Connecting Wharfedale Crystal 2.40 - Manual is wrong?

Discussion in 'Speakers' started by safefromharm, Jan 31, 2013.

  1. safefromharm

    safefromharm Auditioning

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    [ATTACHMENT=459]IMAG0174.jpg (306k. jpg file)[/ATTACHMENT] [​IMG] Hi, and thanks for any help you can give me in bi-wiring my Wharfedale Crystal 2.40 front loudspeakers to my receiver. A manual for the speakers I found on the net suggests that I need to connect the wires from the receiver to the binding posts on the opposite ends of the speaker. (under Connecting Your Loudspeakers -Standard Connections) But that would mean I am connecting the (+) end of the wire to the LF and the (-) end of the wire to the HF. That doesnt seem right? Shouldn't I be connecting the wires to the (+) end of LF and (-) and of LF? (Please see pic to see what I mean). (1) Should I follow the manual and connect (+) and (-) ends of the wires to LF(+) and HF(-)?, [​IMG] or (2) do what looks right and connect the (+) and (-) ends of the wires to LF(+) and LF(-)? [​IMG] Thank you
     
  2. schan1269

    schan1269 HTF Expert
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    I know it sounds "backwards"...but. Connect the two red together and the two black together. Then connect your avr to "one of the red and one of the black". The jumpers will carry signal to the other binding post.
     
  3. safefromharm

    safefromharm Auditioning

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    hi schan thanks for your reply. Im guessing the 'jumpers' are the metal plates which connected the binding posts? I am bi-wiring these speakers so I have taken them off.... This is becoming more confusing then it should!
     
  4. schan1269

    schan1269 HTF Expert
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    Why are you bi-wiring? And with what?
     
  5. safefromharm

    safefromharm Auditioning

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    Bi-wiring because the plate between binding posts are lost :( I'm using a Pioneer VSX D510 edit: btw, I tried both configurations (in the original post) and they both produce sounds, but I want to connect them the proper way
     
  6. schan1269

    schan1269 HTF Expert
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    You can use normal speaker wire to create the jumpers. The easy thing is to buy a pair of banana plugs. Then use the BP to either create one end of the jumper, or put the jumpers in(and twist the nuts down) and use the BP on the end of the wire from the AVR. Makes zero difference which way you do it.
     
  7. schan1269

    schan1269 HTF Expert
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    If you "must buy something" for it to make sense... http://www.ebay.com/itm/Set-Western-Electric-Bi-Wire-Speaker-Jumper-Cable-Spade-Plug-/271145721371?pt=US_Audio_Cables_Adapters&hash=item3f218b5e1b
     
  8. safefromharm

    safefromharm Auditioning

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    that seems like a good alternative if I cant figure out how to bi-wire this properly. I have 4 speaker wires so I would ideally like to bi-wire them, the manual suggests it would give a clearer sound as well. On the receiver-side, the setup for bi-wiring is complete. The 2 (+) ends of 2 wires are going to the positive terminal, and 2 (-) end of the 2 wires to the negative terminal of the receiver. What's confusing me is what I should do with these 2 wires with respect to the speaker. I know that since (+) wire from the receiver has to go to the (+) end of the speaker and vice versa for the (-) end, but because there are 2 red and 2 black terminals on the speaker there are 2 different ways this could be done. Either I connect each of the 2 wires so that one wire goes to HF(+) / HF(-) and the other to LF(+) / LF(-) or I connect each of the 2 wires so that one wire goes to HF(+) / LF(-) and the other to LF(+) / HF(-) Which set up would be the correct way? Or am I completely confused? :( thank you again
     
  9. schan1269

    schan1269 HTF Expert
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    You are way overthinking it. If you want to "parallel bi-wire" you simply connect both reds to the single red on the AVR. Both blacks to the single black. Done. OR you put jumpers in. It really is that simple.
     
  10. safefromharm

    safefromharm Auditioning

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    Yup, that's how I have my "parallel bi-wire" set up right now where both reds on the speakers are going to a single red on the AVR and same for the black. But the thing is, the red/black terminals can be matched in two different ways. Either HF(+) / HF (-) or HF(+) Please see these two pics for the 2 different configurations Im talking about "Either I connect each of the 2 wires so that one wire goes to HF(+) / HF(-) and the other to LF(+) / LF(-)" in both setups, both red terminals on the speaker are going to a single red on AVR and the same for black terminals. Which setup is the correct one?
     
