Scott Weinberg
Senior HTF Member
- Joined
- Oct 3, 2000
- Messages
- 7,477
....open-matte = still bad,....
Not if that's what the director intended.
...open-matte = still bad,.... Not if that's what the director intended.
Then it wouldn't be open-matte, it would be OAR. OAR can't equal open-matte since there would be no mattes to open.
Sure, to confuse matters, if the film was matted for theatrical exhibition but presented without those mattes on video, ala Kubrick, that is still OAR not really open-matte. We use open-matte in that instance to technically differentiate between the two presentations.
I want TAR, Theatrical Aspect Ratio. That can be anything from 1.33 to 2.5:1. However it was shown theatrically is what I want to see, and anamorphic at 1.66:1 or wider.
I don't. Take the two ARs you used as examples, neither can be projected on 35mm in the U.S. Per SMPTE 195 only the following ARs in U.S. 35mm projection: 1.37; 1.66; 1.85; and 2.39:1. I want OAR, which is how the film was composed.
There is no such thing as "can't be projected". I could project 1:1 if I wanted to or 10:1 on 35mm film.
Of course there is, in regards to commercial theatrical exhibition. I can compose a film with an OAR of whatever I wish. But it can only be projected at your AMC (or whatever chain) theater in one of the four aspect ratios I stated above because SMPTE has specified the standards for 35mm theatrical projection in the U.S. as such. Therefore, you may not have your film projected at 1.0:1 or 10.0:1 on 35mm at commercial theaters.
http://www.kodak.com/US/en/motion/ne.../pytlak2.shtml
http://www.thx.com/professional_services/guidelines.pdf
It would involve matting or windowboxing the image, but it still could be projected
Okay, sorry I didn't digest your entire post before the above response, but I would not consider this theatrical presentation to represent the OAR. In this instance the AR being projected is not the OAR of the project. It would be a way to have your particular OAR theatrically distributed and retain it's entire frame, but it is analogous to letterboxing on a TV. Anyway, considering this point, you are correct.
However, I was originally pointing out that many commercial films have an OAR that does not exactly match their theatrical presentation aspect ratio, thus I prefer films to be presented on DVD (at home) in their OAR, not necessarily as they were projected.
We'll have to agree to disagree on this one. I don't want unmatted transfers of films composed and theatrically exhibited at 1.85:1 (ala Kubrick), nor do I want 1.85 or 1.78 versions of films theatrically presented wider. I prefer the image area I was intended to see theatrically, which in some cases, will mean matting slightly to eliminate splices from the full aperature.
I can respect your opinion here, your preferring to have a film as you saw it in a theater. But, your implication that that is how they were composed is simply not always so.
Granted, you prefer TAR, but you are attributing the filmmakers intent as the same. However, as you know, the filmmakers intent is delineated as OAR, and the only indicator of the OAR is the ground glass and the corresponding framing leader. If the theatrical presentation is not identical to that, or taking into account your earlier point including that entire frame, then it is incorrect. Now, you may still prefer the theatrical aspect ratio, but you can't claim that such was the filmmakers intent just because that is how it was shown. Playing devil's advocate, someone could say that they wan't the films to fill their 4:3 TV screens because that is how they are shown on TV, thus that must be the filmmakers intended composition.
I know it's dicey to reference Kubrick, but you suggest he composed for the theatrically exhibited 1.85:1 and you don't want the open-matte version. Well, there is much more evidence that he composed for 1.37 or 1.33:1 and it was matted for theatrical exhibition.
Well, there is much more evidence that (Kubrick) composed for 1.37 or 1.33:1 and it was matted for theatrical exhibition.
That is correct. Should we let it stand that 1.33:1 is the OAR for The Shining, Full Metal Jacket, and Eyes Wide Shut?
Well, there is much more evidence that he composed for 1.37 or 1.33:1 and it was matted for theatrical exhibition.
Could you provide some examples of this "evidence"?