Concerning "Splitting" TV Series DVD sets (2 Viewers)

[Carlos Garcia]

Another thing...I wonder just how many people will buy season 2 part 1, not realizing the season has been divided into 2 sets? This may not sound as crazy as it seems. I'm sure most people expect season sets to come in complete season sets. I'm sure alot of people will buy season 2 set 1, bring it home and when realizing it's only half the episodes, either not buy set 2, or return set 1 for their money back. Just a bad marketing gimmick for everyone.

 

[Joe Karlosi]

Hopefully, the words VOLUME ONE or PART ONE will be fairly visible on the front cover.

 

[Carlos Garcia]

Believe me, with alot of people that will STILL confuse them. Their thinking may be something like "Oh, I thought that meant that season 2 will be volume 1 and season 3 will be volume 2".

 

[Joe Karlosi]

Let's just enjoy the show

 

[WillG]

I can see the mentality about this in certain capacities. There was another thread on LIS that Peter Staddon posted in and mentioned part of the problem was that they were having trouble geting stores to stock the complete first season of LIS. I can vouch for this. There are a lot of fringe shows out there that you would be hard pressed to find on a store shelf. I've had trouble finding some myself. I do agree with the poster who said it is nice to have a whole season in one package, but if this strategy will ensure the release of fringe shows, then I'll have to accept it (as long as it does not become a blatant price gouging situation). Now if the studios start doing this with guaranteed sellers like "The Simpsons" or "Friends" for example, then this practice is worthy of a real legitamate complaint.

 

[Jason Harbaugh]

Sex and the City wasn't a guaranteed seller? I seem to recall seeing the early seasons high up on most sales charts. This practice is already worthy of a real legitamate complaint IMO.

 

[Vincent Matis]

For whatever reason, the season sets are (almost) always split in two in France (Buffy, Angel, West Wing, Ally McBeal, B5, ...) but are released as a complete season in the rest of Europe, go figure !

I would hate to see complete season set dissappear !

 

[Dan Rudolph]

Mark, I must say I don't get your arguement? You're upset that split seasons may cost slightly more than whole ones, so you order from Europe, which costs more still plus you get the loss of quality from having to convert them to NTSC for viewing.

 

[WillG]

Some earlier posts point out that there was a semi-legatimate reason for SATC being released in two parts. I guess the season on HBO was split because of Sarah Jessica Parker's pregnancy. I don't think doing the DVD like that was the greatest decision, but at least it was not an out of the blue type thing.

 

[Terry H]

That may well have been the reason. What was the reason for charging the MSRP of a full season? I'm thankful I care nothing for this series but I suspect this is only the beginning. The studios better be careful or the result of their manipulations may be the opposite of what they hope.

 

[Casey Trowbridg]

I don't buy a lot of hour long programs, 24 is the only one I own as of now.

I don't have a big problem with the split set concept if done correctly. I don't mind 2 volumes of season 6 of Sex and the City...but I do mind that the price is the same as it was for previously complete season sets...of course, I hated the pricing on season 5 as well so I've been down this road.

I really doubt that this will start to become a trend with half hour shows. Unless those half hour shows have 60 episode seasons like was mentioned earlier then it makes complete sense again.


That's nice, but just because the internet croud commits itself to this idea doesn't mean that the public in general is going to feel the same. The people that post on those websites are the most vocal fans, but they're far from a majority of the buying public, plus how many of those posters are making the same posts across multiple sites. If I'm fox, a discussion on a fan site doesn't worry me all that much, because while it is a vocal one it is still a minority.

For some of these hour shows, I'd rather pay say $25 now and $25 more a few months from now than paying $50 now. I could use the $25 I didn't have to spend on the complete season of a show and spend it on another DVD I want, maybe even from the same studio.

Studios are in the business of making money, there is no secret or question about it. The public is not entitled or owed any show on DVD, they're all done to make money.

