Dolby Atmos in the Home Theater, AVRs, and Separate (1 Viewer)

[FoxyMulder]

I think the problem is that some of these early receivers don't have pre-outs or enough upgrade flexibility so it will be impossible to gradually increase the speakers, some of them don't even give you 4 ceiling speaker options, just two, not good enough, you will need to buy new equipment, that doesn't get a pass from me.

I'd rather wait and see it mature, first generation is not for me, too expensive, prices need to drop and we need to see manufacturers producing ceiling speakers to timbre match the ones we all already own otherwise it won't sound right and that's another expense.

 

[andySu]

Very true. Andy I think you are also conflating Cinema and Home Cinema. The size of the room, level of acoustic absorption etc make commercial cinemas much harder to envelope the listener. At home and from early reports of folks who have heard Atmos in smaller rooms, it's way better at home than in the theater. Please wait until you hear it to pass judgment.

Dave, skip the acoustics worry about that last that be done at cheap cost if you one puts their mind to it?

Scale down the cinema to the average USA home that will be at most 25 feet long by 18/20 feet wide with ceiling height of maybe 8 (if its typical basement) or if living room height about 10/12 feet?

UK home average well I have lived in some homes parents, with length/width at 20 by 20 ceiling height about 12 feet.

Uncommon UK rooms length 18 feet, width about 12/13 feet, ceiling about 8 feet.

My room about 15 feet long, width varies 11 feet few inches, due to I have to work off from the chimney breast 9 feet wide, ceiling height 7 feet 8 inches. Tiny.

If I was fitting the room out with JBL 8330 surrounds I'd soon run out of space on the walls not mention FACT I'd be bumping my head into one of them if I was going out the living room door, due to it OVERHANGING! You seen the size of those surrounds? In a Large cinema, they look tiny compared to the stage channels.

Just scale down the size of the speakers that will be used for the surrounds in the room and you can fit clusters of them. You can have extra rows of seats that will be about, 2 meters or so away from the front of the screen. And not that is not really close to the projection screen at all. Ever gone into small cinema these "digital boothless types" that are so small the front seating is only about 8 feet or so away from the front of the screen.

Yet even those screens have surrounds maybe about size of large bookshelf surround.

I've had up least 3 surrounds running on side walls in the past and I can push that to 4 or even 8 on each side wall. Its not a big deal. Heck I can even take it to 12 its just scaling it all down.

One thing is you'd never get that large cinema look simply because room isn't Large.Original; Empire LSq, added in more of the 8340 surrounds to the side walls only that brought them in closer to the front of the screen. The ones at the back side of the cinema was adjusted and angled toed in.

My JBL control 1, have ball-mounting bracket so I can angle to any position. Versatile and cheap cost. But still when you look at the final cost it all, it would be in the hundreds and then goes into the thousands, I kidd you not.

Fact is if we're going to step forwards with new format it should be THE SAME. Let us worry about how many speakers we like to put in the room.

I still disagree with the folks that listened to the watered-down-Atmos. And who are they? Just someone who reviews it for Hi-Fi home theater ma? Really seems like they been brainwashed and now they slowly got to you as well.

Come on man, think!

In a few years time they'll ether come out with step up version with BELOW STEREO SURROUND. Oh, here we go again everyone, got sell it to buy a new model to keep manufacturers in pocket.

I'm gonna keep on saying/ranting it till I'm blue in the face. We need more channels. Atmos is like CB radio that doesn't even have straight AM 40 channels. Its like CB with only blocks of 34 channels. 64 channels isn't enough as that is mostly wasted on surrounds.

The stage channels needs to evolve. 9 at the minimum. You scale down the speaker size to compact PA type as they can take some, welly. Power handling I mean.

I want to listen to ALIENS (1986) with Atmos with 9 screen fronts and hear that inner-door open when the drop-ship is lowered down. The doors open near below the screen if you watch a film on these HUGE flat screens I mean come, on how can you miss that!

I hear the sound and it sounds like the doors are opening some 5 feet above in the room. Rather than I should be looking downwards and keeping my eyes still on the screen.

Anyway I'm done with this for now, you try and unravel what I said. Or go and watch ALIENS theatrical now. Watch it from the POV angle and if you can't see that?

 

[andySu]

I think the problem is that some of these early receivers don't have pre-outs or enough upgrade flexibility so it will be impossible to gradually increase the speakers, some of them don't even give you 4 ceiling speaker options, just two, not good enough, you will need to buy new equipment, that doesn't get a pass from me.

