"Dark City: Director's Cut" coming to Blu-ray on July 29 (1 Viewer)

[RickER]

I am of the mind the Starship Troopers issue may be an HDMI issue, not the disc. I base this on the fact some say its not an issue, or they didnt notice it...cause i would if it existed. I have this disc on order, so i cant say one way or another. Its just when i think of out of synch audio, HDMI is the first thing that comes to mind.

 

[TonyD]

Sigh....
From that thread:
Quote:
"also there appears to be a minor lip synch situation that may show up twice
in the ST disc. and it is being called shoddy.
the lip sync was not a problem while i watched it.
now if it was as bad as that sd dvd dts track of Moulen Rouge, that would be a serious problem."
Dude said the sync issue wasn't a problem when he watched it. See? It's varies by person. How was it when you watched it Roger? Oh right... you didn't see it....
no one says they WANT DNR, EE, or audio problems. We all want perfect discs. Just because some of it falls in the good enough category for some of us, it doesn't mean we're ruining it for you.

well, i said that.
i think it is a pick your battles sitiuation.
the lip sync on Troopers was such a minor thing that it isn't important enough to even bring up.
thats why i didn't mention it until someone else did.
plus i don't know why hdmi would factor in to a sync situation.
i use a ps3 and a denon 3808.
haven't had any sync issues with anything else.
i still say it's part of the track or is a dubbing issue/
or it could be a disc error but only happens a couple of times.
i guess it could compare to the framing prolem on the Pirates blu-ray.
that did get fixed so who knows.
i doubt there will be a "fix" made for dark city.
what can one do?
don't buy the disc and send a letter to let them know why
you won't buy it.

 

[Dave Mack]

So you actually watched the film with your laptop next to you, stopping the film every once in a while to comment about DNR and EE over the message boards?
I mean seriously, I would think that the "film", "story" and "actors" are still the main thing here, EVEN if the transfer has minor "issues". You probably ruined that from yourself over this silly thread..

Actually, no. The computer is in the other room. Why do you care how I watch my discs?
I stopped it and posted three times, once after the "infamous" cop hat scene which to me looked exactly like the PNG screen capture with VERY noticeable EE and once later to get a snack and lastly because I had to walk the dog. I've also seen the film dozens of time before including in the theater. And I have a small child so I almost never get through any film in one sitting nowadays as it is.
I work all day and come home and have to watch my kid for half the night.
But to some the EE isn't just a minor issue. It's prevalent in most scenes and to some including me, distracting. When you have a 92" screen, the halos around certain things look pretty big. Not to mention the really odd DNR that happens on the Connelly closeups in a few scenes. To me it looks very processed, digital and even "video-like". Now to some, this is fine. Cool. You all are entitled to your view, but why the constant urge to change the minds of the people who do have some issues? Everyone's entitled to their opinion. The bottom line is simply this "Could Dark City have looked Better? Should it have looked better?" Yes. If someone thinks "no, this is as good as it could have and should have looked even with EE and DNR" then I don't know what to say.

 

[Jari K]

Everyone's entitled to their opinion.

Yes, and with 10 pages, I believe this is the only "fact" that we have in this thread.

 

[Dave Mack]

Why the sarcasm...? First the crack about watching the movie, "with my laptop next to me" then this?

Yes, and with 10 pages, I believe this is the only "fact" that we have in this thread.

Fact: There is EE on the BD.
Fact: The image would have looked more natural and film-like without it.
Fact: EE does bother some people.
Whether you can't see it or it doesn't bother you doesn't change this.

 

[Scott Calvert]

Actually, no. The computer is in the other room. (and how DID you know it was a laptop?!?!?)
I stopped it and posted three times, once after the "infamous" cop hat scene which to me looked exactly like the PNG screen capture with VERY noticeable EE and once later to get a snack and lastly because I had to walk the dog. I've also seen the film dozens of time before including in the theater. And I have a small child so I almost never get through any film in one sitting nowadays as it is.
I work all day and come home and have to watch my kid for half the night.
But to some the EE isn't just a minor issue. It's prevalent in most scenes and to some including me, distracting. When you have a 92" screen, the halos around certain things look pretty big. Not to mention the really odd DNR that happens on the Connely closeups in a few scenes. To me it looks very processed, digital and even "video-like". Now to some, this is fine. Cool. You all are entitled to your view, but why the constant urge to change the minds of the people who do have some issues? Everyone's entitled to their opinion. The bottom line is simply this "Could Dark City have looked Better? Should it have looked better?" Yes. If someone thinks "no, this is as good as it could have and should have looked even with EE and DNR" then I don't know what to say.

