DSLR advice? What camera's and lens to consider? (1 Viewer)

[Michael Harris]

Very good advice. How the Nikon D-70 felt in my hand was the tie breaker with a Canon EOS of similar quality. The D-70 just felt "right". Even though it is a bit old by current standadard, I love that camera.

 

[KeithAP]

I recently purchased a D80 with the 18-70 and I just added 50/1.8. It is my second camera and my first DSLR.

I got the D80/18-70 from Circuit City online. They had the D80 body on sale at the time for $920 plus I got a 10% off coupon from ebay for $2. I then got the CC credit card which qualified everything for 17 months same as cash. I could pay the entire thing off right away but I figure why not make a little interest off it. They really ding you for interest if you don't stick to their terms so be very careful with payments if you do it this way.

Anyways, looking back if I did it again I think I would go with either the Tamron 17-50/2.8 or the Sigma 18-50/2.8 Macro rather than the 18-70. I rather have the faster lens than the extra reach. You may want to look at these lenses as an alternative to the 18-70.

-Keith

 

[ManW_TheUncool]

Keith,

With the $$$ saved on the 18-70, you can always add a prime like the 35 f/2 (or maybe Sigma 30 f/1.4) for times when you need a brighter lens. Personally, I find that I could often use a bit faster than f/2.8 in situations where the 18-70 is not bright enough, so I decided to just add some primes instead of selling my 18-70 for one of the f/2.8 wide zooms. But that's just my own take and preference. Now, if I could get a f/2.8 wide zoom w/ IS built-in for a bit more, then I'm probably all there. Some are expecting/hoping Nikon will follow Canon and update their 17-55 f/2.8 w/ IS, but it'll probably be too expensive for me even if they keep it at the current ~$1200 price.

Chris,

I'm not usually bothered by the wavy geometry distortion at the wide end (except on few occasions) nor the bit of vignetting at/near wide open near the wide end. But then again, I haven't been using the lens much for photos where the distortion would be very apparent, eg. wideangle architectural photos w/ lots of straight line geometry taken in a straight-on manner, wide photos w/ straight lines lined up horizontally to the frame along the top and/or bottom (in landscape orientation).

And since I am often using my primes instead of the 18-70, I also rarely (need to) shoot the lens wide open, so haven't had too many occasions when the bit of vignetting might be an issue. I tend to use the 18-70 stopped down a bit -- maybe a stop or more usually. Still, the vignetting haven't bothered me at all when I do shoot it wide open on occasion. FWIW, I'm not sure, but I suspect most other APS crop wide zooms also vignette a bit when shot wide open -- that's just how things are w/ lens designs though the amount of vignetting can vary. And the same happens w/ FF 35mm wide zooms on FF bodies.

Finally, if I do get the Tokina 12-24 f/4, I might never again use the 18-70 where the wavy distortion would even show up -- and actually, I'm not sure I'd still need that lens anymore.

_Man_

 

[Chris PC]

Without beating a dead horse, what other lens should I consider instead of the 18-70 we're now discussing? What other Nikon and/or Sigma zooms or primes should I consider? I'd like another wide-zoom like an 18-70 or 55-whatever rather than a prime to start out with.

 

[ManW_TheUncool]

Chris,

If the 18-70 doesn't suit you, I'd suggest checking out the Tamron 17-50 f/2.8 or maybe Sigma 18-50 f/2.8 Macro. The Tamron choice would assume you're not going for the D40/D40x.

_Man_

 

[Chris PC]

Thanks. I don't really know if the 18-70 suits me or not. At $299 used I was figuring it would be ok, but if the "wavy" distortion is bothersome, that is bad. Vignetting is also not my fave. Body wise I am deciding between the D50 and the D80 and choosing a lens to go with

 

[Chris PC]

Took a look at the D50 and the 18-70. Looks good for a start. Will decide on either of the D80 or D50 and the 18-70. I'm sure it's a good lens to start with.

 

[Chris PC]

Picked up the following:

Used D50 with only minor wear/cracking on the rubber eye-peice.
Nikon 18-70mm f/3.5-4.5G ED-IF AF-S DX Nikkor.
Nikon 70-300mm f/4.5-5.6G IF-ED AF-S VR Nikkor.

I figure I'll play with this setup until I can acheive the photo's I hope for and if I need a better body in the future, a D80 or D200 or whatever may replace them in the next few years will be my next step. In the meantime, I'll see how the len's work. Should be fun

 

[Chris PC]

I notice that many people find no use for film SLR once they go with digital SLR. Any thoughts on that and roughly what my kit would be worth used?

Nikon FE
Nikor 50 mm 1.8
Sigma mini-wide II 28 mm
Sigma DL Zoom 75-300 mm

thanks,

 

[ManW_TheUncool]

So did you get that D50 kit?

RE: your old film SLR kit, you're probably better off just holding on to them than try to sell them at this point unless you don't have space for them. You never know. Maybe you'll find use for them some time in the future. OTOH, maybe you can donate them to some charity for a tax deduction, or maybe just give them to a niece or nephew who might be interested in learning photography and might need a basic full manual film kit to start off.

