COIN: Anyone considering it? (1 Viewer)

[Kevin Collins]

PLASTC: uh huh. Watched the video. Will believe it when I see it.

Same critique: people who spend $155 on credit card gadgets have Apple Pay or Android whatever. And in three years, digital payments will be standard on free-with-contract phones. And no one will pay $100 for a credit card dingus.

I don't know how fast the adoption curve will be for that. Until there is one hardware and software standard, mobile payment is going to have it's challenges. Many merchants want to do their own mobile payments platform. Merchants also have to purchase a special NFC terminal to participate. Everyone is eventually going to be financially motivated to do EMV so that will become ubiquitous. Also, the price will come down. I think a lot of folks would pay $25 to have a card that eliminated all their CC#'s or MC or VISA buys that startup out.

 

[DaveF]

Apple Pay requires NFC terminal and vendor participation. And these terminals are out there at mundane places like McDonalds and Panera Bread. There's nothing non-standard about it. It's piggy backing on new credit card standards that should be universal in a few years.

At $25, I'd consider PLASTC, if it's real. But my guess is that it has to be under $5 to have any hope of garnering mass adoption. We're just speculating here, so maybe I'm too pessimistic.

But I really think we're at the start of a significant change from plastic in our wallet to NFC on our mobile device. PLASTC and its ilk are too late.

They can likely have a viable business selling these to a niche market. Even blackberry is still selling phones.

But physical credit card replacement doesn't seem like a long-term growth market.

 

[DaveF]

If you don't mind I'm curious about this bit:
"Second, I bought this thing to eliminate the need for me to carry all the credit cards in my wallet. It just dawned on my that I will still need my credit cards to do online orders when I am on the road -- assuming I leave all my CC's at home. Ummm... I buy over 50% of my stuff on the road."

Why doesn't COIN work for shopping away from home?

I think I need my original AMEX for checking into hotels on business travel. But otherwise, I'd think COIN would work fine. On the road. And for online shopping, well, I use my SplashID records and don't need a credit card.

 

[DaveF]

Editing not working for me...
If COIN saves the 3-digit "security" code, it should work for online / away from home shopping.

 

[Kevin Collins]

Editing not working for me...
If COIN saves the 3-digit "security" code, it should work for online / away from home shopping.

I'm talking about shopping on the Internet when I am not at home. I use LastPass, but that doesn't save my credit card #'s -- or at least I have never tried to use it in that fashion.

 

[Kevin Collins]

Apple Pay requires NFC terminal and vendor participation. And these terminals are out there at mundane places like McDonalds and Panera Bread. There's nothing non-standard about it. It's piggy backing on new credit card standards that should be universal in a few years.

I wasn't clear on this.... What I didn't articulate was the combination of the NFC terminal AND the underlying payments platform network like Apple Pay. Both have to exist and there there needs to be a financial motivator for merchants to participate. Even with the growing population of Apple iPhones that are Apple Pay enabled, the growth rate for Apple Pay has been anemic. Google has had their own payment platform for some time and even though they outnumber Apple iPhone users, they have a fraction of that anemic market. The reason that Apple is outperforming Google in electronics payments is because iPhone owners represent the section of the population that spends the most money with their devices -- a reason why apps typically come out first on iOS -- because that is where the $ is.


I'm confident there is going to be a change -- at some point. The turning point will be the long tail of users switching. We are in early years of both these payment options and it will be years before it even starts to hit mainstream for either option. In the meantime there are lots of VC's getting behind the credit card option that both PlastC and COIN are doing.


Another way of looking at it is would be would I pay $25 to get a CC that reduces my wallet or $1K for my iPhone 6+ without a contract?


It's too early to say. Right now I'm still evaluating COIN, the fact that it worked today without an issue was an important first step. If it keeps working I will be down to just that credit card and one backup in case the battery fails on the COIN...