I'd rather wait and see it mature, first generation is not for me, too expensive, prices need to drop and we need to see manufacturers producing ceiling speakers to timbre match the ones we all already own otherwise it won't sound right and that's another expense.

Not a big deal all AVR should be fitted with D-25 connectors with RCA phone or XLR lead ends. They need to scale the price down to Hot Cake price £150.00 for the whole package and they'll soon sell out. Either way, this will end up on ebay, in 15 to 20 so years time for a few hundred, like the Sony SDDS, Dolby CP500, CP200, all now sell for peanuts on ebay, and those processors would cost new $15.000.00 Other models CP50, 55 65 45, you'd be looking at $4.5 grand up 6.5 grand. CP650 has dropped in price a bit now I don't often see it $3 grand I seen and CP750 last I saw as they show up now and then, £1.800.00. Heck there;s a CP50 on ebay for £29.00 pounds Mind you, its got most of the Cat cards pull out of it, only has the PSU and EQ cards. A few rare SDDS DFP-D2000 thou no use for home, you'd need the DFP-D3000, but the 2000, selling from £47 - £59 and £148 pounds,

http://www.dolby.com/uploadedFiles/Assets/US/Doc/Professional/DolbyAtmos_CP850_brochure_web.pdf

 

[andySu]

Gene and Hugo's humor is checking me up. best morning laugh I had all week.

 

[DanH1972]

Gene and Hugo's humor is checking me up. best morning laugh I had all week.

This enable speaker sat on the speaker really does sound like a load of bollocks and sheer waste of time. Not there idea, Onyko and Pioneer's.

I tried facing my centre channel on its back and firing the sound upwards. It doesn't work, It sounds defused muffled it wasn't bouncing a solid frequency of sound being mirrored off the ceiling to my ears. It sounded like it was still in front on the stage.

I guess Atmos would work outdoors with the speakers aimed up at the sky.

FIT THE SPEAKERS ANY TO THE CEILING! ITS EASY!

You seem to be a kind of glass is half empty kind of guy.

 

[andySu]

The first video was also funny when Gene, talks about "cybertron".

 

[Robert Crawford]

Just a general warning to those posting in this thread. The HTF Administrative Staff has taken a deep interest in this thread not only because of Dolby Atmos, but also, the posting behavior of certain members in this thread. We're not going to put up with disrespectful comments from any member nor any general disruption in this valuable thread. If you can't adhere to our posting standards nor the warnings that have been posted here then you will force us to use other disciplinary actions to bring order to this thread. If you have a question regarding our warnings then PM one of the forum's moderators.

 

[Sam Posten]

I'll have more to add when I get back from vacation but have a few things to post ASAP after visiting Dolby NYC yesterday:- the demo was impressive but overshadowed by the cinema demo. I have seen 8 Atmos enabled films in the theater and will continue to do so, Atmos or IMAX are the only way to get me out of the house.- I suspect Dolby trimmed down the LFE channel to highlight the Atmos height effect. This is a mistake and they should stop if I am right. If I am wrong they need to calibrate their LFE cause it's too low and makes the overall demo scene flat.- we asked about floor level (aka below surround) effects for puddles and splashes. They did not have anything much to say except it could happen but much more data is expected to be above the listener.- we asked about the challenges inherent in the new channels (more lines, fishing lines to add to existing set ups, reversed phase issues) and they believe this is solved by white papers, customer/retailer education and Audessey.- I said that's great but Denon hasn't announced receivers with Atmos. Apparently they did over the weekend so yay!- I disagree with AndySu over the need for more physical channels. Virtual channels are the way to go no matter what dimension of sound you want to reproduce. Let the receiver handle it and scale it with smart processing.- Any Blu that can fully Bitstream Dolby HD should be good to go with no firmware upgrades, so unless you are still using a Fat PS3 you don't need to upgrade that, tho new receiver and speakers are obvious musts.- I wish I was going to CEDIA, should be a good time and an info deluge.- I asked if they considered waiting till a UHD physical disk format was ready to go and they demurred saying they complement UHD and enhance current Blu so that's their go forward start.I took a bunch of pics, those will have to wait till Monday.I expect to upgrade to a full Atmos suite from current 5.1 to 7.1.4, we'll see tho. Will see what Paradigm announces on this front as I want to match as best I can. I will go ceiling mount which isn't gonna be easy or cheap.

