Dances with Wolves - Disc 'Rot'? (2 Viewers)

[Rohan_B]

>>>One thing I have always wondered is, how is a dual-layered DVD, err... 'glued' together?! And how do they manage to align the layers?

 

[Todd Robertson]

Assuming a defect rate of 0.5%, I calculate that there are well in excess of 3 million defective DVDs 'decaying' in North America alone. If this proves to be the case, and the industry doesn't take appropriate steps to appease affected consumers, consumer confidence in the format could be dented.

...and the bigger the collection lost, the bigger that dent will be. just curious, but who will replace 1,000 dvds or 10 or $15,000 when in 7 years or less....all the dvds in a collection just die? how about 1,000 people with 1,000 dead dvds....or a million? laugh now.....but it's going to hurt bigtime when it happens. so who do concerned consumers turn to? who's going to investigate or at least get us some answers? it's going to be too late to act on this sooner than you think. we cant wait until everyone is experiencing this...but it needs dealt with now. do we need some kind of demonsration in front of a pressing plant? problem is, only about 10 people would show up since so many are in denial.

 

[Gordon McMurphy]

Phew! Cheers, Rohan!


Gordy

 

[Howard S]

HURRAH!!

Using the contact details provided in an earlier post by BrianP, I contacted Warner Media Services.

In complete contrast to the lack of assistance from Image Entertainment, WAMO have apologised and have replaced the faulty disc almost by return. I now have a working copy of the 3 hour cut of this film.

My faith in the DVD industry has been restored, although I will be trying to avoid any offerings from Image in the future!

Many thanks to BrianP and Warner for their help, and to Home Theater Forum for providing the means to obtain information/advice from fellow DVD enthusiasts.

 

[BrianP]

That's great news that WAMO still had a copy to exchange.

 

[RobD]

Kind related,

I have a similar problem near the end of my Fifth Element Superbit disc, it was replaced and it still does the same thing the pictures breaks up and finally freezes nearish the end of the film (Within the same 5 second band every time which was a different band on the first copy I had), could this be a bad batch?

Has anyone else heard of any issues with this title?

 

[Gordon McMurphy]

My copy goes all to hell in chapters 8 and 9 - break-up. :frowning:

Damn. I have never had disc faults until this week. First it was the 5th disc of Image's War And Peace and now this. Weird. Annoying.


Gordy

 

[Anthony Urzi]

You can't expect these things to last forever.....everything ha sa shelf life....and the discks aren't that expenisve, if you have to replace a disck every couple of years is that really such a bad thing?

granted discks shouldn;t fall apart and become unreadable after 2, 3, or even 4 years.

but if oyu have a dvd over 4 years old, chances are it's time to replace it anyway for newer transferes, special features, whatever..

It's great that they repalced yoru disc, but opeole are funny.

their $14 dvd gets unplayable and they want lifetiem free replacements, but somones 6 year old $10,000 car or their 7 year old $4,000 air conditionar breaks, they dont expect it to be made as good as new or replaced for free

 

[Todd Robertson]

thats so insane, I'm choking on it. who said discs are to last forever? how about just 20 to 50 years? I'll be dead and wont give a damn. some, including the dvd info right here at the bits, say a dvd will last 50 to 300 years with proper care. o.k., I knew right off the bat, that was a bold statement. I'll be happy with the minimum 50. but need to replace the discs every 4 years....if not for nothing more than new transfers and such. I call BS on that one. what will 4 more years do for a film like Guru: The Mad Monk or Blood Beast? nothing. other films can and will be upgradable because they are going to benefit from new tech. but I know about 700 dvds right now that I SHOULD NOT have to replace...unless I damage the disc. I'll be into HD DVD....for selected films only. many films look just find the way they are. so yes...the dvd should last a lifetime with proper care. a vhs tape SHOULD NOT outlast a dvd. THINK!!!!! it's a library....just like books. used for LATER reference and enjoyment. and replacing a dvd every 4 years.....holy sweet mother of Jesus. insane.