_Man_

 

[Chris PC]

Yep, I got the used D50 with only minor wear/cracking on the rubber eye-peice, Nikon 18-70mm f/3.5-4.5G ED-IF AF-S DX Nikkor, Nikon 70-300mm f/4.5-5.6G IF-ED AF-S VR Nikkor. I guess at first I just listed them, but I've since edited the above post so it makes more sense now.

I just dont know if I will have the need for film slr. Perhaps I will compare the two for a while. It's weird having two kits, including the 3 lens' with the film slr. It would be nice to slim down my setup to the DSLR and the P & S digital and eliminate the film slr, but perhaps I will wait a bit.

So far it's working ok. I am capturing in the biggest fine JPEG's I can. I forgot that I didn't get software with the camera, nor a owners manual since it was used. Raw or NEF photo's or whatever they are called are not usable or viewable on my PC and I have a photoshop program from 2002. I will download a manual and capture using the best JPEG settings for now.

Although the sharpness of the photo's is starting out ok, I can tell that I would appreciate the increased MP of the D80/D200 camera's for shot's of birds etc where I want to get a closer shot of a far away bird etc. At least it would seem to make sense that way.

It's working ok, but of course, I am already thinking about the D80/D200 even though I don't "need" them quite yet. The camera performs as I was hoping, ISO and WB are all I change in P mode and I do my best to focus and play around. I'll figure out the fully manual route next. I was never a totally manual film SLR user yet either. I was thinking that if I hold on to this camera for a while and do my best with it and learn to make it sing, then by the time the urge for better controls and more MP comes, perhaps there will be an updated D200 (maybe with SD cards too)... and then I can look at that. That is if I survive without upgrading to the D80 in the next little while.

If anybody has any hints for the D50 or links, let em' rip and I'll learn the camera's characteristics and how to make the most of it for now

 

[ManW_TheUncool]

Chris,

You can download the free, but no longer updated, Nikon View for basic RAW conversion (and photo file management and transfer) at Nikon's own site:

http://support.nikontech.com/cgi-bin...php?p_faqid=61

Don't bother w/ the newer PictureProject as it's worse than NV by all accounts -- I never bothered as I didn't want to have it sitting on my computer nor wish to deal w/ potential problems w/ uninstalling it afterward.

I use NV on my laptop, but actually use Nikon Capture itself on my desktop PC when I really want to do more w/ the RAW files. Still, NV is much better than nothing and will already give you more latitude w/ the camera than merely sticking w/ JPEGs. It's really pretty good software considering it's free. When you're ready to move up to something better, there will be many more choices, including one of the Photoshop CS versions using Adobe's RAW converter plug-in. Personally, I (and many others) feel Nikon's own software is better at converting Nikon's RAW files though it can be rather slow compared to Adobe's RAW converter -- I also don't like how Adobe's RAW converter works in general, especially since it requires your own trial-and-error calibration to even get reasonable results unless you go w/ the point-and-click WB approach that most people end up using. It's too bad Nikon's RAW converter plug-in for PS CS is so limiting or I'd use that inside PS CS instead.

RE: general info and tips for the D50, you might want to check this link:

http://www.pbase.com/dlcmh/nikond50

For some basics on postprocessing/editing w/ PS, try this link:

http://epaperpress.com/psphoto/

One thing you should note though about DSLRs is that images are generally less "cooked" straight from camera than w/ compact digicams. Most compacts tend to heavily process the images (by default) so that they're ready for presentation for mass consumption. With DSLRs, you usually need to do some extra bit of postprocessing or must bump up the various in-camera settings to get similarly processed JPEGs. The D50 is a bit more consumer oriented in this regard than most other higher end DSLRs, but it could still use some help w/ the settings, if you want ready-to-use JPEGs. Bump up the sharpening a good bit and maybe also the contrast (aka tone compensation) and saturation to some extent in that case.

And do let us know if you need more help.

_Man_

 

[Chris PC]

Sweet. Thanks a bunch. I'll check all those links. I hope to be able to print raw images somehow too. I guess I'll need to convert them?

 

[Chris PC]

Would it make a lot of sense to keep a D50 until a replacement for the D80 or D200 comes out which has less noise and is sharper than the D50? It seems to me that while the D80 and D200 have nice features and performance, the D50 has very good higher ISO levell noise (lower noise) and is no less sharp than the D80 and D200... apart from increase in pixel count. The D70 and D70s are good camera's too, but I think starting from scratch the D50 was an excellent choice

How do most people use the D50? If you have hints and suggestions on modes and different features, let me know.

 

[ManW_TheUncool]

Chris,

Noise level is pretty comparable across all those cameras when you compare the RAW files. The D50 JPEGs showed lower noise than D70 partly because of in-camera noise reduction that D70 did not have -- and the D70 JPEG engine wasn't too good in general either. The D80 and D200 may appear to have slightly higher noise (in RAW), but if you resize the results to 6MP for comparison w/ the D50, noise become very comparable and maybe slightly better. IOW, in actual practice for real world use, noise level is actually not worse. And if you want to increase in-camera NR (though this will cost you some detail loss), the D80 and D200 offer in-camera options for that.