Well said Dave. This is the Home Theater Forum, where people are going to nitpick transfer issues. If some aren't bothered by these issue then ok. But why some people come in here to criticise the "nit-pickers" I'll never understand.
We want the absolute best quality we can possibly get out of the technology. That means being as faithful to the original film elements as can possibly be achieved. Isn't that what HTF is all about???
There are some less-than perfect transfers that I can live with (like Dark City which I have seen) but I would never start posting about how people are being overly nitpicky. If they want to be nitpicky and make themselves heard, hey great. Go to it. At best it ends up benefiting everyone. At worst, well, things stay the same. And if you are happy with the same, then please shut the fuck up and let people who want better quality fight for it in peace.

 

[Jari K]

Audio out of sync is easily 100 times more noticeable then a bit of DNR..

But is it actually "out of sync"? If it´s "100 times more noticeable", why we have one review stating that (over 10 or something like that) and 1 reporting in the forums (the same reviewer)? I find this confusing to say at least.
It´s a bit scary, that we don´t need more info about these issues. One or two posts in the message board will do.. The audio is just "out of sync", simple as that..

 

[Jari K]

Fact: There is EE on the BD.
Fact: The image would have looked more natural and film-like without it.
Fact: EE does bother some people.

Fair enough. What should we do? Don´t you think, that the points have been made in this thread (to both ways)? To me, the "message" is quite clear..
"Dark City" is one Blu-ray-title of over 600. It´s time to let it go.

 

[Robert Crawford]

Fair enough. What should we do? Don´t you think, that the points have been made in this thread (to both ways)? To me, the "message" is quite clear..
"Dark City" is one Blu-ray-title of over 600. It´s time to let it go.

Perhaps, you should let it go too. If you don't like what some other member is posting then ignore it and move on. That process works well for me quite often.
Crawdaddy

 

[Jari K]

Perhaps, you should let it go too.

Ah, yes. Well, of course.

 

[Dave Mack]

Well said Dave. This is the Home Theater Forum, where people are going to nitpick transfer issues. If some aren't bothered by these issue then ok. But why some people come in here to criticize the "nit-pickers" I'll never understand.
We want the absolute best quality we can possibly get out of the technology. That means being as faithful to the original film elements as can possibly be achieved. Isn't that what HTF is all about???
There are some less-than perfect transfers that I can live with (like Dark City which I have seen) but I would never start posting about how people are being overly nitpicky. If they want to be nitpicky and make themselves heard, hey great. Go to it. At best it ends up benefiting everyone. At worst, well, things stay the same. And if you are happy with the same, then please shut the fuck up and let people who want better quality fight for it in peace.

Exactly. This part of the HTF mission statement...
"We the members of the forum are interested in the film product to be recorded and reproduced as closely as possible to the way the original creator(s) of that particular film intended. We respect the integrity of all artists involved in creating the original film as well as those who helped bringing the product to a form suited to be used in a home theater environment.
The main goals of the discussions on the Home Theater Forum are to learn and to share: to learn more about the cinematographic art-form and the best techniques to present the films, and to share our knowledge with anyone who sincerely wants to benefit from the knowledge of his or her fellow members.
Discussions on this forum are polite, cordial and respectful. We do not hesitate to express our opinion on matters involved, knowing other members may or may not share those opinions. We will always respect opinions of other members, even if we do not share a particular opinion ourselves. We will not verbally attack other members in a personal way, but instead try to contribute to the common knowledge about, and understanding of all applicable topics discussed.
Currently we acknowledge the Digital Video Disc (DVD), and its high-definition successor(s), as the main, most advanced and most important medium for films to be (re-)presented in our homes. We certainly will not exclude other suitable media from our discussions, however. We strive for the highest achievable quality (video and sound) to be recorded on DVD, to be sold and/or rented in a form free for consumers to use in their homes. We want to advance films to be represented as complete as possible and with their full image, as intended by the original creators, intact. We want the best soundstage obtainable in a homely environment..."
What happened here? Nowadays very often if you express anything at all about a disc or a transfer in a negative way or point out areas where there could've been improvement you get sarcastic one liners, dismissive comments.
5 years ago people were complaining about DNR and EE and it seems like nothing's changed. What's the point of even having this forum if it's just going to be a BD disc cheerleading section?
It will really be a shame if every thread just turns into a big ad for each release and any negative criticism squashed. "Oh well, it's better than the DVD..." is not what BD and it's marketing promised.
The only reason I posted right away is because Jim had basically said that I was commenting on the disc without having seen it. He was right, so I watched it. Then I posted my observations. I'm not saying the disc is horrible or that it should be recalled. ("Gangs of New York", THAT should be recalled!) I'm just saying that it's disappointing in that it's a great film and it's too bad there are ANY issues.
I do recommend the disc for anyone who likes the film.
off soapbox

 

[RobertR]

Oh well, it's better than the DVD..." is not what BD and it's marketing promised.

Damn RIGHT!