 

[Gordon McMurphy]

granted discks shouldn;t fall apart and become unreadable after 2, 3, or even 4 years.

Yarbles!

I have CDs from 1983 that work perfectly - and mastered better than modern CDs too boot! So there!

I won't be fobbed-off with some lame excuse about the glue in between the layers 'coming undone' - there are adhesive bonds on the market that are gaurunteed to last for 20-50 years, folks.

When HD-DVD comes down the pike, I also will only be buying films that I rate 5/5. By the time HD-DVD hits big, the price of standard DVDs will have fallen dramatically, and any films that I won't to check out will be on low-price DVD. Until the price of HD-DVDs drops accordingly!

But dual-layered DVDs should last for at least 50 years - there's no reason why they shouldn't. Unless they are manufactured poorly...


Gordy

 

[James David Walley]

They have suggested two courses of action.

1. I buy the forthcoming Special Edition of the movie (which they tell me contains some very interesting special features.....!)

2. I buy a new DVD player!!

I'm surprised they didn't also offer a third course:

3. Kiss our ***, stupid powerless consumer!



Seriously, I would suggest to them that they might consider footing the bill to allow you to take course 1, above. After all, you shelled out your money to them for what is now apparently a useless plastic disc, right?

 

[Jeff D Han]

Good one, James! Unfortunately, #3 is what usually
happens to us.

My 2 cents-

I thought digital audio/ video if treated with care
and common sense was supposed to last a "lifetime".
To me a "lifetime" is 50 years or more. I strongly
feel that distributors should be responsible for
product that erodes because of manufacturing problems.
I'm surprised and delighted to see that Howard got
satisfaction from WAMO and I hope in the future we
hear about other cunsumers that got help from
distributors because of defective product. Since
DVDs have been around almost 6 years, we probably
will hear alot more horror stories of favorite titles
not playing anymore. Unfortunately the majority of
distributors (like Image) will suggest that our players
are the problem, not the bad batch of discs. Since
DVDs are known for not playing in certain players
(even new releases), most companies will stand firm that
the player is the problem and they will always suggest
that you try the disc in another make and model of
pleyer or buy another player. I have over 300 DVDs
right now and I hope that they last a while.

 

[Jeff Kleist]

Jeff Han:

Image could not have helped him if they wanted to. Their license has expired. WAMO however is under no such restriction and had extras lying around

 

[Anthony Urzi]

So because dvd's are suposedly capable of lasting a lifetime, their distributors should be obligated to offer free lifetime replacement?

Come to think of it i dont think the majority of discs come with ANY sort of warentee or garuntee of playability. Most companies replace "defective" discs becasue it's good customer service and is simply easier for them, and keeps the consumer quiet, but i dont believe there is any legal requirment there.

I have 500 movies on disc, if ~5(1%) stop playing and i need to replace them, i will without any bad feelings twords the studio's

It cracks me up when peopel who have collections worth tens fo thousands of dollars (700 dvds x $14 = $9800) or $2000-$20000 HT's (the majority? of users here) complain about havign to spend 15-20 to replace a disk they probably havent watched in 3 years.

Nothing is going to be defect free, and the discs are subject to a lto fo things studios have no control over. WHat temperature and humidity have the discs been stored at, with regards to older discs, the glue likly isn't a sstrong as new manufacturign polocies and discs are spun 2-6x faster now then when the disk was made and what it was designed for. I think most of yoru standard single layer dvd's will last for 50+ years without a hicup. But the more complex you get, duel layer, higher bitrates more streams, the more subsebtle the disc will be to minor glitches rendering the disc unplayable, especially fi you have a tempermental player. You pop almost any dvd into a pc dvd drive it
ll play mor eor less perfect every time...discs that were totally unplayable due to scratches or smudges or simply incomparable features, will copy perfectly (if slowly) to my hd for playback and/or backup to new unmarred media. I bed my drive would have played your dances with wolves. Now ofcourse you as a consumer feel you shouldn't have t do thsi you paid your $16.99 on sale, and you shoudl be able to play that disk whenever and however you want for as long as you live and endors the format.

