Disney, Lions Gate and Fox to HD DVD? Also MGM See Post #94 (1 Viewer)

[Lew Crippen]

This time the link worked.

Nothing but a copy and paste from the two prior petitions—you can consider that I have also done a copy and paste from prior comments on the prior petitions.

 

[DaViD Boulet]

Rob_HD,

Yet a third time you're posting this petition and *still* not even a single edit to "clean up" the mess with the mis-represented information it contains?

As an example of a bogus arguement for HD DVD support (one of the reasons suggested in the petition why FOX should support HD DVD):


Since all Blu-ray players will upconvert too, maybe that has NOTHING to do with the HD DVD format at all?

:rolleyes


Clearly all the good advice on this forum and at AVS has been completely ignored.

Condolences to the serious pro-HD DVD enthusiasts who would actually have wanted to studios to take the "please support HD DVD" request seriously.

 

[Rob_HD]

Those who support these petitions can feel free to report antagonistic and unhelpful posts in this thread to the Moderators, by clicking on the "!" report button at the bottom left of the post.

You do not need to reply, and it is probably better that you do not.

 

[DaViD Boulet]

Most of the criticisms have been *extremely* helpful... if the petition writer was interested in taking some of the advice and making constructive changes to present a legitimate-sounding petition to the studios in order to garner real support for the HD DVD format.

 

[Dan Rudolph]

In case numbers are convincing, I'll chime in. The petition amounts to "You should release movies on HD-DVD because some guy on the internet told me that Blu Ray sucks." I can't imagine this being very persuasive even if it had a bunch of signatures.

 

[Rob_HD]

It's possible that some people's "opinions" on what someone else should say are not necessarily "the right" advice. This is particularly true when it is plain that the opinion-giver does not share a common desire for HD DVD to succeed.

The petition seems specifically designed to bring these potential problems to light - "outing" them (or just the possibility that they may seem to exist) for both the studios and other decision-makers to see.

Just because some of the information came from insider discussions on AV forums does not mean that it is "false" information, only that it has not been formally confirmed.

The petition clearly seeks to prod the studios into getting to the bottom of the issues themselves - which they are perfectly capable of doing - and making their own judgement calls.

Most of the "advice" given by non HD DVD supporters here has been to remove any and all discussion of these potentially damaging bits of information. Quite natural considering that you support the other format. Just don't expect anyone to feel guilty for not obeying those "instructions".

 

[Dan Rudolph]

Do you seriously think the studios aren't paying attention to this, or that if they aren't, that a petition siting anonymous internet sources will change their minds?

 

[Rob_HD]

The sources cited were not anonymous, and sometimes folks at various levels in a company are not aware of "everything" that may be going wrong over at a different company.

 

[Todd H]

So you're saying that three members of the official Blu-ray Disc Association might not know what's going on with the format? I think they'd be more "in-the-know" than either yourself or some rumor posting member of AVSforum.

 

[Jesse Blacklow]

Really? Point out where anyone explicitly asked that this discussion be removed. The majority of the comment has been directed to towards the speculative (and manipulative) nature of the petition and it's spreading across several posts/forums.

 

[Randy Korstick]

Considering your position you should know how untrue this is. To suggest over and over that those whose job it is to work on DVD's and HD equipment are not informed and "clueless" about what is going on in the industry and with their competitors is completely ludicrous and an insult to the intelligence of everyone in this forum.

 

[DaViD Boulet]

If you look carefully, many of the posters sharing these opinions were pro-HD DVD or format-neutral. Same at AVS. Logic is Logic... whether your pro HD DVD/BD/both. And the petition is in serious need of some logical corrections!

 

[Nils Luehrmann]

Excellent points Jesse.

BTW: Kudos on a great sig quote!
Best sit-com in years... and I normally am not a fan of sit-coms.

Heck, I'll even plug HD DVD, as Universal controls the video distribution rights and the show is filmed in HD so one can expect a future HD DVD release. Of course, maybe by that time Universal will be releasing titles on Blu-ray… .

If you haven't already, take some time to check out Ricky Gervais' original series shown on BBC... its "brilliant".

 

[Sean Bryan]

I signed the petitions for Disney and Lion’s Gate without reading them. Now I wish I hadn’t.

It’s my own fault for being stupid and lazy and not reading it. I figured that since internet petitions don’t mean much any way, why waste my time reading it. I’d like these studios to release on HD DVD, so sure I’ll just sign a petition to let them know I’m interested.

After reading the stuff in there, I’m embarrassed to have my name attached to it.

Now, I’d happily sign a petition to let Fox know I’m interested in their movies on HD DVD. But I won’t sign this thing.

Since I’ll be getting BD as well, this whole issue isn’t a huge deal to me. But I’d still like both formats to have an equal shot and then let the chips fall where they may.

 

[DaViD Boulet]

Exactly.

Rob_HD,

Sean's comments should clarify that this isn't an anti-HD DVD agenda.

 

[Robert Crawford]

As one of my collegues has correctly stated there is a major difference between disagreement and being attacked. There is nothing wrong with people disagreeing with your point of view while doing so without personally attacking you.




Crawdaddy

 

[Michael Osadciw]

Let me critique the first point since I have difficulty with this. I won't even attempt the rest since everyone else has made their comments on them.


I really have a problem with people talking about price as if it's a major issue. Products, for the most part, are priced accordingly based on the level of quality/satisfaction it offers the consumer. To me this point in the "petition" tells me that all consumers want to pay a low price as if it was the major driving force behind the format war - after all, it is listed as #1. My answer: Hell no. If price was the issue then we'd all be buying all of our electronics at a store like Wal-Mart with their no-name brands and ditching the higher-end stores/community - because based on this first point, we'll assume there is no point/value in purchasing a higher-priced product. So all of us here who have invested $25 000+ on our systems should have just bought the Home Theater-in-a-Box for $299.99.