 

[Moe Dickstein]

Doesn't the coin app show you all the full numbers and cvv for the cards? If not it's a simple matter to either snap photos of the front and back of your cards or make a note in he notes app with the info for when you travel

 

[Kevin Collins]

Doesn't the coin app show you all the full numbers and cvv for the cards? If not it's a simple matter to either snap photos of the front and back of your cards or make a note in he notes app with the info for when you travel

No, reference the pictures of the card. You only see what is displayed. You push the button to rotate through cards. Yes, I could take pictures, but that kind of defeats the purpose of convenience...

 

[Kevin Collins]

Day #2. Failure. I tried the COIN at one of those swipe terminals to pay for lunch @ work. Keep getting authorization failed. Tried many different cards. Sigh...

 

[Moe Dickstein]

Mean the coin app on the phone not the coin card itself.

 

[Kevin Collins]

Mean the coin app on the phone not the coin card itself.

Yes, it shows me the full numbers, but that still doesn't help me. I have no idea what VISA it is that I would want to use unless I memorize the last four digits. I have three VISA's in my COIN. Which one is Alaska Air? Which one is US Bank?


Today I used it at lunch. The cashier didn't know what to do with it. I told her it was a credit card. She showed it to the other cashier. She wound up swiping it about 10 times before it took. Seems like the magnetic stripe isn't putting out enough signal...


So far I would NOT recommend people purchase this...

 

[Moe Dickstein]

yeah I wouldn't buy it but I ordered it forever ago and at this point I might just take it as a curiosity. Not having high hopes.


I just took pictures of all my cards front and back and put them in a hidden album so when i want to online order i don't have to go get my wallet. Apple Pay is just what i want and hopefully it becomes wider spread soon

 

[Moe Dickstein]

Too late. My shipping notice just came. We'll see how this novelty works. I do have some cards with hit or miss strips so I can add them to this new car with a hit and miss strip

 

[DaveF]

I'm talking about shopping on the Internet when I am not at home. I use LastPass, but that doesn't save my credit card #'s -- or at least I have never tried to use it in that fashion.

I use SplashID, which handles Credit Cards well. I've looked at 1Password, which I think can do the same. I've never tried LastPass. if you want to simplify online shopping, at home or on the road, I recommend a robust data manager. Not having to get my wallet every time I order something is convenient.

 

[DaveF]

I wasn't clear on this.... What I didn't articulate was the combination of the NFC terminal AND the underlying payments platform network like Apple Pay. Both have to exist and there there needs to be a financial motivator for merchants to participate. Even with the growing population of Apple iPhones that are Apple Pay enabled, the growth rate for Apple Pay has been anemic. Google has had their own payment platform for some time and even though they outnumber Apple iPhone users, they have a fraction of that anemic market. The reason that Apple is outperforming Google in electronics payments is because iPhone owners represent the section of the population that spends the most money with their devices -- a reason why apps typically come out first on iOS -- because that is where the $ is.

I'm confident there is going to be a change -- at some point. The turning point will be the long tail of users switching. We are in early years of both these payment options and it will be years before it even starts to hit mainstream for either option. In the meantime there are lots of VC's getting behind the credit card option that both PlastC and COIN are doing.

Another way of looking at it is would be would I pay $25 to get a CC that reduces my wallet or $1K for my iPhone 6+ without a contract?

Apple Pay is widely, but not universally available. But I bet it will be at every retail store in two years. It's on the upswing. It only takes new Credit Card terminals. And my understanding is these are going to be rolled out as a matter of course due to new Credit Card rules taking effect this Fall. (Stores must take Chip + PIN or the store, not the CC company, will bear the burden of fraud. These new terminals seem to also include NFC. So, it may be fait accompli in a year. But I admit I've not looked at the details.)

So for a person, like you or me who enjoys and buys gadgets, smartphone payments should be an easy option next year.

Now, for buying and mass market appeal: I don't disagree that people might prefer a $25 universal credit card device over a $1000 smartphone that doesn't work anywhere.

But that's not the case.

