Dear Disney, please restore controversial scenes in upcoming Fantasia Platinum DVD/BD (1 Viewer)

[TravisR]

I think there's some truth in that but once again, Fantasia's stereotype is not true to how black people ever looked or acted. It's only a stereotype whereas I can say that some people do live the life shown/glorified in a rap video.

 

[Stephen_J_H]

But ultimately, how is the Fantasia stereotype any worse than the Asian stereotypes in Lady & the Tramp and The Aristocats, both of which have gone unaltered? Maybe I'm being overly sensitive because I grew up in a community with a substantial Asian minority, but a stereotype is a stereotype and if it is the Walt Disney Company's intent to eradicate offensive material from its films, it should treat all stereotypes equally.

As for what I would like them to do, I'd like a release with a disclaimer; Fantasia bores most kids anyway.

 

[MatthewA]

It seems to be only black stereotypes that Disney has a problem with. On some of the Walt Disney Treasures sets, cartoons with black stereotypes were shoved into the "From The Vault" category while those with stereotypes of other races and ethnicities were not.

And as for gay stereotypes, check out the Goofy cartoon "They're Off" (1949) one of these days.

 

[Craig Beam]

I'm always amazed that someone will actually refuse to buy a title because of one little detail. And it IS a little detail. It's one fucking shot, a few seconds in length. Big deal. Fantasia is way too big (and way too brilliant) to be brought down by the editing of one shot that, quite frankly, IS offensive and not worth all the scrutiny. This isn't an advocacy of censorship. It's a plea for perspective. Whether Walt really had an opinion on this one little shot, we'll likely never know for sure.

People are really going to boycott the Blu-ray release over this? I'm much more offended by the wholesale deleting of Deems Taylor's original narration on the DVD release. If the Blu-ray doesn't offer the original narration.... well hell, I'll probably still buy it, because Fantasia is one of my favorite films of all time.

 

[Arild]

Well, were the Asian stereotypes portrayed as being joyfully submissive to whites? I'm not for censorship one way or the other, but I'd say that particular point makes a big difference in just how offensive it is.

 

[Jonathan Peterson]

Here is the whole sequence that contains the scenes that were cut:

YouTube - Fantasia - The Pastoral Symphony - UNCUT

 

[MatthewA]

The desire to sanitize what was done and believed in the past, however unflattering, is a big deal. If it is not worth all the scrutiny, why was it cut to begin with? And it is more than one shot (thanks to Jonathan for the YouTube clip). And around the 7 minute mark Dionysus is served by two black centaurettes with zebra bodies (at least that's how they look thanks to the crummy compression).

The original Deems Taylor narration, as it was heard in 1940, apparently only exists in fragments. There's nothing anyone can do about that.

But do you really think they will stop at airbrushing this character? They haven't before, and they won't in the future.

Whether or not anyone is offended, you can't claim that to restore the film to what was intended in 1940 and then alter it to suit 2008 sensibilities is anything other than cognitive dissonance.

By the way, Gone With the Wind is rated G. Food for thought.

 

[TonyD]

I think the whole sequence is weird and the deleted character is a little startling to see.

If that section is deleted again it won't stop me from buying this on blu.
I also don't think it should be deleted from the movie.

 

[Stephen_J_H]

I beg to differ. The Asian stereotypes in Lady & the Tramp are manipulative caricatures that suggest that Asians are not to be trusted. In the Aristocats, the Asian stereotype is a clown that strikes at the heart of Asian culture and lampoons it. You may think that subservience makes a difference, but any portrayal that attempts to distill an individual's identity down to a few simple and exaggerated characteristics is a stereotype, plain and simple.

How these stereotypes (which I should add, should not be erased from existence simply for PC reasons) are dealt with by our modern, enlightened society says a lot about whether or not we are willing to learn from historical mistakes.

 

[Pete York]

Interesting, in the recap thread of the HTF Hollywood Meet to Disney the impression is that while Song of the South is a dead issue, the studio at least seems to be weighing the Fantasia situation.

