DSOTM SACD disc defect....check yours (1 Viewer)

[Michael St. Clair]

These internet forums are a tiny, tiny niche of society.

If a couple of dozen people (several of whom have gone through multiple defective copies) have the problem here, it is likely that throughout the world that at least tens of thousands of the new DSotM discs are defective.

Many of us have experienced lockups when playing this disc, when none of our other SACDs have done the same.

Will Crest warranty my SACD player against damage while playing this disc? No.

Have Crest's tests including playing the disc in common CD-ROM and DVD-ROM drives, many of which will automatically spin discs at speeds of 16x, 24x, and greater upon insertion? Hub cracks which appear cosmetic have been known to cause discs to shatter in such drives.

Trying to downplay this as a non-event is offensive, and completely lacking in objectivity.

 

[Javier_Huerta]

Catalogue number (spine)



Cracks (picture 1):



Cracks (picture 2):

 

[Dave Moritz]

Hey Al,

I was just trying to get this thread to be alittle more possitive. I sould imagine that most of us here back the SACD format. I am not a big Sony fan but I am happy with the SACD player I purchased (a Sony DVP-S9000 ES) and I really like the SACD format. I believe that this is a good tread for people that have had problems with there disc cracking to get information. But I also do not see any harm in wishing that certain titles would be released. We all know that the available titles are slim at this time, lmao .

I over reacted alittle Al so I must appologize as well.

I feel your pain Michael I had a cd come apart in my Phillips 42 x burner and I had to take it apart and clean out all the peices. The disc came apart with enough force to blow the cd rom drawer cover off the computer. I guess we can compare Crest handling of the faulty discs with Universals initial handling of the BTTF fiasco, lmao.

Both Crest and Universal both claimed that the flaw did not affect the product. mmmmmm I wonder if they are owned by the same person

I guess the only thing we can do about this problem is to take the disc's back to the store we purchased them from and exchange them. Preferable with disc's that are not made at the US plant so we can avaoid getting another flawed disc for now.

 

[Lee Scoggins]

Not to come off arrogant, but life is to short to worry about trivial things as this.

Jerry, thank you for some common sense advice.

 

[LanceJ]

Wow, all those cracks in just 4 weeks of playing & handling them. What happens after 4 MONTHS of playing & handling them?

LJ

 

[Al B. C]

My contention all along "GIVE US THE FRIGGIN' MUSIC"

 

[Ike]

Now that someone posted a picture of what the cracks look like, my copy does seem to have little nicks around the spindle hole. I'm not that worried about it, other than if it spreads, I don't have my receipt from DDCD. I'm not enough of a Floyd fan to risk getting another defective disk.

 

[Al B. C]

Well since the retailers have been doing exchanges I don't see cosmetic issues as a big deal.

Javier, thanks for the photos but these pictures just show some minor cosmetic stuff around spindle. There is no penetration into the reflective layer so you should not have any problem.

Lee - you are starting to sound like that Iraqi info guy....

"There is no penetration into the inner layer of Baghdad"

 

[Michael St. Clair]

Cracks are structural damage and are likely to spread, especially since the hub of the disc is subjective to the most stress/torque. There's really no such thing as a 'cosmetic' crack in this case. Scratches can be cosmetic, but not a crack...a crack at the center of a wheel.

Would you drive your car 70mph down the highway if you saw small cracks extending from the lug holes on your steel rims? You'd be a damned fool if you did.

Also, with a crack, the stress can extend beyond the crack. When spinning, the crack could allow stress to extend beyond the visible end of the crack, into the data substrate. This could certainly cause delamination that may or may not be visible to the eye.

I'm not a rocket scientist, but I did study engineering for a while before switching to software development. You don't have to know a hell of a lot about structural engineering to understand the issues that can come into play with these kinds of defects.

 

[Lee Scoggins]

Would you drive your car 70mph down the highway if you saw small cracks extending from the lug holes on your steel rims?

A better question may be: would you drive 70 if there were cracks in your hubcaps? yes, I would because the worst that could happen is the hubcap falls off.

If the discs truly represent structural damage, then there is a problem but no one has presented any evidence of that. Until we have some, I tend to believe the disc mfg experts. They could not even create a failed disc with a stressfull aging process. Seems robust testing to me.

 

[Michael_T]

Regardless of whether these cracks, at this point in time, are considered "cosmetic" or otherwise - THEY ARE STILL A DEFECT.

I just purchased a new 2003 RAV4. It has what I found out to be the infamous dash rattle "defect". The car still drives, but the dash rattle noise drove me crazy. I had it fixed under warranty, as per a Toyota Technical Service Bulletin. This has been a problem with this model since they redesigned the car in 2001 - enough so they have issued a TSB. Did they actually fix the problem on the assembly line - NO. So yes, the dash rattle is minor in the scheme of things, but it is still a defect in the design of the car.

My point here is that the Crest disc, while a minor defect, is a defect nonetheless. And it is a defect in the design of the hybrid SACD they manufacture and the type of plastic they use.