Humph.

I don't think the $299 customer has caused "rapid adoption" of home theater...from my work in the industry, I really think it has been the $2500-$7000 customer. People who buy product at the lowest price points are always last to buy long after a format has been established. The history of DVD technology is the perfect history lesson in that respect.

I couldn't help but to laugh at this when Toshiba tried using the same point to a group of electronics salesmen, the public, etc. during their road trip across North America. They say "Why buy Blu-Ray at $1000 when you can get the same thing for $600." Well, we know they are NOT going to be the same things - the technogies and what they offer are different in some respects. We know Toshiba is taking a bath on that pricing so it doesn't adequately represent the real costs of HD-DVD. How long will this low pricing last? Toshiba can't do this for years and years...can they? ...how will they make money? ...will other manufacturers also offer their players at a loss just to get HD-DVD out there? I doubt it; besides, most seemed positioned to sell Blu-Ray. With that point, why would another manufacturer build an HD-DVD player and sell it for $1000 when the Toshiba is beside it on the shelf at $499? (see the aside the next paragraph down) Price/value is all in the mind of the wallet-holder. If I want to spend $1800 on Pioneer Elite's Blu-Ray machine because I've always been happy with Pioneer and I believe it to be a superior product, then I will. To tell the studios in this petition that they must support HD-DVD because the price is lower and more will buy is rediculous.

[As an aside, with that point, don't bring in the fact that with Sony bringing in Playstation 3 at $499/$599 is the same thing because it isn't at all. The videogame customer is VERY VERY different than someone walking into an home theater store and wanting to buy a home theater for his basement for his family to enjoy. I've worked with these customers for 10 years and first: what independent/small chain home theater store would carry a videogame Playstation 3 as their main/major selling Blu-Ray machine? I'd say none. They'll be purchasing and selling the full-sized chassis that looks like a real professional piece of electronics that'll look great on the shelf too, not something out of a fantasy.

Second, will their customer accept a videogame machine as his main Blu-Ray player that drives his/her home theater? Think about that long and hard... the answer: NO CHANCE for same reason as above. Most adults (especially those who did not grow up with video games) will scoff at the idea of a PS3 in their home theater. It's not necessarily because the quality of the machine is lower, but it is mostly their attitude towards that product. This is not a product for them and Blu-Ray will have to succeed with full-sized units.

With PS3, Sony hopes that they can get those videogamers over to Blu-Ray to make the format succeed. Sure, like Toshiba, they are selling these machines at a loss too, and that is common with the introduction of videogame systems, but I think Sony has a greater advantage because they can reap in the $$$ with PS3 software and Blu-Ray movie/music titles - and given PS3 sales forcasts and other Blu-Ray software/hardware, they'll rake it in much faster than Toshiba will with their more limited HD-DVD rollout...so I really question Toshiba's capability for this same strategy...both companies will take years to recover from this, but my guess is that Toshiba will take longer if they keep lowballing hardware prices.

For Sony to successfully get gamers into HDTV Blu-Ray movies, they NEED to throw in a Blu-Ray movie or two (in the box) because a physical product that people can touch and play immediately will be much better than coupons/mail-in offers of Blu-Ray movies, even though that is better than nothing. Sony needs to let consumers know what their PS3 can do...if they don't do something like this...how many people will know it's a Blu-Ray player capable of HDTV movies? ...or how will they know what Blu-Ray is, period, without some kind of info card in the box? - and I'm talking more than just a little sidebar piece of info in the manual. I'd say most of the people with PS3 probably won't even have it hooked up to an HDTV, although it may inspire them to buy one one day (and how many are going to be kids??) It's all about "planting the seeds" as we say...and by the time they are ready to buy an HDTV all they will know is Blu-Ray.]

Time will tell when Blu-Ray is released, but we do know from the get-go (by spec only) that Blu-Ray machines will offer a little more for the money out of the gate. Early adopters who like what the Blu-Ray camp has to offer will purchase these machines. Again, to say that "HD-DVD is cheap so support it" is dubious claim...not only is it not true, but it's also insulting to those who do want to spend more on what seems to be a higher-calibre product. Yes...there are many of us who will spend more.

Mike

 

[Rob_HD]

This paragraph is indicative of just the type of post that may cause the thread to be viewed unkindly.

 

[Rob_HD]

Hi Robert.

I wholeheartedly agree with what you have said here.

I think what I am pointing out is that "disagreeing" with the petition, it's finer points, or perhaps even those who support, it is one thing - however, claiming that someone who is promoting it (ie me) is working for Toshiba or Microsoft, or has financial gain involved, or is dishonest, etc, is defintely into the realm of "attacking".

 

[Nils Luehrmann]

Questioning the credibility of the author and their agenda based on what is said in the petition isn't an attack; it's what intelligent people do when they read statements from individuals, let alone anonymous sources.

As far as the petitions go, you do claim to know the sources used to make the conclusions in the petitions. Considering your claimed familiarity with the petition’s sources, perhaps you can tell us who these "folks" are who gave these "indications" and who are "very involved in the industry (from replication to authoring)" and have a lot of experience under their belts."? While you are at it, we are still waiting for you to share with us the substantiated proof these "indications" are nothing more than speculation, and considering the anonymity, are not very credible.

No personal attack, just searching for understanding and clarification.