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Don't they make scary movies anymore??? (1 Viewer)

Matt Stone

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Yah, but when you "thought it was great," there was still a monster there...it just wasn't visible. I believe that is precisely the fear of the unknown that Robert is refereing too.

BTW, Tino...don't take away films like May, Cabin Fever, TCM 2003 just because you don't like them. I think they show a return to classic 70s~ish guerilla film-making horror that should replace the post-Scream, self-referential stuff. As far as scariness is concerned, I may agree with you, though. Certainly May and Cabin Fever fall in different categories than typical "scare" flicks (drama and horror-comedy respectively), but after watching TCM 2003 again last night, I found it pretty effective.
 

Tino

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That's the thing Matt, you think they are a return to classic horror film making, and I think they're not. I believe they have actually set back the genre by being so amateurishly bad.

But hey, that's my subjective take. Your horror mileage will vary.;)
 

RobertR

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Seeing dead people was shown, and we knew they were really dead. If the entire movie had consisted of the kid (or some college students) yammering about the "legend of seeing dead people", it wouldn't have been scary.
 

JohnRice

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Robert (and Matt) I'm pretty sure I've been getting your point and I probably just haven't been expressing myself very well. I just wonder why there needs to be an actual monster. So often we are wrapped up in the need for a payoff at the end of a movie. Particularly the big, dramatic "Wow" or twist. Couldn't part of horror be the fear of something that turns out not to even be there?

As far as May, TCM 2003 and Cabin Fever go, I have to also disagree that they are awful. I didn't care for CF, but that is just because that type of horror doesn't appeal to me and never has. I did appreciate the silliness at times, but that wasn't enough to sway me.

I was surprised by how much I enjoyed the visual style of TCM 2003. I actually thought it was exceptionally well done. The surreal and often outright artificial way it was photographed was completely engrossing to me. I was also amused by the overdrawn Texas hicks. Also, I have to admit, I thoroughly enjoyed looking at Jessica Biel the whole time. The funny thing is, aside from Biel, or maybe in addition to her, the very things I liked about TCM are probably the same things the TCM purists dislike about it. Let it stand on it's own 2 feet. It's not a replacement for the original, but just a revisiting.

As far as May goes, I really don't see it so much as a horror as a dark comedy and it is very successful as that. Think of it as a comedy about a woman who has basically gone insane. Give the trailer a look, It is even more obvious from that how it is played for humor. If I have a favorite genre it would be dark comedies, so May had an unfair advantage for me. It is also exceptionally well done, particularly considering it had virtually no budget.
 

Dome Vongvises

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Being scared of the unknown doesn't work so well in horror movies, for me at least. Terror of the unknown in real life is another matter. Becoming a parent for the first time (not me, but I can empathize), waiting for test scores that will determine the rest of your life, being beside a loved one while they lay in bed dying or waiting for surgery. That's terrifying.

The unknown is a great device in horror for building suspense. Atmosphere, mood, setting, and situations can heavily work in a filmmaker's favor. But unless there's some sort of payoff (which I think RobertR is getting at), the effect starts to wear thin. Even the mentioned Session 9 had a great payoff.
 

RobertR

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Not to me. It then becomes nothing more than a psychological study, and the results can range from amusing to sympathetic to merely interesting to annoying (as in "will you please knock it off and get some therapy already?").

But not scary.
 

Dome Vongvises

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For myself, that's annoying as hell. It's a kneejerk reaction that quits working after a while once you rationalize there's nothing to be afraid of. I can't stand people (real life or on the page) that freak out for no apparent reason. That's why I'm happy as a clam when they're one of the people killed in a horror film.

People like Eleanor from The Haunting or that girl from Jason X who started to cry and whine and tried to get away on the ship.

But I did grow up living in a house with creaking floor boards, winds whisping through the trees, scratches inside the wall, and living a forest away from a cemetary. I'm living in an apartment right now with booming noises and scratches in the ceiling. I guess I'm made of sterner stuff than some people here. :p)
 

RobertR

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With apologies to Jack Briggs (who admires the film a lot), I agree with you. That's a good example of what I'm talking about. There is no objectively real horror in the film.
 

JohnRice

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So, if you see a movie that is terrifying for 90 minutes, but it turns out to actually be nothing, you go back in time and change the fact that you had actually been scared for 90 minutes? :p)


BTW, I think annoying characters who panic at a moments notice is a completely different thing.
 

RobertR

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I'd never wait 90 minutes for a movie to show me what it is I'm supposed to be scared of. :)
 

richardWI

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I think it's an age thing. I must have been 24 when Blair Witch came out and was unable to get scared of a pile of rocks. If I was younger I probably would have bought the gags more readily. Perhaps if the people who got scared by BW mentioned how old they were when they saw it, it would be revealing. This isn't to make fun of them, a lot of movies freaked me out when I was younger that might not now: The Serpent and the Rainbow had me almost paralyzed with fear and shock. The whole idea behind it really tapped into a primal fear. If I saw it for the first time at my current age it might not have as much impact.
 

richardWI

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May was wretched. Are we suppose to cheer for the mentally disturbed main character? Laugh at her because she's so messed up? Sympathize with her? She wasn't likeable by any stretch but she wasn't a good enough villain either. Are we supoposed to be scared of her? Were you? We're never given a reason to care about what will happen to her, or her friends. She flipped out over the smallest things and her character had absolutely no shading at all.
 

