Do you plug your precious subwoofer straight into the wall outlet? (1 Viewer)

[Andy_Steb]

For piece of mind, you plug all components in separate surge protectors on dedicated outlets.
If you want to truly protect yourself from lightning, contact Allstate or State Farm. My house was hit, two computers, one monitor, one router, two TVs, one alarm system, one DVD player, one VCR, one Garage door opener, one subwoofer, stainless steel braided hoses were actually welded to the back of washing machine and all the telephones on the entire block were fried.
So you can say I was protected. Check your insurance to see if you have a full replacement policy, or a value of property policy.
If a high current surge has no problem jumping several thousand feet from the sky the earth with no wires, it should have no problem jumping a fraction of a millimeters across your surge protector.
A surge protector to me seems a lot like an extended warranty. Has anyone on this forum received money from the $50,000 guarantee from manufacturers.

 

[Chu Gai]

I'd imagine it would come in at the service panel where the neutral is bonded. One thing I should have added is that it is entirely possible for common and differential surges or transients to exist simultaneously. In part this may depend upon how one makes their measurements.

Andy, I've got nothing against dedicated outlets, but you'd do far better putting in a unit that's located at the breakers or the meter. That's one hell of a horror story and I only hope your insurance company made good and you got great appliances.

BTW George, ham operators have found out much the same as you've stated. Even something that's not plugged in can be damaged which is why it's critical to earth the antenna.

 

[GeorgeJM]

I'd imagine it would come in at the service panel where the neutral is bonded.

Yes, but from there is what is confusing. Let's say we have the following scenario:

Lighting strikes a few houses away right on the overhead power line. The surge comes down the two 120v wires coming into the house at the service panel. The surge hits the service panel bus bars and jumps from the hot side to the neutral bus. BUT... since the neutral is bonded to ground, the neutral is effectively a ground.

The surge continues on through the house on the Hot wire, well, that's easy to understand... it's looking for ground potential. But why would the surge that jumped from the Hot wire to the Neutral wire continue on into the house looking for ground when it could just go (via bonded connection) right to the ground of the service panel?

If a surge jumps from Hot to Neutral and then bypasses the bonded earth and goes into the house, how would a service panel surge protector have helped?

I'm really not trying to be a PITA -- if you have a website that explains this stuff feel free to list it. Thanks

 

[Chu Gai]

I think this might require some sort of computer modeling of the scenario which is certainly beyond my capabilities!
One way to look at it, and I'm not sure if the anology is correct George, is to consider a plumbing scenario where we've got one pipe feeding three other pipes. Depending upon a myriad of factors such as the flow rater, pressure, pulsation (my attempt at mimicking the fact that surges are high frequency events), the water can flow into any one of the pipes in whatever combination. Given that surges are essentially instanteous events, I'd think that minute differences in the three wires might dictate the path(s) that are taken.
I think they're great questions. Now to find an expert in this field who can do a better job of answering than myself!

 

[Chris J Hall]

I don't have much time, but to answer this in a very short way(if needed I will go a little further).

It doesn't take long for your 110v equipment to burn up when 220v is put to it. Whether its grounded or not that is excatly what is on your equipment for the fraction of a second this occurs.


The plumbing analogy was a good start in that there is a massive amount of electicity running down the "pipe" well......that little ground wire isn't exactly rated to run ALL of that power at once, so you have a brief over-run. Since it's so close to those wonderful copper wires that tend to be sorta grounded somewhere in the basement(or at least be close to the earth it usually decides to travel in their direction.

Gotta go....

 

[Chu Gai]

Yes, but consider that would have to be some sort of prolonged overvoltage situation whereas transients are powerful, but very brief events. The testing protocols if I recall have a duration of microseconds.
BTW George, I've also put in a query to the SurgeX people asking for clarification on the 'scope traces.

 

[DaleBesh]

As sophisticated electronics became more prominent in homes, the need for 'spike suppression' became more clear.
For computers, this was expanded to battery back up systems that also provide some spike protection.

At a minimum, I like the Panamax approach of removing power during dangerous line voltage swings, which is not the same as clamping for spike protection (which it also does).

Having moved to a new subdivision, I have no doubt this has 'saved' my equipment on more than one occassion when utility problems resulted in major power disturbances.

One time I used a VOM on the outlet and could see the swings, it was quite alarming I must say.

I quickly shut off the PCs at the UPS and even unplugged the refrigerator. I turned the power to the Panamax off to totally disable the system and protect the protector! It had already instantly removed the components at the onset of the event.

You never know when you will need such protection, even in sunny California.

None of this is superior to whole house protection, but it helps to understand all the possible scenarios as you plan to implement a protection system.

 

[Chu Gai]

I'm not going to say it did or it didn't save your HT system, but one way of getting a handle or feeling on it is to see if any other appliances in your home died during this time period that might've been attributed to surges.