As for Image, and the Dick Van Dyke Show, I believe I read even here at HTF that in order to get the rights to the Dick Van Dyke Show's distribution, Image had to commit itself for all 5 seasons of the show. So, even if the first 2 hadn't sold well, they would've been contractually obligated for the other 3, I'm not sure that's the case but I am sure I read that somewhere. Plus, Image is a smaller company and can take a risk like that, Fox has so many different titles and stuff that they can't commit to all these seasons at once.

 

[Michael Reuben]

Regarding Sex and the City: The information that has been posted in this thread is incorrect.

I'm not going to guess at the reason for splitting season 6 into two sets, but it had nothing to do with Sarah Jessica Parker's pregnancy. The pregnancy occurred during the filming of season 5 and is the reason why that season is only 8 episodes. Parker had already given birth when season 6 started filming.

Season 6 was longer -- by 2 episodes -- than any previous season, but it was not the first season to be broadcast in two parts. Season 4 was shown with 12 episodes in the summer of 2001 and 6 more episodes in early 2002. I remember this well, because the last 6 episodes were shot before 9/11, and there were stories about the creators reviewing them carefully to make sure they would still play as intended given the huge change in the city's mood. (As far as I know, the only alteration was in the opening title sequence.)

Splitting season 6 into two parts makes sense dramatically, because the final 8 episodes were written as a single arc to wind up the series. In that sense, you could almost look at season 6 as two shorter seasons combined. Part 1 was the same length as season 1, and part 2 was the same length as season 5.

All in all, it's probably a unique phenomenon and not a good example for identifying trends.

M.

 

[Joe Karlosi]

Indeed. And it's certainly better than spending what we used to for said TV show eps on inferior individual VHS tapes -- over $400 total for a complete season!

 

[Chris Wagner]

In all reference to Lost in Space, the only way to make this work is if Fox re-packages season 1 as a split season.
Just because season 2 is split doesn't make it any easier for someone to shell out $60 for season 1.
Most buyers of season 2 will have already bought season 1.
There are always those that hold out to see if subsequent season are released before making a commitment, but still intended to buy them split or not.
So, now you have a few diehards that are planning a boycott.
I feel this is a bad test case for reasons i've mentioned.

I've already purchased season 1 and eagerly await the rest.
As long as the packaging stays consistant and price works out (which it seems to be) i'm ok with it, not particularly happy, but ok.

I repeat, it's not ideal to test this "split-season" thing in the middle of a series.

 

[Carlos Garcia]

I've also posted this on the Mary Tyler Moore Show thread, but feel it also applies here...Someone please explain to me why Fox claims Lost In Space season 1 didn't make as much money as they expected, so they decide to release season 2 as 2 separate sets, while actually maintaining the same cost (season 2 part 1 and 2 combined) as season 1 to customers? Doesn't it cost the studios more to produce 2 separate sets (packaging, distributing and publicizing) than it would if they were simply to release a complete (bare bones) season 2 set? I just don't understand studio logic.

 

[Mark Johnston]

Nobody here is arguing that studios shouldn't try to make money, since they are obviously in the business of selling product and making profit.

The point that MANY here still seem to be missing is that a studio should NOT try to simply increase profits by putting out a less complete and inferior product, and then try to mislead the public with their less than honest explanations for doing so. To paraphrase a certain studio executive's logic: "Sorry, but the only way to keep the "Lost In Space" releases coming is to split up the set" BULL----! The absolute ONLY reason that they split the set, was to make even MORE money from the people who bought the First Season set. The amount of money they made from the First Season (and it WAS marginally profitable), was not good enough for them. They were "dissappointed by the sales", because they are just GREEDY corporate execs who care very little about their consumers, except for the amount of money they can get out of them.

Everybody keeps repeating that "LIS Season 2 - Part One" will be just half the price of the First Season. It would appear on the surface of this story that this is true, due to the published MSRP being exactly half that of the published MSRP for Season One. What the studios don't tell you, and what I informed you of before, is that MSRP has absolutely nothing to do with the COST of the unit to the retailer, which has been slightly increased to MORE than half that of the COST of the Season One set. Obviously the retailer, in an effort to make profit himself, will pass that increase along to the consumer by slightly increasing the RETAIL price as well. True, it will only be a few dollars, hardly even noticeable right? But multiply that $2-4 increase by 50,000 to 100,000 units and you will see that FOX (as well as other studios already doing this), will make substantially more profit.