 

[Edwin-S]

The one about the Asian stereotypes in "Lady and The Tramp" makes me laugh. They are talking Siamese CATS. Cats have a reputation for being sneaky and that is what the whole song is about. The song goes "we are Siamese if you please, we are Siamese if you don't please" not "we are Chinese or Japanese or Asian". The whole time the two cats are referring to their breed. Do they come from Asia and have an exaggerated Asian accent? Yes, but so what? It doesn't mean that Disney or his crew was making a statement about Asians. The tune dictated the breed of cats needed. It was a funny bit of business and possibly the most memorable scene of the whole movie.

I've watched that film dozens of time as a kid and as an adult and not once have I ever thought that Asians were not to be trusted. I just do not see animated talking animals as surrogates for real humans or races.

 

[Rachel Bowman]

I don't believe the scene should be restored, because if Walt were alive today, he would remove the shots himself (Leonard Maltin, in his book The Disney Films, stated Walt removed the scenes in the 50's to be sensitive to racial issues, and the DVD states they can't explain why the cut version has the same running time as earlier versions). Maltin could be wrong -- but having said that, I think we get sidetracked, in focusing on when the scenes were removed, when the real issue is this -- would Walt include them today?

Walt, throughout his life, amended his films for the tastes of his audience. They weren't sacrosanct holy relics to him, they were entertainment properties. I strongly believe he would do the same today (though he would have most likely re-animated the Sunflower scenes rather than cut them). Would Walt Disney want his beloved Fantasia to be used to hurt someone's feelings? Of course not. He would change the film were he alive today. Of that I have no doubts.

So Dear Disney, please respect the man who created Fantasia and respect his entertainment philosophies and DO NOT restore the shots to Fantasia.

And just as a side note, I think we can dispense with the argument that its important not to change Fantasia because how can we learn from the past if we're sanitizing it etc. What are you possibly going to learn from seeing the Sunflower moments? That animation studios in the 30's and 40's frequently used racial caricatures? There are legions of examples of these, what more are you really going to learn by seeing them in Fantasia?

 

[Stephen_J_H]

For the record, I was being satirical and blowing the stereotypes out of proportion, in much the same way the black character in Fantasia has been blown way out of proportion. If you watch the Pastoral Symphony segment in its entirety, you'll note that the black centaurette is not the only character serving the other centaurettes. So are the cherubs! Does this mean that babies are also subservient to adults? Just restore the bloody scene already and if you think it may be offensive, put in a disclaimer about cultural attitudes at the time, like what Warner has done with its Looney Tunes collections.

 

[bob kaplan]

i would hope to have the movie available as it was first presented. If, however Disney makes changes as before, i hope they take a greater effort to make presented changes on par with the rest of the presentation. As it is on the present disc, the zoomed portions scream "blow- up", manipulation and grain, not visible on the rest of the movie. i realize that doing so will call for enhancement procedures with which many viewers will be unhappy.

 

[DaViD Boulet]

Everyone is talking about "art".

What's the "art" of Fantasia? It's the experience that it creates by transporting you through innovative, and groundbreaking visuals set to the classical musical score. For most people that I know, that's a magic-carpet-ride that would come to an abrupt interruption with the stereotyped racial depiction in the original work.

I understand purists' desire to be able to see the original version for historical and originalist reasons. I don't object to that being made possible for the avid collector. But as far as the artistic intent of the program, it is, in fact, better served by not having a jarring and insulting racialy stereotyped charicature get in the way.

 

[Edwin-S]

Then we are actually in agreement. I think this whole issue is just overblown. I do not see why Disney cannot satisfy everybody in regards to this issue. The BD format has seamless branching, so I cannot see why Disney doesn't use it to solve this issue. They could provide an uncut, uncensored and unmolested version of this film for people who care about the integrity of animated films. Via branching, a cut version could be provided for those who think that animated films should be modified at will by studio suits: you know, the same kind of people who would scream bloody blue murder if a live action film was digitally manipulated to remove racially insensitive imagery or language.