 

[DaleBesh]

On the last event 3 blocks in the subdivision were getting 70 volts on the line, steady, but only 70 volts. This lasted for about 2 hours starting at 5am on a weekday. 2 hours later power was down for 5 hours and restored with everything apparently normal and has been for the last month.
My first clue was how quiet the refrigerator was running.
Scary stuff, huh?
Of course, one never knows if power had been conditioned or removed 'soon enough' to preclude any damage. But if you are not home, having power removed from our precious electronics (if others are in the home and are not 'techie'), is certainly perferable to the alternative.
As I suggested, one needs to consider all possible scenarios if a power event occurs.

 

[Chu Gai]

Enormously disturbing Dale! Did the power company ever give a reason for the 70 volts?

 

[DaleBesh]

Nothing definitive, Chu.
One of the builder's told me the power co. may have underestimated the need and did not provide sufficient reserve. He thought they calculated home completions and people moving in, but not other subcontractors coming in later to do other jobs for the homeowners. If that's the case, sounds like very sloppy planning to me.

On the day of the 70 volts, I had heard it was likely a damaged transformer. May never know. Glad the alarm on my UPS woke me up that morning.

This all happened over a 2 or 3 week span. There had been the major fluctuations during that time. I may just send an inquiry to the utility expressing my concern. I am sure many homeowners did not have the knowledge as how to better protect their electronics, let alone turn off everything.

 

[Yee-Ming]

Interesting thread. My SVS is plugged directly into the mains and I don't have any surge protectors at all anywhere, computer, receiver, nada.

Are they necessary where we have the 3-pin system like the Brits? The third is, after all, ground, which is not present in 2-pin systems. We already have circuit breakers (standard) etc, are these enough?

In past experience, when I lived in a terrace house, I once had a modem get fried by lightning, but nothing else in the house was affected. Presumably the surge came over the phone lines, and not the power line, which in any event would have fried the adaptor, not the modem.

 

[DaleBesh]

The 3rd prong has been a building standard for some time. It is primarily for safety in the event you are touching the metal cover, chassis, etc. of an appliance, etc. when an internal short in the device occurs.
Greater protection is usually provided around water basins and plumbing fixtures (inside kitchens, bathrooms, and outside the house) which is a greater hazard as a good ground is even better at such locations increasing the risk of you becoming a human fuse if you contact the hot side of the AC line. In those locations sensitive and resettable ground fault detectors are installed at nearby outlets. None of these have any real effect on noisy power, and none at all over line voltage fluctuations.

Only an overload, such as a short circuit, would cause the breakers to trip. Again, they have no affect on noise on the line or major fluctuations of voltage at the outlet which can be detrimental to sensitive electronics. Very low AC voltages over a prolonged period can also cause electrical damage to some devices, but primarily is a good indication that incoming line voltage is unstable.

To put your faith in the power company is a gamble, as my experience and those of many others has shown. Line conditioners/suppressors will usually also provide some degree of lightning protection should there be a strike at power lines. They often have TV/cable and phone/modem line protection built-in also which provides some additional security in that regard. Backup battery systems for computers, usually referred to as UPS, also provide some time for you to gently power down your PC in the event of a total power outage. Abrupt power on or power off sequences are never good for sensitive electronics.

 

[Yee-Ming]

Thanks for the clarification Dale.

Are overhead power lines the only way lightning strikes affect/get into the power supply? I ask because this being a city-state, there are probably no overhead power lines at all in the country, everything is buried, and nowadays probably all telephone lines as well (although as a teen I saw overhead telephone lines while hiking in what passes for rural areas here). Although we get plenty of thunderstorms, I've never had anything get fried by a lightning strike (save for previously mentioned modem).

 

[DaleBesh]

I would certainly think underground wiring has greatly limited the danger to lightning. I don't know if I would totally rule it out in areas known for severe storms.

Lightning arrestors are normally installed on outdoor antennas, etc. These also reduce noisy reception to various radio/TV receivers by grounding other static potentials on the line.

But while power conditioners and protectors do provide some lightning protection (often becoming sacrificial themselves) that is not their primary function. The main purpose is to assist in giving you clean power to your electronics, and/or remove power if the line becomes unstable.

 

[Doug Otte]

Tuan, I don't have your problem re: the sub on the other side of the room from the other components, but -
When I first got my sub, I had all my components hooked into an old Radio Shaft power strip. The hum from the sub was noticable, even when sitting about 8 feet away. Now I have everything going through a Panamax, and the hum is barely audible. I have to get down on hands 'n' knees and put my fat head next to the sub in order to hear the hum. Fortunately, I don't often listen to my system in that position! So, a surge protector/conditioner like the Panamax not only protects against surges, but can reduce the noise coming through the house's current.
Doug

 

[Yee-Ming]

Thanks again for the clarification Dale!

I've never had a problem with "noisy power" -- but perhaps that's because I don't know what "clean power" sounds like? Everything sounds all right on my setup, but then again I used to be happy with a HTiB.

Oh well. Next tweak to look into?