 

[Sam Posten]

Also they told us early in the day that Atmos speakers perform smart processing. I asked how they get the power to do that and they backtracked and said it was simply passive filtering.Regarding the up firing speakers they fully admit it shouldn't work but it does. Using these speakers IS a viable strategy and isn't really second class, but I think most enthusiasts will want to go with at least 4 real ceiling mounted speakers. I am/will. But for the average consumer it will work and will blow their minds. I might go this route withe the secondary theaters I my bedroom and office, the Pioneer Andrew Jones line certainly has me intrigued for that!

 

[Sam Posten]

Ugh the Denon line I buy is only 7.1.2, to go to 7.1.4 requires their top of the line http://www.engadget.com/2014/07/23/denon-dolby-atmos-receivers/This doesn't really track with Dolby's plan for making this a wide consumer tech...

 

[schan1269]

Denon doesn't have a power supply capable of keeping up with 11 channels till then.Hell, I'm not convinced the Onk 3030 does either. And it chews power like a vacuum.For 11 AVR ran channels it is going to take 10a>.The 3030 pulls 10.1 for 11 channels.The 5200 pulls 6.1 for 9.External amps are going to be needed, unless you buy 95db and higher efficiency speakers.

 

[Sam Posten]

At reference or peak?

 

[schan1269]

In my theater, that currently uses BIC V, a movie like Underworld: Awakening with 9.1(height) it takes everything the NR1008 has. Yes, the power meter has shown it has reached its max.The 1008 pulls 8.8.That is reference BD 85-105db listening.1.3 amps more might not cut it, for me. But, I also intend to run the BIC DV52 set at 60hz. The DV52 is less efficient than the V62 I use now.However. I have yet to factor in the 10 feet the V62 are, versus the 5 and 9 feet(and reverse for 3rd row) for the DV52.

 

[Ronald Epstein]

Regarding the up firing speakers they fully admit it shouldn't work but it does. Using these speakers IS a viable strategy and isn't really second class, but I think most enthusiasts will want to go with at least 4 real ceiling mounted speakers.

I found the up firing speakers to be disappointing.

Hearing the demo between ceiling and upfiring speakers, the entire room was
clearly able to tell the difference between the two.

I never got the impression that sound was coming from above me when the upfiring
speakers were in use. So, in my opinion, I think using upfiring speakers is a huge
compromise -- and perhaps -- an investment you may not wish to make.

That being said, I think anyone going the route of ceiling speakers is going to
be tremendously happy with the Atmos technology in their home.

I will write more at the end of the upcoming weekend.

 

[DanH1972]

Let's all refrain from psycho-analyzing or impugning the mental state of fellow members, and stay on topic of Atmos at home.This is a moderator warning, etc.

For my part, I am sorry for my blunt statement to Andy. I'll have to chalk it up to venting. I shouldn't let my frustration over a fellow member's comments stop me from filtering my comments.

I will only say this: I hope he and other members will keep an open mind about this and other technology. I will be attending some demos next month and I will reserve judgement until then. I'm very enthusiastic, but it may get tempered (as in Mr. Epstein's comments about the upward firing speakers) when I hear consumer Atmos for myself.

We'll see. I'll definitely add my $.02 in September.

 

[Dave Moritz]

I do not see any way that pointing speakers at the ceiling to bounce the sound would work very well. There is no way you can bounce sound off the ceiling and or walls and have it work the way they claim it will work. Not only that, when you bounce sound you not only defuse the sound but you introduce distortion as well. I how ever can not wait to hear demo's so I can decide if Atmos is something I want to invest in or not. To be honest I have yet to hear Atmos in the theater but it sounds like a great idea. If it adds alot to the realisim of the movie and sounds great then it will be added to the upgrade list, however if I am not that impress the idea will be kicked to the curb! I have no problem sticking with the current 7.1 SC-05 that I am currently using, I might try to turn it into a pre/pro and add amplifiers later on down the road if I do not add Atmos to the HT mix.

 

[Josh Steinberg]

As someone living in a rental apartment (as opposed to a condo or home I own), drilling holes into the ceiling and mounting speakers is pretty much a big no-no for me. However, speakers that pointed at the ceiling I could do.

