with a "normal" product, like it's a box of frozen peas or a motorcycle tune-up.

Is that possible?

While I don't think we should have to pay outlandish prices for music (just enough so the artist can have a decent place to live & food on the table) putting art in the same category as physical things just doesn't work for me.

I just read a review of a new Tacet classical dvd-audio where the author complained there were no extras (videos, interviews, etc), but said if you just wanted to hear music then he rated the disc a good value. Huh??? Me and him definitely have a different view of what is valuable when buying music software! Extras are just that: extras. Like finding an extra burrito that you didn't order at the bottom of your Taco Bell bag: woohoo! As long as I got my gordita & my two supreme soft tacos I did order I'm satisfied.

I'm not afraid of technology but I do get worried about it when we start sacrificing quality and musical integrity because we're in a too much of a hurry or too......value-minded.

BTW: I still don't understand how people truly listen to music while plunking away on a computer. I play music while writing this stuff (Becks "Odelay" right now!) but I'm not actually listening to it--it's more of a background filler thing. I'm one of those weird people who actually sits in front of a stereo to listen to music, though the car is probably my favorite place to spin a CD: moving down the road & hearing a good tune at the same time can be SOOOO cool.

LJ

 

[Mike Broadman]

Lance, I totally agree with you. I also can't think of a CD as just another "product." I understand that, technically and in business terms it is, and that's why I don't debate the business and legal aspect of the music industry too much around here, but I can't help the way I feel.

Even the equipment I use to listen to the music is a "product" to me, as I think in terms of value for my money (ie, getting the best sounding speakers within my budget). But music isn't just a piece of entertainment for me that I'm buying.

Once I decide I can afford a CD, I never regret buying it for a second. The pleasure I derive I from it makes it more than just a shiny round piece of metal.

I still don't understand how people truly listen to music while plunking away on a computer.

FWIW, I do it all the time. I guess I've just trained myself to be able to concentrate on more than one thing. For example, I'm listening to music now (and yes, "really" listening). But I'm paying much more attention to it than to writing these posts, which may explain why I often have so many typos and such.

 

[Mikael Soderholm]

Much of the music I like has no distribution in Sweden, so I buy from foreign e-tailers, artit's websites etc.
Yesterday I was alerted to the fact that one of my favorite artists, David Sylvian, has a new album available on his new web site. It was $15.99 plus another $7 shipping, and I thought that was a good deal (especially since I don't think it will ever reach Sweden the regular way). That doesn't mean I find $22 to be a generally acceptable price for CDs, although I have paid that (and more) for other albums. I have also picked up several CDs in second hand stores for $5-10, so I guess there is not pre-set point where the price becomes 'fair' to me, it depends on which CD, which artist, how hard it is to find and how badly I want it.