Does anyone here enjoy the films themselves? (1 Viewer)

[Michael Elliott]

This is true to a point but how many of your favorites films have you never seen in a theater? How many of your favorite films did you seen OAR for the first time on DVD? Does that mean you weren't a fan of these films if you first caught them on television or rented the open matte VHS?

If you missed THE FRONT PAGE (Wilder version) in theaters but became a fan of it on VHS, how is not buying the open matte DVD doing any good? You became a fan of the film with it being open matte so you can't enjoy the film anymore unless you see it in a way that you never have before?

If I enjoy a film then I'm going to watch it no matter what. If a favorite film of yours never got a OAR DVD release does that mean you will never watch that favorite film of your again? I personally don't see how any so-called fan could say they won't buy a film just because there aren't enough extras or there isn't a new 5.1 track. Many people love the FRIDAY THE 13TH films yet refuse to own them on DVD because they aren't happy with the extras. I've heard some say they won't buy them because there isn't a 5.1 track.

To me, I don't see how a fan could do this. DVD is great but I do feel it's killed a lot of the movie talk. Yes, we talk DVD here and BRINGING UP BABY might get 100 replies talking about the cut dialogue. However, start a thread on the film in the discussions area and it won't be getting 100 replies. Why is that?

I think part of the problem is that certain people just like to jump on studios for whatever reasons. We got 24 Abbott and Costello films last year yet people were still unhappy. I guess they'd rather the films not been released at all compared to what we got?

I've bought several open matte DVD releases but I would have prefered a widescreen print. However, a "favorite film" of mine isn't going to leave my mind just because I can't see it in widescreen. I grew up watching them open matte, fell in love with them open matte so why boycott the film due to the DVD release?

 

[Mickey Brown]

Don't sweat anything Nicholas. There are people on this forum who associate some kind of personal worth with the size of their DVD collection. It's a typical collectors mentality.

Don't be sorry for asking a legitimate question.

 

[Jim_K]

By not supporting these types of releases.

For example: I passed over the MAR release of Charley Varrick. Love the film but there's no way in Hell I'm going to line the pockets of a studio (ahem.... UNIVERSAL) that's basically dumbing down DVD into VHS standards.

As a "film lover" it's a matter of principle not to support this kind of shit.

 

[Robert Crawford]

Because it's the right thing to do! IMO, any artform needs to be respected by those that own it as well as the people that admire it. We are disrespecting that art when it's not presented in a way that the artist intended when it could've been and therefore, it becomes a problem for all of those that appreciate it.






Crawdaddy

 

[george kaplan]

Michael,

First of all, there is a huge difference between open matte and pan & scan. I don't advocate open matte as opposed to OAR, but I certainly would buy open matte versions of films I loved if that were the only way they were released. It's possible (at least with my setup), to take an open matte dvd and watch it in the correct aspect ratio.

Pan & scan is a different story altogether. There's a big difference between having more picture than your supposed to (that you can get rid of), and not having enough picture (that you can't do anything about).

However, you do bring up an interesting point. Many of the films I love I did get introduced to in non-OAR, or otherwise compromised (edited, etc.). But ignorance is bliss. And when it comes to the films I love, I'm no longer ignorant of these issues. Now, if I know a film isn't in the proper presentation, I can't watch it. Yeah, years ago I watched lots of pan & scan movies on tv and never noticed or even knew about it. But now, if I see a pan & scan movie on tv, it makes me ill.

Bottom line - an incorrect presentation of a film might have been enough to get me to fall in love with it, but once I did fall in love with it I love it too much to ever watch it in a compromised fashion again.

 

[Michael Elliott]

100% correct. The sad thing is that we're the majority and I don't think too many even today knows what OAR is. Everyone I know has a DVD player but if you asked them they couldn't tell you why certain films have black bars while others don't. Hell, I don't think they could tell you why certain films are silent and others are sound.

I know you love the GRUMPY OLD MEN films, which are two open matte titles that I do own. I refused to buy these for several years but when it came clear Warner wasn't going to re-release them anytime soon I finally broke down and bought them. Again, liking the films, there just isn't a way I could never watch these again. Even if I had recorded them off television and told Warner to stick it, we still have an open matte transfer to watch.

