Definition of red push?

Discussion in 'Displays' started by Jonathan Moore-Wright, Aug 14, 2001.

  1. Jonathan Moore-Wright

    Jonathan Moore-Wright Auditioning

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    I know this must be described somewhere, but I can't find it. What is "red push," exactly?
    Further, is there a glossary of some of these terms around, preferably with some comments of which ones are important to consider, and which are less so? Would be a great asset to those of us not up to speed jargon-wise. [​IMG]
    Thanks very much
    -jmw
     
  2. Rick Mach

    Rick Mach Auditioning

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    Red push is when the color red is too bright/over emphasized after the set is properly calibrated. This can be gauged using an Avia test screen and the three color filters (red, green, blue) to look at red, green, and blue push. The red push is usually more of a concern than the others since it tends to be more common and more noticeable to the eye.
    ------------------
     
  3. Jonathan Moore-Wright

    Jonathan Moore-Wright Auditioning

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    Thanks for the reply, Rick.
    OK, bear with me a little further. I'm not familiar with the Avia test process, but if the set is properly calibrated, why would one colour be too bright? Isn't that what the calibration is for? Or is it that the red can't be de-emphasized enough?
    I'm assuming red push is why most of the TVs one sees in a department store showroom look too red.
    thanks again
    -jmw
     
  4. ThomasL

    ThomasL Supporting Actor

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    Jonathan, almost all tvs (with the possible exception of higher end computer monitor-type tvs) don't allow user level control of the individual color levels. Some people have found ways on some sets to alleviate red push via the service menu but normally, all one's user level menu system allows one to change is overall color saturation and overall tint. So, if one has calibrated the set's color and tint using the Avia blue filter, one can then look at the color decoder test pattern and see how much more red is being emphasized by the sets color decoder. When you look at this pattern, blue should be around 0 percent. If the set has a nice color balance then green and red will also be around 0 percent. When red is up over 10 percent, this is what people call "red push".
    cheers,
    --tom
     
  5. Dave Weida

    Dave Weida Extra

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  6. DougP

    DougP Agent

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    Wow! I think you guys just described what I was trying to search for (search is down as it usually is when load is high on this website - NOT a complaint! :).
    I just received my Panasonic CT36HX41 on Sunday and have only watched two movies. I'm seeing TOTAL RED PUSH and I'm kinda scared - thinking I should send the TV back or something. I've tried adjusting the tint and color but nothing seems pleasing.
    Over-the-air broadcasts seem a little better than the DVD so I'm going to try standard video input tonight (I'm using component) since the problem SEEMS worse on DVD.
    What does one usually do about this then? I buy a $2k TV and it doesn't look GREAT - do most people get Avia (or Video Essentials), calibrate and then enter service mode?
    PS - I'm not sure which forum to ask this question - this one seemed right and this discussion was already here.
     
  7. Tim Campbell

    Tim Campbell Agent

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    Doug,
    You will be amazed how crappy a picture can look on a new tv.
     
  8. Jonathan Moore-Wright

    Jonathan Moore-Wright Auditioning

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    thanks gents, informative as always!
     
  9. Andrew Beacom

    Andrew Beacom Supporting Actor

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    Doug,
    I have the 32HX41 and it has a red push of 15-20%. Do yourself a favour and buy AVIA or VE and calibrate your set. I was amazed how far off my front panel controls like color and tint were.
     
  10. DougP

    DougP Agent

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    Thank you all very much. What do "normal people" do? - those that aren't "into" HT as much as us? If I complained to Good Guys would they come out and adjust it perhaps? Why do I have to ask them?
    I guess I'll get online and get Avia (seems to get better reviews than VE) AND buy the service manual and tweak this little, er big piece of sweet toy!
    If I wasn't so excited about having my new toy I think I'd be pissed!
     
  11. ThomasL

    ThomasL Supporting Actor

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    Doug, unless there are parameters within the service menu that control/influence the color decoder, all you'll be able to do is lower the overall color saturation so that the red is not so bothersome. Calibrating with Avia will help you quantify the red push and determine where you want the overall color saturation.
    cheers,
    --tom
     
  12. DougP

    DougP Agent

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    Avia will simply quantify it - right? It doesn't do anything magical that will actually adjust it. My understanding is that these Panny's do have the ability to adjust the red all by itself within the service menu.
    I wish I knew how or knew 100% that I can fix this without spending the $100 to find out (Avia+service manual+ a week's wait). I'd hate to spend that and then find out my TV should be returned. (I suspect not from other posts)
    I found directions on how to get into service mode although I've not tried that and feel it's a bit dangerous without the manual. I'll try search again and see if I can find more posts on my specific model and service mode/red push but if anyone can point me in the right direction or tell me if I can definitely adjust this that'd be cool (one post seemed to have implied that).
    Or - if anyone wants to take this offline (has more "at your own risk" info?) - "dougyp@excite.com". Thanks.
     
  13. ThomasL

    ThomasL Supporting Actor

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    Doug, I've found that Avia is a worthwhile investment regardless of which tv you end up with. And I think Panasonic service manuals are fairly cheap ($10-15?). I bought one for an older 20 inch Panasonic and it was only $9. See if www.pacparts.com has it if you haven't already ordered it from somewhere.
    cheers,
    --tom
     
  14. Andrew Beacom

    Andrew Beacom Supporting Actor

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    Doug,
    There was a thread here by JohnnyG called "The Red Push Fix is in" or something. If search is down here you should be able to find it on the Panasonic forum at HomeTheaterSpot.com. You are correct in that Red Push is fixable on the Panny. Well thats the mail from people who have done it anyway.
     
  15. DougP

    DougP Agent

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    Thank you guys - always helpful around here; HTF is a tribute to how internet forums should be!
    I have read through the JohnnyG thread and one long article on Hometheaterspot also (plus many others). I'll double check to see if I missed anything but yeah, it seems that it's fixable.
    I think I'm going to take the stance that I should not have to buy a service manual and Avia to get a decent picture out of my new TV. Since I just bought the thing, GoodGuys owes adjusting the thing for me first.
    Then I'll get a service manual and Avia to get a "perfect picture" but as it sits now I cannot get even a decent picture - for all I know my set IS broken (it's pretty bad) so I better get on the stick 'cause I've only got 30 days to return it.
    Thanks guys,
    -Doug
     
  16. ChrisWiggles

    ChrisWiggles Producer

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    I hope your set is ok, I stumbled on this older thread while searching for something else [​IMG] . Anyway, I'd like to clarify some things.
    Red push is an over-emphasis of red in the colored portion of the picture. This CANNOT be fixed by adjusting red gain without screwing up grayscale. Redpush is a fault of poor color decoding, which ONLY affects color, NOT overall red. By lowering the overall red level, you reduce red globally, thus your grascale will be messed up, because it won't have enough red.
    Read Guy's more thorough explanation here if I went over your head, and the thread he links to specifically:
    http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htfo...threadid=57788
     
  17. DerKonig

    DerKonig Auditioning

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    I think that i have "Red Push", i just bought the Samsung 4243 EDTV set, its great but when i look a DVD when people wear red or anything that's red, they don't blend well like the other color, it's like pixeliated on the edges of the red. It's that Red Push, cause i was going to call Samsung about that.
     
  18. Daryl L

    Daryl L Supporting Actor

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    A quote of Joe Kane.
     

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