I don't think I'll be upgrading to Atmos soon regardless, but for any potential future upgrades, I like the idea of being able to get some of that effect without the kind of installations that ceiling speakers would take. (I just got my first 5.1 system and I'm very happy with that, but if I ever decided to go up to 7.1, it would be worth at least looking into Atmos at the same time.) I'd definitely love to hear a demo of that type of speaker to see how it actually sounds in action.

I just like the idea that the Dolby people understand that hanging or installing ceiling speakers might not be possible for all users, but are still working on a version of the technology that provides for a similar experience without that. If I was starting from scratch and building a room it would be one thing, but I like that they're also still thinking about people who can't do that for whatever reason.

 

[DanH1972]

I do not see any way that pointing speakers at the ceiling to bounce the sound would work very well. There is no way you can bounce sound off the ceiling and or walls and have it work the way they claim it will work. Not only that, when you bounce sound you not only defuse the sound but you introduce distortion as well. I how ever can not wait to hear demo's so I can decide if Atmos is something I want to invest in or not. To be honest I have yet to hear Atmos in the theater but it sounds like a great idea. If it adds alot to the realisim of the movie and sounds great then it will be added to the upgrade list, however if I am not that impress the idea will be kicked to the curb! I have no problem sticking with the current 7.1 SC-05 that I am currently using, I might try to turn it into a pre/pro and add amplifiers later on down the road if I do not add Atmos to the HT mix.

As one who has heard Atmos at the cinema... when mixed well it can be astoundingly good and far beyond anything 7.1 channel tracks can do. It all boils down to how well that translates over to the home version.

 

[Dr Griffin]

I'd rather spend £899.00 on cat food then a new AVR with Dolby Atmos.

I don't see a DOLBY ATMOS PLUS-II happening in a few weeks. That is 9 screen or 15 screen fronts behind behind the screen and below stereo surround and corner surrounds above and below on side walls and rear wall.

It will be sheer waste of money.

These are much better.

 

[Dr Griffin]

Yes I do I read the white paper in no less than 2 mins, Still not enough to be a convincing enough to last decades at the overrated high price tag.

34 lol it has no STEREO BELOW SURROUND channels to offer.
It hasn't update the stage channels to be realistic for demanding listeners today. It needs at least 9 screen or at best 15 screen that is.

Upper stage channels LCR or L Le C Re R (same with the middle stage channels.
Below stage channels LCR or L Le C Re R

I watch the film as well as listening and the bad continuity issues I see with relation to sound images needs to be updated for today's now advanced listeners.

Also corner surrounds where wall meets ceiling and same with the floor and back wall.

I've owned CB radios for less money +30 years ago that had more channels even Cobra 148 GTL-DX that had modification done to that went beyond its standard 120 channels to 200 channels for £100.00. Dolby labs is taking the mickey with this.

I'd sooner wait a few years until I see one selling on ebay, for £130.00 £150.00, not paying £899.00. I'd sooner feed the cat and save up and watch all this unfold over the next 24 months.

I've been listening to films for a long time.

Myself (ex projectionist) and another projectionist, who I was chatting with at the MGM screen 1, Bournemouth, 1998, when they had installed Dolby DA20, and when standing at the back of the cinema left side rear or between the 6 sets of split-surrounds mounted to the wall, while watching THE PEACEMAKER (1997) opening titles with the train leaving the station, the camera moves upwards and the train exits off screen at 45 degree angle or underneath the screen and masking area but the sound to both us made no sense at all. We then both commented and agreed it should have "below surround" and that was thinking back in 1998.


I've had overhead height surrounds in my home cinema for over 10 years, big deal.

Also for a cinema to see height surrounds at one cinema, was it only in the USA, We Were Soldiers, big deal.

When working at UCI 25 years ago, all the 10 screens had the EV stage channels and surrounds was mounted to the suspended ceiling, and running cinema was only running 35mm Vic, V with Dolby CP55 and SRA5, and wow it sounded neat and guess that could be called "overhead matrix surround" all arranged in evenly and enveloping. I think the height was about 18 or so feet up.

I've seen another local cinema that had 6 flush mounted and spread around the downstairs Gaumont screen 2, also 4 more surrounds on the side wall and 2 on the back wall. That was great with STAR WARS in Dolby Stereo, December 1977. Now then.

My. personnel opinion I would wait and watch what models come out. Hey the Atmos bluray's ain't gonna grow a pair and legs and run off.

9 screen channels in a home theater? The screen would be flapping in the wind like a flag!