  11. safefromharm

    safefromharm Auditioning

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    please see this gallery for photos of the two different configurations I uploaded. http://postimage.org/gallery/awg05wny/2a837cf3/ "Either I connect each of the 2 wires so that one wire goes to HF(+) / HF(-) and the other to LF(+) / LF(-)" http://postimage.org/image/9e6rhg3tp/ or "I connect each of the 2 wires so that one wire goes to HF(+) / LF(-) and the other to LF(+) / HF(-)" http://postimage.org/image/wi78a174t/
     
  12. schan1269

    schan1269 HTF Expert
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    Ok, again. You are overthinking this, period. You have three choices(which none of the three are your 2nd choice). Parallel wiring. Series wiring. Jumpers. Parallel... Both reds to the single red. Both blacks to the single black. Period, simple, done. Series... Amp red to one red. That red to the other red. Red back to amp. Amp black to one black. That black to the other black. Black back to the amp. Really that simple, done, period. Jumper. Connect the reds together. Connect red to the amp. Connect blacks together. Connect black to the amp. Period, done, enjoy your speakers.
     
  13. schan1269

    schan1269 HTF Expert
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    And by the way...the the Bi-wiring in the manual is how I'm describing the "parallel bi-wire"... I can't make it much simpler, especially when there is a picture showing the one single red on the amplifier connected, with two wires(exactly like it shows in the picture) to both reds. Then you take the single black on the amp with two wires(again, exactly what the pictures shows so it can't be explained any simpler) to both blacks.
     
  14. safefromharm

    safefromharm Auditioning

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    Thanks again for your help. I'm pretty sure the point of my confusion is a different issue. I get that both reds go to the single red and both blacks to the single black. But there are 2 different ways that can be done. The manual is ambiguous in that it doesnt show which 2 poles (- and +) of the wires is from the same wire. Are they like this? [​IMG] or like this? [​IMG]
     
  15. schan1269

    schan1269 HTF Expert
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    There is no "+ - pole" in bi-wire. How is there one in the diagram? There isn't a difference. Hook them up already.
     
  16. safefromharm

    safefromharm Auditioning

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    I did haha I tried both ways as shown in post 10 and they both work. But there is a sinking feeling that one of the configuration is not the proper way. I have 2 lengths of wires to connect a speaker to an AVR, and each length of wire is made up on 2 different 'strands', one being a positive, the other negative. If I connect the positive (red) strand of one of the wires to the speaker, where should the remaining negative (black) strand go into? I have 2 black terminals on the speaker. The HF(-) or LF(-)? Or does it not matter? or am I not making any sense :(
     
  17. schan1269

    schan1269 HTF Expert
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    You can show the "speaker end" all you want. Doesn't show what you've done with the other(amp) end. I give up. You can't get any simpler than using jumpers or bi-wire. Exactly how you are applying 100% thought to something that takes 2%, I haven't got the slightest clue whatsoever. Somebody else want to bang their head on this one?
     
  18. Brainwasher

    Brainwasher Stunt Coordinator

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    Did the OP miss this post? Just do what he says here and you win. You are making something simple, really difficult.
     
  19. Al.Anderson

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    I don't see how the manual is ambiguous at all, it's telling you to do exactly what Sam is saying. You have two choices, a real bi-wire, which means wire it up as the manual has it. Most people think this just benefits the wire manufacturer, since it makes you buy more wire with no sonic benefit. If you do it this way you want to keep each wire connected to a common "filter". So one wire would be connected to the High filter (HF) and one to the low filter (LF). Again, most people thing this is sonic voodoo. The manufacturers include the option because they don't want to lose a sale to someone who is a believer, not because it makes any sense. Which leads to option-2 ... Or run one wire and jump it, like Sam first suggested.
     
  20. safefromharm

    safefromharm Auditioning

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    Thanks all for your replies, I've decided to use a jumper and single-wire it. After doing more research I've found that electrically, it shouldn't matter whether the wire terminates at HF or LF (because the jumper will carry the signal to either HF or LF). But some posts in audiophile websites (hydrogenaudio) suggests it can make a difference to the sound quality depending on the speakers. Moreover, some also suggest terminating the + end of the wire to the HF and the - end of the wire to the LF or vice versa as this might give a better sound. This clears things up a lot for me :) I've tried all the above options and landed on single-wiring to the HF, sounds great, a receiver + separate speakers are a huge improvement over the cheap PC speakers I was using.
     

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