Justin_S

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**Blair Witch & Session 9 SPOILERS AHEAD**

For me, the fact that we never see the villain at all is what makes it so effective. I know something is there in Blair Witch because of the noises, the assault on the tent, the disappearance of Josh, and the finding of his tongue and teeth. If it showed me the witch or whoever was doing it, the film would be nowhere near as effective.

Session 9 is a fantastic and very creepy new classic in my eyes. To me, what is so creepy in the film is the atmosphere of Danvers and the bizarre multiple personality sessions. Danvers is a very creepy place, and being in it would be creepy enough, but being stalked in it would be truly terrifying. The film is also full to the brim with the feeling of dread, and the excellent score only reinforces that feeling. When we find out that Gordon is the killer, its still very disturbing and rather creepy, but not as scary as it was when we didn't know the killer. Of course, the fact that he seems to be possessed by this Simon entity throws it right back into scary territory though, at least for me.

By the way, I'm sure many of you already know this, but I'm another big supporter of May, TCM 2003, and especially Cabin Fever. None are scary in my opinion, but all are great on many other levels.


That is a very big assumption, and I'm sure its not right in many cases. One case I'm sure of is mine. I've been addicted to horror ever since I first saw a horror film at the age of 4. My parents allowed me to rent any horror film I wanted too, as they realized I could handle them. Most of the horror films that have scared me, I have seen at an older age. Also, whenever I rewatch them, they still have the same effect on me to this date.
 

Dome Vongvises

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It's called sympathy (or empathy, I get the two mixed up sometimes). The thing with May is she lacks good social nurturing. Her behavior in the film was completely believable. It's a case of she didn't know any better.

You can see it at the cellular level of organisms (e.g. the human immune system). You have T-Cells that go through selection in order to properly grow, differentiate, and mature. Negative selection ensures the T-Cells directed against your body are gotten rid of (hence it's a tragedy when you have an autoimmune disease).

People, like cells, need signals to properly grow. May didn't get hers so it's understandble (and inevitable) the way she acts. Of course, unlike some certain films I can think of, this sort of behavior involves us in some way, as supposed to some intellectualy distancing.

However, the one thing that does bother me is how she kisses. Everybody knows that one.

RE: BWP

When I saw BWP, I thought it was one of the best horror movies I've ever seen. When it came to DVD, it started to grow worse in my eyes.

One of the things that was magnificent about BWP is the documentary feel. Cinema veritè was put to great use in the first half of the film. You could belive that the events took place. Unfortunately, the film went downhill with its second half very quickly. It betrayed its documentary feel by using hokey reasoning for continuing to film. Living through a different reality? Give me a break. The rise of reality T.V. has seriously compounded this problem. Afterwards, you're left with a horror movie filled with some awful clichès (e.g. stupdity leads to more trouble).

That's the fine line horror walks. It's a genre to be had fun with, but the minute the film takes itself seriously, its really hard to hold it together.
 

Tino

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JustinS

Are there any horror films that you don't love? Seriously. It seems as though you love anything remotely "horror" like. I'd really love some perspective.;)
 

JohnRice

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Justin, you bad, bad, oh so very bad boy!!! :D


[c]Spoilers!![/c]



Not everyone (including me) has seen Blair Witch and many more people (not including me) have never seen Session 9. You're not the first person in this thread to say too much without spoilers.



Regarding Session 9, I think you point out one of the most effective arguments for...there not needing to be anything there to be scary and that is the audio tapes. There is absolutely no threat from those tapes. They were made decades earlier and present no threat whatsoever to the viewer or the characters in the movie. Still, they are absolutely crucial to the fear that is created in the movie. Can you imagine how dull the movie would have been without them?

As far as the age thing, I also tend to disagree. How I see it is younger people tend to be more open minded and certainly more gullible. Hopefully the gullibility goes away with age, but unfortunately the open mindedness usually does as well. When I see statements like the one above, I can't help but get the feeling that they are intended to show how sophisticated the person is. How they are too intelligent to be duped by this stuff. I was there myself, so don't get defensive and jump all over me. What I think now is that it is just another wall. These people are so afraid to show something that might be construed as a weakness or lack of intelligence, they are unwilling to let themselves be absorbed by the environment of the movie.

As far as May goes, you are absolutely right. It does not tell you what to think of her or how to react.


let the hate roll in. ;)


For once though, Justin and I are on the same page. :p)
 

Matt Stone

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Great post, Dome. I agree with your thoughts on May and BWP 100%.

And everybody already knows that Justin has every horror film ever made in his top 5 :D
 

Matthew_Millheiser

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My two favorite movies that scare the mud right out of me are The Shining and Angel Heart. Kubrick and Parker were not "scary movie directors", but directed two masterpieces. I think it's the way they craftily raised the suspense level while sneaking in a growing but pulpable sense of terror. Brilliant, the both of them. And to think that neither starred Betty White...!
 

Justin_S

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Heh, sorry about the spoilers. Putting a warning up completely slipped my mind. I'll edit one in. Glad to see we are actually in agreeance for a change, John. :D

Tino, there actually are several horror films that I don't like, as hard to believe as that may be. ;) I try and focus more on the ones I do like, so that would probably be one reason people may think that.
 

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