Several I've replied to here are huge film fans and their lists in that "Track Your Films" proves that. The problem with me is that I enjoy many smaller films that will simply never be released on DVD so as a film fan, you've got to watch these films any way you can no matter the quality or aspect ratio, cuts or whatever else. Lugosi's DRACULA is going to get a release yet VOODOO MAN and RETURN OF THE APE MAN have never been released and you can only see them via 16mm. I'm sure you've heard me mention Jess Franco and most of his 180+ films will never be released on DVD. Not to mention that many of these films have upwards of 5 versions out there and no one, including Blue Underground, is going to release five versions of a film. With this in mind, in order to view all those Franco films, I must go to other regions and watch an open matte title if necessary because the only other option is to never watch it again. I've watched five Franco films this year in a foreign language without any subs. Not the best way to watch a film but there isn't another option.

In the end, I can watch these films the only way possible or skip the films all together. As a film fan, I've gotta take the film first. We hope for a beautiful princess when it comes to their DVD release but a toad of a release is better than nothing IMO.

 

[Robert Crawford]

If technology didn't allow the film to be properly presented to us at home then I can't fault the studios for disrespecting that art.

 

[Michael Elliott]

I've only seen THE PROFESSIONALS once, open matte (?) on VHS back in the early 90's so when I watch the new DVD it will be my first time seeing it OAR. It's funny but Joe and I have talked about this countless times. I think it's somewhat true that I've never seen the "complete" version of THE PROFESSIONALS since picture info was certainly missing. Although I've seen the film before, will the OAR DVD be the first time I've actually seen the film? I keep track of repeat views and new views so in a way, THE PROFESSIONALS will be a new view thanks to the OAR but in fact, I've already seen the film so it's a repeat.

I'm not sure when OAR hit VHS or why it wasn't used earlier but the sad thing remains that certain films will never get the smallest requested feature, which is OAR. I personally don't think those DEATH WISH films or something like BILLY THE KID VS DRACULA will ever get a OAR release. If I live another 50 years, I can't see myself never watching these films again due to that reason.

I've already got an itch to watch BILLY THE KID VS DRACULA and I just don't think I can wait for a OAR DVD. :frowning:

 

[george kaplan]

Well Michael, I can only say that with 1000 dvds to watch, if OAR of some films I want never come out, and I never get to see them again, so be it. I have tons others to watch instead. And that includes Grumpy Old Men and Grumpier Old Men. Fortunately I have those on laser disc in OAR, and I've burned those onto dvds.

I'd love to buy Snow Dogs, my son would love it, but I won't because it's p&s. If it never comes out so be it.

The same goes for Kindergarten Cop, The Jerk, Gidget, etc. I'll buy these in a heartbeat if they ever come out OAR, but if not, then I'll never see them again.

I'd love to buy Eyes Wide Shut, but won't do so unless it gets released uncut. If they ever restore the music cuts to Wiseguy, I'll buy that. If Kung Fu ever gets released in OAR, I'll buy that.

But in the meantime, I'll just watch a thousand other films instead.

 

[Jon Martin]

But you are also ignoring it that way. Would you rather look at a not perfect reproduction of something, or not look at it at all?

The art should be stronger than the presentation. At least, for films I love, it is for me.

 

[Walter Kittel]

For myself, my ability to overlook flaws in the presentation is directly proportional to my admiration of the title in question; not to be confused with my desire for a great presentation. For example; until Universal or possibly Criterion ( wouldn't that be nice ) releases a better version of Double Indemnity I will continue to enjoy the less than spectacular Image Entertainment DVD release of this film.

With regard to A.R. there are a handful of works for which I have accepted a MAR'd presentation. Having fallen in love with Chariots of Fire in the fall of 1981 it simply would have been inconcievable for me to wait until Feb. 2005 for a letterboxed presentation on a home video format. ( It just wouldn't happen.) I happily upgraded to the new release, but I also had a splendid time viewing the non-OAR versions of this title on VHS, LD, and prior DVD releases despite the problematic compositions on display. And I also derived a great deal of pleasure from Season 1 of Kung Fu and Remo Williams: The Adventure Begins.

On the other hand, I didn't purchase Colossus: The Forbin Project despite only having seen it in 1.33:1 on television and enjoying it immensely, due to my concerns over a P&S presentation. So go figure. (??)

While some titles have been influenced by consumer action or other factors ( Willy Wonka and Castle Keep to name two titles ) there are so many titles that have been released in MAR'd formats I am uncertain how much impact A.R. aware consumers have upon the studios.