Whether I spend $22,000 for a car or $14.99 for an SACD I expect it to perform to "MY" expectations. And "MY" expectations are that the car and SACD be free of any defects, at least for a specific period of time. If these discs start to crack 10 years from now (and only 10 years from now) - OK - still a problem, still a defect - but one that was probably not foreseeable. If these discs crack less than 1 month from release date - definite problem - a defect that probably was foreseeable if the correct testing was done initially.

 

[Javier_Huerta]

Just so that you people know, I now have in my hands a PERFECT DSOTM copy!!!!!! No cracks!!!

Here's what I did. I went to my local CD shop, and bought it as soon as I noticed it read "EMI" instead of "Capitol" on the back cover.

I now own two versions of the same album. Here are the differences between the two of them.

Cracked copy: Made in the USA.
Non-cracked (NC) copy: Made in the EU.

Cracked: Capitol
NC: EMI

Cracked: CDP 7243 5 82136 2 1-US
NC: 7243 582136 2 |

Cracked: Disc has a blue background, prism and rays of color reflecting from it.
NC: Disc has a big blue prim, rays of color, and it looks like a stained-glass design.

There are lots of other differences (the NC copy has a different box which makes it easier to take out the booklet, the booklet is BEAUTIFUL - glossy and smooth to the touch), and the artwork is different (yep, it is): the NC copy has some sort of a big pink shadow on the right side of it, and the back cover is completely different.


Phew.

 

[Kevin C Brown]

I have a US disc. Unplayed: no cracks. Played it once last night: cracks. Me no like.

Like the sound: I agree with Lee, 2 ch stereo track better than the original Japanese EMI/Harvest CD I have.

But me no like the cracks.

 

[Justin Lane]

I'm not a rocket scientist, but I did study engineering for a while before switching to software development. You don't have to know a hell of a lot about structural engineering to understand the issues that can come into play with these kinds of defects.

Well said Michael. As an engineer, I can tell you cracks are never a good thing. A visible crack represents a major dislocation within the crystal structure of a particular material.

Oc course Crest is going to say the cracks are harmless because this represnts a major black eye on their Hybrid production. Unless Crest designed the discs to have cracks from the get go (which they didn't), they are just feeding everyone a line of BS, which some here appear to be buying. They have botched the biggest Hybrid release to date.

Crest Faulty Hybrids

J

 

[Kevin C Brown]

Well, also knowing a little about materials , the plastic that CD/SACDs/DVDs discs are made out of is polymer-based, which doesn't really have a "crystal structure" associated with it. More like an amorphous solid. But, I do agree, cracks are never a good thing. It's a stress relief mechanism within the solid. Crest should admit they screwed up, and replace all of the defective discs for free.

I'm going to try to gauge on mine, if the cracks get worse as I play it more, or is what I have after just one playing all I'm ever going to get. For those interested, other than the heat and physical stresses in a player, additional stresses to try and force failure are hot and cold outside of the player. (Put it on a heating vent for a day, put it in a freezer for a day.) None of these being temps that a disc in a postal truck driving from Minnesota in the winter to Texas in the summer wouldn't also be expected to encounter...

 

[Justin Lane]

HFR issued the following piece of Crest propaganda here

Crest produces optical discs for record companies under contract and they are Crest's customers. Crest says that consumers that have the SACDs with cracks should be able to return them to the record retailer where they purchased the SACD and get a replacement copy if they wish to replace the disc.

So what if you can no longer return your disc to the retailer you purchased the disc? I guess you are just screwed. Crest is handling this issue very poorly, avoiding accountability in all forms.

As a side note, anyone else think High Fidelity Review has their head a bit too close to the rectum of Crest?

J

 

[LanceJ]

Playing devil's advocate....Um, maybe HFR is just trying to be totally objective about all this?

Because anybody with an ounce of common sense can see Crest f***ked up big time and on one of the BEST SELLING MUSIC TITLES THIS PLANET HAS EVER KNOWN.

LJ

 

[Greg Johnson]

For what it's worth, I have 3 of the affected SACD's manufactured by Crest. Warren Bernhardt Ameilia's Song, Bob Mintzer Gently and DSOTM. All 3 discs have seen heavy rotation in both my 555ES and my car CD player. I examined all with a magnifying glass and can see no signs of cracking. I will continue to keep a close eye on these discs though.
I have to agree with some here that if the discs have cracks, they should be replaced with no questions asked. Maybe a recall is in order here.

Greg

 

[Dave Moritz]

I have had no problem exchanging the faulty DSOTM disc and am wondering if anyone that has tried to exchange them has had any difficulties?

 

[KeithH]

I found a Japanese copy at Best Buy today. The copy I bought at the same store the day the SACD came out was pressed in the US, so I guess it's a Crest copy. I figured they would just have US copies today, but to my surprise, most every copy they had was a Japanese pressing. The catalog number is CDP 7243 5 82136 2 1. Note that the catalog number does not end in "1-US". Also, the copyright information on the back insert for the Japanese copy says "Manufactured by Capitol Records, Inc., 1750 N. Vine Street, Hollywood 90028. Except Disc Manufactured in Japan for Capitol Records, Inc." Of course, my US copy lacks the "Except Disc" statement. Finally, the disc says "Manufactured in Japan".