I would like to see the reaction if a film like "Birth of Nation" was suddenly made unavailable for distribution because of its subject matter. The same people who say it is okay for Disney to suppress SOTS or cut FANTASIA would suddenly be out there screaming about censorship and the necessity of protecting filmmakers from the forces of political correctness.

 

[Timothy E]

The real problem with censorship like this is that it becomes a slippery slope in which cutting a few frames in Fantasia leads to more cutting scenes of Cowboy Goofy or Pecos Bill smoking a cigarette (Melody Time & Saludos Amigos), cutting a few frames of a minister with knobby knees because someone with a filthy mind thinks it looks like an erection (The Little Mermaid) even though that same person probably thinks anything resembles an erection, and cutting entire sequences to the point that the first 7 minutes or so of a movie is gone entirely because we apparently do not want a cartoon with hillbilly caricatures to offend any real hillbillies who might purchase our product (Make Mine Music). The Hatfields and the McCoys are simply AWOL from the DVD for Make Mine Music as if the sequence never existed. Likewise, Robert Zemeckis' theatrical cut of Who Framed Roger Rabbit is simply not available on DVD because the current regime has decreed that some of the jokes simply go too far. How much have the public sensibilities changed in the last 20 years that jokes that were acceptable in 1988 are no longer proper on the Who Framed Roger Rabbit DVD in 2008?

This censorship isn't even applied consistently, which demonstrates its absurdity. Why can I buy an uncensored DVD of Make Mine Music in Finland but I cannot in America? Is it because there are fewer hillbillies who might be offended in Finland? There is more overt racism in Gone With The Wind than there is in Song of the South, yet the latter movie is not available (officially) on DVD.

When I pay good money for a classic movie, I want to see the same movie that audiences saw in the 1940s, whether it is Make Mine Music, Melody Time, or Fantasia. I am offended every time I pay good money and find out I have been ripped off once again because some nervous nelly is afraid that the Hatfields and the McCoys are going to offend someone else who has acute sensitivities.

Whether you are willing to buy a purged PC version of Fantasia is every consumer's individual choice, but consider this: every time you demonstrate indifference to mediocrity, in entertainment, in government, in anything else, you are supporting mediocrity and you are causing it. Since most of us are not in a position of influence with Disney where they will listen to us directly, the only thing left to us is to vote with our pocketbooks. If Disney knows that consumers will not tolerate being given a censored Fantasia being touted as "the complete restoration" then we will see the real thing. If Disney knows that consumers will tolerate a few frame or entire sequences deleted from its film library, then we can expect to be treated to more of the same censorship in the future.

 

[Stephen_J_H]

What are the alterations to Who Framed Roger Rabiit, and when were they done?

 

[Patrick McCart]

My problem with Disney's tampering with Fantasia is that it was entirely misleading. It clearly says "The Original Uncut Version" on the front. Yet Deems Taylor is redubbed and they edited the Pastoral segment. That is misleading and dishonest. Even in the version notes section, they even noted the changes on previous editions, making it seem like the 2000 restoration had them reinstated.

If they had at least put a disclaimer that Taylor's voice was redubbed and editing was applied to the Pastoral, it wouldn't be as big of a deal. Or just leave off "original, uncut" and just say "Extended Version" instead.

Disney has absolutely nothing to fear. Even if they released Song of the South, they'd just have to deal with a week or two of controversy, then everyone will forget about it once Disney insists they won't change their mind. This happened with TCM's airing of The Birth of a Nation. They got a lot of complaints, then it was like it never happened a week later.

 

[Michael Elliott]

I know very few kids who are dying to see this film. In fact, I know very few who enjoy these older Disney, LT or even Tom and Jerry. These movies mainly appeal to adults with kids going the way of Pixar so I don't think we need to worry about protecting children.