- Walter.

 

[Todd Robertson]

Same here! Even though I had seen it on TV as a kid 20 times or more and loved it dearly. Just can't buy the current release:frowning:. But I bought Gator and White Lighting. Talk about "go figure". For me...some films can handle the abuse....some can't. Some I can live without and wait for....some, I can't. It depends on how MY eyes see them. It's not always perfect. Such is life.

 

[Jim_K]

Thanks for your concern but I'll be OK.

I can't believe 8 years into this format that we're debating the merits of OAR on this board.

The other arguments you've brought up before such as boycotting a release because of no bonus material, etc. - I agree with you that it's the film thats important.

Though horrendous video quality will keep me from purchasing a favorite film such as Scarlet Street for example.

To each his own, I guess.

 

[george kaplan]

Me either. I read the latest responses to this thread last night and ended up having a dream that I can only assume was inspired by it.

In the dream, I live in a town with different restaurants. All of them serve different cuisuine and are great. However, there is only 1 Chinese restaurant and it sucks. It has horrible tasting food, and it's not even real Chinese food (it was like some bad tv dinners featuring soy sauce).

In any case, I get into an argument with this guy. We both agree that we love Chinese food, and that this restaurant sucks, and isn't even real Chinese food, and really tastes bad.

I end up saying things like "I love Chinese food, but I'm not going to eat there, I'll wait til this town builds a real Chinese restaurant." (I have no idea why in my dream I couldn't go to another town, but there you have it )

His response was mostly along the lines of " But I love Chinese food, and I'm not going to deprive myself of it. If the only way I can get the Chinese food I love is at that bad restaurant, then I'm eating there. You're the one who's going to suffer by not eating Chinese food."

And this went on and on, and then I woke up.

Another weird thing about this dream - in real life I don't even like Chinese food.

 

[Jerome Grate]

I purchase DVDs for two reasons, for me the content of the film and second for the children. I have to admit, I've made some blind purchases based on the rave of others about picture quality and sound, but 95% of my purchases are based on film content. I also find that if a film I really like has great picture and sound, it really enhances the enjoyment of the film itself. Toy Story 2, The Incredibles Indian Trilogy, Star Wars Trilogy just a list of a few are prime examples. I plan to purchase the Die Hard 5 Star Collection series because I really love the movies and now with an anamorphic transfer and DTS soundtrack, I'm pretty sure I'll be adding this to the A list based on film content enhanced by great picture and sound.

 

[Jon Martin]

I don't think anyone is arguing the merits. Anytime there is an OAR version in the equation, there is no debate.

We are just arguing the merits of OAR or nothing.

And as for me, I'd rather have an edible Gen Tsao's chicken than to not eat it at all. Especially when all you have eaten in the past is that same kind from that same restaurant. There may be better recipes out there, but you can't always have the best and shouldn't deprive yourself of it.

 

[Michael Elliott]

No one is pro-open matte here. Except when it comes to nothing else being available.

1. Warner never releases a certain title to DVD and the only way to see it is on a open matte VHS.

Are people saying I should never watch this film again?

2. I love DEATH WISH 2-5 but the DVDs are open matte.

Again, are people saying I should never watch these films that I love?

If you've seen my track list, you'll notice hundreds of films from 1890-1910. These weren't played in theaters but instead those little boxes you have to crank (don't recall their name at the moment). Is viewing them on a Home Theater breaking some unwritten rule? Should I track down one of those boxes if I want to view these films?

Anywoo, yes we all want OAR but if you can't get it I see no reason to turn your back on a film you love. Most people here went 20+ years having to live with open matte to one of their favorite movies so I see no reason to stop watching it if a greedy studio doesn't think that title will sell a certain number of copies or whatever.

Thanks for mentioning TP being 2.35:1, I wasn't sure. I don't remember too much about the film but I'm looking forward to it.

 

[Nils Luehrmann]

George... that was a great post! Hilarious, accurate, and wonderfully anecdotal. You really should send a copy to Widescreen Review as I have no doubt they would jump at the chance of publishing it!

But I am concerned about the last line...I think Freud would say deep down inside your "Id" despises films, and you've just been fooling yourself all this time. Get help my friend... GET HELP!

 

[george kaplan]

 

[Nate Anderson]

Oh screw Freud. I refuse to take psychiatric advise from a person who had an intense fear of ferns.