Here is my estimation of how all this went down....

STUDIO EXEC #1: "Hey guys, we just got the numbers on "Lost in Space: Season One"".

STUDIO EXEC #2: "What's "Lost Space?"

STUDIO EXEC #3: "No, it's "Lost IN Space"". "You know, that campy space show that was on in the '70's"

STUDIO EXEC #1: "Actually, it was on in the 60's, I think."

STUDIO EXEC #2: "Oh yeah, that's the Black and White show right?"

STUDIO EXEC #3: "Yeah, that's the one."

STUDIO EXEC #1: "Well we got the preliminary numbers back, and they're less than what we had hoped..."

STUDIO EXEC #3: "How'd it do?"

STUDIO EXEC #1: "Well our projection was 100,000 units, but we only sold 70,000"

STUDIO EXEC #2: "Well they've only been selling a month right?"

STUDIO EXEC #3: "True, but we all know how much sales drop off after the first few weeks, cuz nobody really buys them after that."

STUDIO EXEC #2: "Oh yeah,... right."

STUDIO EXEC #1: "Anyway, we've got to figure out a way to increase profits if we are to release the remaining 2 seasons of the show, or otherwise we might have another "Mary Tyler Moore" situation..."

STUDIO EXEC #3: "What a stinker THAT one was!"

STUDIO EXEC #2: "What was the profit margin for "Lost in Space"?"

STUDIO EXEC #1: "Oh, not bad, - about 2 million, but we SHOULD be able to double that with some creative thinking..." "Any ideas?"

STUDIO EXEC #2: "I know!" "Let's SPLIT the second season into 2 parts, increase each part's COST a few bucks, and then that way it will confuse people into thinking that we dropped the price on Season 2 to half of what it was for Season 1." "A LOT more people will buy it if they think Season 2 has been marked down by 50%, so we should sell at least twice the number of units that Season 1 sold" "By the time people realize that it's only half a season, they'll be angry and impatient for Part 2, making it a sure seller!" "And with the per unit COST increase we'll make on each split set, it will provide us much more profit, over what we made on Season One."

STUDIO EXEC #3: "Great idea, but just as a precaution, let's make the MSRP EXACTLY half that of the "Complete First Season", so as not to tip our hand."

STUDIO EXEC #1: "Exactly, and we should also release Part 2 within a couple of months of Part 1, so we don't alienate the serious fans."

STUDIO EXEC #3: "Yeah, those guys are NUTS!"

STUDIO EXEC #1: "Yeah, ..."Live Long, and Prosper.."

STUDIO EXEC #2: "Oh, and it might not be a bad idea to have the VP come down and post something on one of the forums as a good Public Relations move."

STUDIO EXEC #1: "Oh, yeah... a nice PERSONAL touch."

STUDIO EXEC #3: "Yeah, we don't want to piss-off the fans!"

STUDIO EXEC #2: "NERDS!"

STUDIO EXEC #1: "Hey, if this works, we could do the same for the rest of our shows, and increase profits up to 20%!"

STUDIO EXEC #3: "Yeah, but won't the fans question the reason for splitting up the sets, all of a sudden?"

STUDIO EXEC #1: "Nah, they're just so happy to be getting the show at all, that they won't care what form it takes."

STUDIO EXEC #2: "Hey, let's make it 4 Parts!"

STUDIO EXEC #1: "Now, let's not get carried away here, Einstein."

STUDIO EXEC #2: (laughing)

STUDIO EXEC #3: "What about Region Two?"

STUDIO EXEC #1: "Oh, we'll keep it as a Complete Season set for them, of course." "The Brits are a little too savvy to go for a "Split" set, since the release started as a complete one."

STUDIO EXEC #3: "You're not worried that the Region One consumers will question the "split" as well...?"

