D-VHS on the way? Studios pledge Support in Thursday's Conference (1 Viewer)

[Steve Owen]

Is it just me, or does it seem that studios are will to do whatever it takes, even if it means less sales, to try and stop piracy. They'd rather sell 10 copies and have no piracy than sell 100 for every 10 copies pirated. Typical short-sightedness.

-Steve

 

[Norm]

CharlesD,

Tape has too many drawbacks for a consumer system and now that the public is used to the convienences of discs it will be harder to re-introduce them to the market.

Are you kidding, almost everyone knows how to use a VCR, even my Grandparents. My Grandsparents don't even really know what DVD is, and never even used a CD.

 

[Adam_WM]

I just read a great article over at DVDAngle. Check it out. I agree wholeheartedly.
http://www.dvdangle.com/editorial/index.html#013002-1

 

[RobertR]

Showgirls as a launch title. No more 'opaque' circles.

We'll know the format has really arrived when that happens, Brian. You da man when it comes to having prerecorded HD material (seeing Rachael Bellomy getting green with envy again)!

 

[Todd Hochard]

Every person I've met, that had a HDTV set said, it blows DVD away. This product is needed for them, and that market.

The BEST HDTV material blows DVD away, but that doesn't change the fact that it's tape. "Them" is me, and here's one person that's had HDTV for a while that won't be jumping on this bandwagon, unless it's REALLY cheap.

I'll take HD Replay for timeshifting, though, please. Tomorrow.

Todd

 

[Steve O]

===========================================
MY PERSPECTIVE:
I am almost as infuriated at the prospect of another tape-based home video format as I was with the fiasco that was Div-X. Like that flawed concept, I will work just as tirelessly to defeat D-VHS. Based on how quickly this thread has propagated, it looks as if my sentiments are shared by the majority of the home theater community.
The growth of DVD is due in large part to the on-line home theater community. Okay, ... not necessarily this specific forum, but certainly the overall influence that the global online community has afforded us for communication and networking. The death of Div-X was a direct result of this network and so will be the death of D-VHS.
The home theater community should be patient until high-definition movies are available on a disc-based format. Here is why --
===========================================
THE COLD, HARD ECONOMICS:
Studio resources are very precious. Production resources diverted to D-VHS inevitably come from somewhere. We should not tolerate the scarce investment capital of movie studios, marketing firms, and distribution companies being diverted to such a degradable and limited format. If people with HDTVs begin buying D-VHS, it removes much of the incentive for hardware manufacturers to invest in additional research and development for disc-based formats. With a competing format, HD-DVD hardware and software manufacturers would be fighting an uphill battle for an already small (but growing) high-definition home theater market. Even without a competing format, it will already be tough for HD-DVD to survive. It will be nearly impossible to grow that format and achieve market penetration if an already-established competing format has a large installed base (large, that is, as a percentage of installed HDTVs at the time of HD-DVD introduction). Furthermore, any company with a stake in D-VHS would have very little incentive to invest in HD-DVD, since this would be "robbing Peter to pay Paul." Let's face it, ... people who purchase multiple high-end players for their home theater arsenal represent a teeny-tiny portion of the overall market.
Consequently, a successful run of D-VHS could significantly delay the introduction and ultimately have dire implications for the long-term viability of high-definition DVD.
===========================================
THE BOTTOM LINE:
JVC (et al) better be poised to lose hundreds of millions of dollars on D-VHS -- just like Circuit City did so many years ago with Div-X!!!
DEATH TO TAPE! DEATH TO D-VHS!!!!!

{NOTE: If anyone feels inclined to start an Anti-Digital VHS information page (similar to our Div-X education effort), please feel free to use any or all of this editorial as part of that message.}

 

[george kaplan]

I own an HDTV. I own a vcr that I use to watch movies I rent that aren't available on dvd. I own a replay tv to record tv.

Unless the total cost of a D-VHS machine plus a tape is less than what it costs me to rent a movie, I ain't touching it, because tape is not good enough for buying.

Every person I've met, that had a HDTV set said, it blows DVD away. This product is needed for them, and that market.

We've obviously never met. I'm part of that market and I sure has hell don't need, nor do I want, this product.

 

[Steve O]

Just an observation, ...
Artisan, DreamWorks, Fox, and Universal are backing D-VHS. I'm not sure if my memory serves me correctly, but weren't at least two of those studios the original supporters of Div-X (and early enemies of Open DVD, ... until we brought them along kicking and screaming)?!
At least their marketing departments are consistent in adopting fundamentally flawed ideas.
{Someone please confirm if I'm correctly recalling who originally backed Div-X.}

 

[Will_B]

Think of it as the last vcr one would buy - since it doubles as an S-VHS, regular VHS, VHS-ET, etc. deck, it will sell a few. So their market is probably about the same as everyone who had an S-VHS deck. And we all know how popular (not) those were outside of the prosumer and professional market.

I don't view this as competition. More like serving a niche market.