Still, yeah, if what you want is better noise performance native to the sensor/RAW files, you won't find that in the D80 or D200. Significant performance increase in this area will likely require moving up to a camera w/ bigger sensor. That's partly why a lot of people want to see Nikon come out w/ full frame bodies.

Anyway, if high ISO noise performance is important to you, you'll probably want to check out the Auto ISO feature on the D50. Unlike the higher end models, the D50 only offers full stop steps for ISO settings unless you use its Auto ISO feature. With Auto ISO on, the D50 can choose in-between ISO steps like 1000 and 1250 rather than going to the next full step like 1600. What I'd often do in indoor/low light situations is start out in M mode w/ aperture and shutter speed dialed in and Auto ISO on so that the meter would determine ISO for me. However, since the D50 does not allow manual setting of those in-between ISOs, you'd have to stick w/ Auto ISO if you want to be able to use them to minimize noise.

Also, if you like shooting for in-camera JPEGs instead of RAW, the D50 (like all Nikon DSLRs) has a custom tone compensation feature that lets you use your own tone curve instead of the manufacturer choices. Some people like to load curves that produce a provia or velvia look for instance. Even if you shoot RAW, if you want to be able to apply the custom tone curve as part of RAW processing, you'd still need to shoot w/ the curve loaded in camera (though there is some inexpensive 3rd party software like Curve Surgery that can insert the curve into the RAW file post-shoot). Unfortunately, you can only load the curve into camera using Nikon Capture (and presumably the newer NX), not Nikon View. I used to use this feature on the D70 because the D70's default tone curve resulted in rather dark midtones (maybe 1/3-1/2 stop lower than most like), but this doesn't seem to be an issue on most other Nikon bodies. It's a feature that you may want to play w/ a little bit if/when you get Nikon Capture (or NX) or the 3rd party software I mentioned.

And if increased storage is not a problem to you, you may want to try shooting RAW+JPEG so you can have the RAW files for when you need that extra bit of IQ and the basic quality JPEGs for quick prints or quick resize for web presentation.

Finally, if IQ is of utmost importance to you, you may eventually want to check out some lesser known RAW converters created by Nikon shooters who aren't completely satisfied w/ what's already available. RAWMagick is one of these that seems to produce results that are noticeably better than Nikon's own software, particularly when some extra "massaging" of the data is needed -- RAWMagick is created by the same folks who created Curve Surgery. FYI, I actually bought RAWMagick Lite when it was still in beta (as part of their promo deal w/ Curve Therapy and Curve Surgery), but never got around to using it.

_Man_

 

[Chris PC]

Thanks. Should I lock the mirror each time I change the lens from 18-70 to 70-300 and back? Or does it lock the mirror up? ... which is the opposite of what I'd want to do when changing lens?

So far so good. I have to review and re-start my SLR aperture and shutter speed lessons and get back to photo taking for the purpose of learning what different settings do. I see the settings for contrast and saturation in the camera, but for now I'll just work at it RAW and go with the normal settings to start.

 

[ManW_TheUncool]

You should only use the mirror lockup function when you need to clean the sensor, not when you change lenses. Also, you should make sure there's plenty of battery power (or have the camera plugged in for A/C power to be safe) before using this function.

FYI, this is also *not* the same mirror lockup function people normally talk about for use when shooting on tripod (to prevent mirror slap vibrations from impacting the shot particularly at slow shutter speeds and/or very long focal lengths). For that function, you'll need to upgrade to the D200 or higher (though the D80 has a mirror "pre-fire" function that should work fairly well for this also).

_Man_

 

[Chris PC]

Ok, gotcha.

 

[Chad A Wright]

I know I'm late to the thread, but congratulations on the new D50. Now the long journey to new-camera-induced poverty begins.

I started with a D70s. I used it extensively along with a Canon Digital Rebel before purchasing. As someone said before, the D70 just felt right. It was a little heavier and bigger. The controls were also much easier to use. I've used it for almost two years now and just last week bought a D200.

The D50 will do great for you now, but at some point you'll begin to push the edge of it's abilities and really notice the limitations. I ran into that a lot with the D70's buffer. It could only shoot four frames (in RAW mode) before it had to wait and write them to the card. This was really annoying when shooting fast action. The new D200 will shoot something like 21 RAW shots before filling up the buffer. I have yet to hit that limit and I just finished a wedding with it.

I have:
D200
D70s
18-70MM F3.5-5.6 (D70 Kit lens that is actually not bad)
50MM F1.8 (I love this lens, perfect for portraits. And only $100.)
80-200MM F2.8 (A great long lens. Perfect for fast action and affordable)
SB-800 Flash (Great flash. About to buy another one)

I'm also going to get the 17-55 2.8 lens as soon as I can find one. Everyone seems to be sold out. Let me know if you have any Nikon related questions.

 

[Rob Gillespie]

Another way to get raw & jpg files is to run the NEFs through Nikon View (free). It will convert the files to JPG with all the in-camera settings intact so you end up with the same result but with more space left on your card.