Maybe it shoudl work that way bu tit's unrealistic, and the reality of the media market and dvd's today, I'm fine with. Maybe I'm the minority, maybe everyone els ewho feels like I do, simply doesn't care enough to post, or is too afraid of retropution or disagreement. Either way thsi is my view, i stand by it and you're more then in yoru rights to disagree, nag the sudio's be the greasy wheel and get whenever their willing to give you, mor epower to you.

Personally i'd rather keep prices low and not have any sort fo long term playback garuntee then have disc prices artificially raised to impose said garuntee in a public advertised fasion.

 

[Gordon McMurphy]

I have 500 movies on disc, if ~5(1%) stop playing and i need to replace them, i will without any bad feelings twords the studio's

And what if those replacememts you buy have faults? At which stage in your re-buying would you draw the line?

DVDs are like anything else - a car for example: if after 5 years, it turns out that the steering wheel or breaks have a manufacturing fault, the rigth thing to do is to contact the manufacturer and the the right thing for them to do is to either fix the breaks or give you a new car. With DVD, it is even simpler than that: how hard is it to mass-produce DVDs with no faults?

Bottom line: I won't be jibbed by anyone. It cost 20 cents to produce a DVD; I pay $20 for it. I want, nay, demand quality and value-for-money.

Maybe if I was a millionaire, I would be blaise about this, but I'm an honest blue-collar movie-lover, and I won't be denied!


Gordy

 

[Jeff D Han]

Hey Jeff Kleist-

I wasn't specifically getting on Image's case, but
for us movie fans it would be unfortunate if there
is no answer to the question of faulty DVDs that should
last longer than 5 years. It isn't fair that we would
be shit out of luck if our favorite movies became
unplayable and we would be talking to walls when
we need customer service. Yes, I know titles can't
be massed produced forever so they will go OOP at
some point, but if DVD rot really becomes a big issue
with a greater percentage of defects, then the original
distributor should either replace the title or start
a credit or exchange program.

BTW, do you have a theory about this rot problem? Is
it a temperature/ humidity problem or is it a case of
how often the discs are played? Could it be how the
discs are stored (vertically or horizontally)? I would
like to hear your opinion.

 

[Anthony Urzi]

if you mass produce anything there are going to be defects it's unavoidable, all you can do is limit those defects as much as possible, but you'll lever completly eliminate them, and a good quality control system, will only catch so many mistakes, some are goign to slip through and reach the consumer. If it''s a seriouse enough problem you'll catch it right away, and getting a replacement is a snp, no questions asked no problems. But trying to get that same disc repalced 2, 3, 6, years after you bought it is a bit of a hard sell (especially when the majority of peopel treat their discs liek crap, the studios are rightly skepticle about replacign it so long after purches* and if it's oop, or the rights have been transfered or a new edition has been released, that'll make it even more difficult.

I hate to tell ya how many dvd's i bought and still haven;t watched all the way through to verify quality......a mistake i know, i just don't have that kind of time.

 

[Howard S]

Bottom line: I won't be jibbed by anyone. It cost 20 cents to produce a DVD; I pay $20 for it. I want, nay, demand quality and value-for-money.

I agree wholeheartedly.

Amongst other things, the DVD industry has promoted the durability of the medium, which is partly why we are asked (and are willing) to pay a premium price over VHS - for a product which I'm certain costs a lot less to manufacture. The industry should stand by these claims, as WAMO has done.

 

[Leroy]

I had a similar problem with this disc. It started around the time their camp was invaded by the war party. It pixelated, then started jumping chapters (about 2). Took it back and got a different copy, it's been fine since. This was the week of it's release, BTW.