STUDIO EXEC #1: "Maybe a few smart ones will." "So hey, let's do a press release stating that the first season sold like shit, and then that should satisfy any questions they have."

STUDIO EXEC #2: "Yeah, those fans are so whacked, that they won't want to do anything to "rock the boat", and risk losing their precious "Star Track!"

STUDIO EXEC #3: "Lost In Space, dude."

STUDIO EXEC #2: "Oh, yeah..."

STUDIO EXEC #1: (to EXEC #2)"Oh, by the way, Happy 25th Birthday!



I guarantee you, that some similar version of this kind of conversation went down at FOX, and is most likely going on at all the rest of the studios. The question is, what are we going to do about it???

I know what I'm going to do. I'm not going to purchase ANY "split" set, and play into their greedy little hands. Anyone with me?

-Mark

 

[Dan Rudolph]

So what you're saying is that theoretically, both halves of sesons 2 will sell for more combined than season one did, and the fact people have already demonstrated this isn't actually the case is irrelevant?

 

[Rob Gardiner]

Mark,

All this complaining is over a price increase of $2-4? How long does it take you to write and edit these manifestoes? Isn't your TIME worth more than that?

You've repeatedly insinuated that our friend and fellow poster Peter Staddon has been less than honest. But his information comes from Fox itself, which is where he makes his living. Your information comes from ? ? ??? where exactly?????

 

[Mark Johnston]

Yes Dan, that is EXACTLY what I am saying! Just because someone got a copy preordered from Deep Discount DVD, doesn't mean that the other retailers will be that selfless.

Let's just wait and see what the "mainstream" retailers sell the split set for...

BestBuy, Walmart, Sam Goody/Suncoast, Circuit City, Borders, and Barnes and Noble (to just name a few), will most definitely pass along a SLIGHT increase of the "split" set.
Since they obviously need to make money too, then they will have no choice, since the Season 2: Part One split set will be slightly more for them to order from FOX. What do you think, that they are just going to eat that COST increase to them. I'm not talking about a large increase here people, just 2-4 dollars per split set.

For example, If BestBuy originally sold the "Complete First Season" for $75 RETAIL (at a $40 COST to them from FOX), then almost certainly the split set will be somewhere around $40.00 RETAIL (at around a $25 COST to them from FOX). These numbers are all just general estimations I am using to make an example, but you get the drift. Half of $75 is NOT $40, it's $37.50! The Two-Dollar-and-50-cent retail price increase is not the main point, the point is that we are getting an inferior product here (nobody REQUESTED "split" sets), and paying more money for it, in comparison to the Price/Value that we originally paid for "Season One" (Which in most cases, divided in half, would be less expensive than the Season 2 split set we are going to get). So add both Season 2 split sets together and (in the example used above) you get a total RETAIL price of $80, even though we only paid $75 for the "Complete First Season". As I have already stated, I would have preferred that FOX just charge us the increase and release the "Complete Second Season" (as they are in R2), for the 80 bucks. But I guess FOX did not think that many of the other consumers would see it that way. Especially when they know a good number of people will mistakenly think that the split set is a "Complete Season" release, especially since the first season was done that way. Some people really don't examine packaging that well, and when they realize that it isn't just marked down by 50% from the First Season's price, they will then also want to own Part 2 so that they will have the complete set of episode from Season 2 (or so the studios hope...).

I think that People are smarter that what studios give them credit for. I also think that this "experiment" by FOX will fail miserably (without any help from me). And finally, I think that because of this ill-fated decision (even though FOX knows the overwhelming MAJORITY of consumers PREFER "complete-season sets") we probably won't get Season 3, which is my absolute favorite.

Unless we, of course, can change their minds...

What do you think?

-Mark

 

[Glenn Overholt]

I think that what a lot of people here have been wanting to say is that the retailers have a mark-up from their cost to the selling price. Thus: cost times X% = selling price.

It would be interesting to copy the web page with the MSRP's for parts one and two of a show and take it in to a retailer that has part two at $4. higher, and ask them to explain why part two costs more.

Glenn