 

[Robert Crawford]

Well said Dave. This is the Home Theater Forum, where people are going to nitpick transfer issues. If some aren't bothered by these issue then ok. But why some people come in here to criticise the "nit-pickers" I'll never understand.
We want the absolute best quality we can possibly get out of the technology. That means being as faithful to the original film elements as can possibly be achieved. Isn't that what HTF is all about???
There are some less-than perfect transfers that I can live with (like Dark City which I have seen) but I would never start posting about how people are being overly nitpicky. If they want to be nitpicky and make themselves heard, hey great. Go to it. At best it ends up benefiting everyone. At worst, well, things stay the same. And if you are happy with the same, then please shut the fuck up and let people who want better quality fight for it in peace.

Let me make a couple of comments regarding your post. First off, I think part of the problem here is that some members have a low tolerance for contrary points of view and to be honest, the perceived constant spread of negativity that is being spread by some regarding the doom and gloom of HDM. Please, make note of the word "perceived". IMO, they have a right to challenge such comments within the framework of our posting guidelines. However, too many times, some of us get caught up in attacking the poster instead of their particular views you disagree with. Furthermore, being sarcastic and basically being a "smart ass" are not elements that are conducive to facilitating healthy and respectful debate. We basically make our disagreements more personal than they need to be. Some might try to label that as being passionate, but can't you be passionate and still respectful towards others that you don't agree with. It's alright to disagree, but that doesn't mean we have to be rude and hostile to those that don't share our points of view.
Right now, it appears we are having difficulties in balancing out the issues that are affecting this hobby in a negative way. There are too many comments that are dismissive of the severity of certain issues and in another regard, there are far too many comments that approach hyperbole regarding those issues. Such a balancing act will always be present due to a number of reasons regarding the personal differences that are present within us as HT enthusiasts. However, recognizing such differences should allow us to have spirited discussions about EE, excessive DNR and lossless audio without us ever losing our sense of respect towards others that are either more sensitive or tolerant of such issues. Our goal should be is to work together to improve our hobby without appearing like we're a bunch of combatants that are more interested in spreading our point of view like it's the only one that matters in our discussions. We all have equal value in expressing our opinions.
In closing, I find your last sentence in your post in direct conflict to what we need to do as a HT community and though, I understand your frustration, I think there is a better way to express such frustration.
Crawdaddy

 

[Dave Mack]

Agreed.
And on a lighter note, the film is excellent with the DC adding a few nice touches and the FX tweaks in the big end showdown done tastefully and seamlessly.
The scene where Rufus breaks through the glass separating him and Connely to grab her and kiss her as the music swells is a WONDERFUL romantic moment!

 

[Ruz-El]

But is it actually "out of sync"? If it´s "100 times more noticeable", why we have one review stating that (over 10 or something like that) and 1 reporting in the forums (the same reviewer)? I find this confusing to say at least.
It´s a bit scary, that we don´t need more info about these issues. One or two posts in the message board will do.. The audio is just "out of sync", simple as that..

Just popped in to clarify since I'm being quoted out of context again. I can't speak for, and was not speaking about the "Starship Troopers" disc. I was making the comment that audio being out of sync is far more noticeable to people then EE and other things, which the majority of consumers probably don't even think is a problem. Everyone with functioning eyes and ears can tell if the audio isn't matching. If those are the review numbers you quote are accurate on that release, then for me, the audio issue probably wouldn't of been a deal breaker for me, as it sounds like on ST it's hardly noticable. similar to how the reports of EE on Dark City wouldn't be the deal breaker either, since I genuinly want to see this cut of the movie, so this release well be "good enough".
And in respect to Crawford, I'll bow out again as I think I've made my opinion clear.

 

[Paul_Scott]

Oh well, it's better than the DVD..."

Funny, but that is the exact thought that came to mind several times as I watched this last night.
For the record, The DNR that has been used is probably just within my tolerance level. The EE was a greater distraction for me personally. That was the element that kept reminding me 'this is just nice looking video'.

 

[Snatcher42]

Is there any way for us SD users to get a look at the content of the Blu-ray's "fact track"? I own both the original and new DVDs, and would like to know every little changed made to the DC. Thanks.

 

[Michel_Hafner]

I don't like out of sync audio but I can actually do something about it if I care enough (some video and audio processors have lip syn options). I can't remove the EE and DNR though if I don't like it. But I could add it, if I like it. So the solution is very simple. No EE and DNR on the source. People that want it can add it themselves during playback. Everybody is happy.

 

[Ray_R]

I'll wait for the Holographic Video Disc.
But seriously, I do consider buying this on Blu-ray along with the DVD though. The DVD since it'll be an interim until I get a BD player and to build the library concerning the format. Doesn't matter if i'm still purchasing HDDVD since hey, alot of the titles are cheap and might as well go for it until I fully delve into Blu.
I figure I'll be able to find this for cheap on Amazon or DeepDiscount. Better start on the Blu titles anyway for my collection. Of course I'll work on the titles to "upgrade" obviously.
Damn I love this movie.

 

[Xylon]

whoops