 

[KeithAP]

Has anyone seen details of the copy protection mechanisms involved with this format?
The studios have been pushing for requirements that would allow them to control how HD material is recorded and replayed. From what I have read, if these requirements are implemented, virtually all current HDTVs would see no better than 480P output from a device like this through their analog component connections. Also, I believe it would allow content providers to mark HD programs as non-recordable. In other words, if HBO broadcasts Band of Brothers in hidef, and doesn't want you to record it, it is a simple matter of having the required flag set in the broadcast signal to prevent recording. Please correct me if I am wrong on any of these points.
I can't imagine this new product not having these restrictions. Add to that all the limitations of a tape format and I really can't see this being a success. However, I am sure we will see episodes 4-6 of Star Wars on this format before we see it on DVD.

 

[Bill J]

Is this the first time you guys heard of D-VHS? I ask because I heard nothing about until now and I was very shocked.

 

[Joseph Goodman]

I think you all are being a bit harsh on the format, when most of you don't know a bloody thing about it outside of the sketchy press release. A few things...

- Yes, tapes get snarled or break... in cheap, old, malfunctioning VCR's, or if they are used and abused rental tapes. With a $1000-$2000 brand-new D-VCR, how many of you are going put your DVHS pre-records through that kind of mangling?

- Since this is basically a new "format" of DVHS, with all-new players required, what makes you all so sure that there WON'T be support for multiple audio tracks? A 28.8 megabits per second rate surely has room for it.

- At least 1.85:1 films aren't likely to be presented open-matter or pan & scan this time around... I'm still cautious about scope or standard ratio films, though.

 

[LarryH]

IF the VCR were inexpensive (under $400) and were compatible with the component inputs on my present TV and IF the movies were no more than $30 each with an ironclad lifetime replacement guarantee, then, yes I would consider purchase of this system.

I certainly don't think it will last long enough in the market to justify a major outlay for the machine. Moreover, if it is optimized for HD-VHS, I expect it would have inferior performance for regular VHS, S-VHS, or VHS-ET, so HD-VHS would be its only application.

By the way, my experience with D-VHS (a Hughes DirecTV combo), has been anything but favorable. Many tapes will not play back reliably even on the machine that made them.

 

[CamiloCamacho]

I should add -- once you go to random-access, no-wear (when properly cared-for) discs, you NEVER want to go back.

I went into DVD's because of this, but with a 4% of my little collection rid off because DVD Rot, i put this in doubt.(Believe me, i take care of my collection, discs only seen twice and showed 10, without scratches, not playing after the middle of the movie).

The primary reason to have a DVD player was collectibility. But neither DVD-9, nor D-VHS give this. I will stick to DVD-5 and if everything clears up on DVD backup (ie, if it becames legally) i will purchase again DVD-9 (and convert them to the DVD-R 4.7 one layer format).

DVD-9 and DVHS = No Duration = No Sale

FMD=multiple layers=more posibility of rot = No Sale

 

[Joe Schwartz]

I totally agree that D-VHS is a temporary, stopgap format that should be superceded by HD-DVD in the years ahead. But I also think that D-VHS should be encouraged rather than vilified, for two important reasons:

1. This announcement proves that major studios are willing to sell hi-def prerecorded movies. Personally, I didn't expect to see this happen for at least 2 or 3 more years.

2. The success of HDTV depends on the availability of hi-def content, and that content is sorely lacking today. Any new source of hi-def content is a Good Thing.

 

[Mattias_ka]

I think this D-VHS thing is great!

I machine I can watch my old VHS with better quality,

I can also record LD's with great quality and with the HD-tapes it sound really good.

And too say that tapes wear out fast is not true. I have 100's and 100's of pre-recorded original EX-RENTAL tapes from the "golden age" -78 to -83 that plays perfectly.

It's true that many of todays tapes is cheap and light (my old tapes weight more than twice than those new ones) but with a GOOD tape and care you will have a failure rate as good as dvd.

 

[JohnJB]

I think this has been mentioned a few times, but even if you can get over the tape format (which I personnaly cannot) the second biggest potential issue is the cropping of everything to 1:85

I don't beleive the sort of people who currently make up the HD user base are going to be happy with 1:85 cropped Star Wars & Indy trilogies once Geoge get's his finger out and releases them on DVD with 2:35 ratio

I for one can sacrifice some resolution to avoid losing significant amounts of picture from my favourite movies and also avoid using nasty easily chewed tapes.

 

[george kaplan]

with a 4% of my little collection rid off because DVD Rot

Hmm. I have a fairly large collection (over 500 dvds) with 0% dvd rot.

Of course, I once owned over 200 lds, and had 0% laser rot, so I guess I was lucky there.

On the other hand, before that, I had a fairly small collection of vhs tapes (40 or so). And I had to replace more than half of them because of deterioration. It was when two of films that I'd already bought a second time needed replacing yet again, that I got into ld, and I am not going back to tape.

 

[Frank]

Some of us will do almost anything to get better picture quality. I'm one of them.

I'll buy them as long as they play at full resolution on my front projector with analog inputs.

However, consider that some movies are shot soft on purpose and possibly won't benefit much from this technology.

For that reason alone, I will not buy a tape until I read some reviews of image quality.

Frank

 

[Dean DeMass]

I personally will never have a part of anything VHS again. Why would I want to support another TAPE format when we could be pushing for HD-DVD? The $2000 machine may not mangle tapes like old VCR's did, but the damn thing will still have to be cleaned regularly like a VCR will, and that is enough for me not to want it. Plus, not having chapter stops and having to rewind and fast forward is so 20th century.
-Dean-