It's a $155 credit card device that does one thing poorly compared to a $199 (on-contract) smartphone that does everything well, and is the clear future for credit-card purchases.


I don't begrudge anyone their COIN. I was pretty interested a year ago when I first heard about it. I thought it could be great. I'm sure they can succeed as a niche business for a while (0.01% of the US population at $155 is $4.6M).

But a year went by. Apple Pay came out. The Apple Watch came out! The credit card gadget is $155. It's an evolutionary dead end. They'll probably pivot and change their business strategy or hope to get bought out by a big tech firm. But I expect to see these gadgets disappear in three years.

 

[Kevin Collins]

And my understanding is these are going to be rolled out as a matter of course due to new Credit Card rules taking effect this Fall. (Stores must take Chip + PIN or the store, not the CC company, will bear the burden of fraud. These new terminals seem to also include NFC. So, it may be fait accompli in a year. But I admit I've not looked at the details.)

That's not entirely correct. On 10/15 the financial responsibility will fall on who doesn't have EVM capability. If a merchant does have a device that can take an EVM card, then they are financially responsible if there is fraud. If the consumer is using a CC that does not have EVM, then the financial responsibility falls on the financial institution. This is what I meant above that there are financial incentives to be EVM compliant.

 

[DaveF]

Yes, it shows me the full numbers, but that still doesn't help me. I have no idea what VISA it is that I would want to use unless I memorize the last four digits. I have three VISA's in my COIN. Which one is Alaska Air? Which one is US Bank?

Today I used it at lunch. The cashier didn't know what to do with it. I told her it was a credit card. She showed it to the other cashier. She wound up swiping it about 10 times before it took. Seems like the magnetic stripe isn't putting out enough signal...

So far I would NOT recommend people purchase this...

For all my comments, I'm appreciative you're trying it out telling us about it. 18 months after first hearing about COIN, it's a bummer it's poorly designed and doesn't work well.

 

[Kevin Collins]

Well, I wanted to tell you my Friday experience. We have cafe's in our buildings and I had an early meeting and bought a scone. I gave the COIN and he looked at it oddly. He tried swiping it (same type of terminal as the other place that failed in a different location) and it failed. So, on campus with those terminals and am batting 1 for 3. He just gave me the scone for free! I will have to try that at the audio store next time...


Then I went to lunch with a friend at a restaurant. The COIN worked fine there and the staff didn't bat an eye. I was telling my friend about COIN and how it didn't work with my Target Card (which is going away anyways to a real CC) and my issues with not having a picture of the card somewhere to know which was which. I was talking about the AMEX card and he pointed out to me that I wouldn't be able to use COIN anyways by itself as it wouldn't have my Costco membership on the back. So, I would wind up carrying my COIN card (if it works @ Costco) and my membership card. Never thought of that before either


Then I went to the post office to use the self-service machine. It would have NOTHING to do with the COIN card, but those post office machines are finicky even on my regular CC's.


So, I have used it 5 times and it has worked 2 of the 5 times. I'm traveling for vacation (EPIC trip with my oldest son) and will give it a go on the trip also. I have my CC with me also. I haven't had time to complain to COIN, but IMO it is close to an epic failure. I guess that what you get for being an early adopter. All of the HD DVD fans also found out what it was like to be an early adopter -- at least HD DVD worked more than 50% of the time...


I will probably give PLASTC a go when it actually ships and I read reviews. I would love to just have my Apple Pay and a universal electronic credit card.

 

[Clinton McClure]

COIN was a brilliant idea a year ago. Now I could care less. I'm looking forward to getting an iPhone 6s this fall and using ApplePay. I can't do that with my current 5s.

 

[Kevin Collins]

Well today was a much better day. I hit 100% across five different terminals in three different states! Seems like the terminals at work and the USPS terminal are the two that have failed to work. Some people look at it weird but they all try it without giving me grief as the last four and exp. date are lit up. So, a little happier after today. I might as well keep trying it since I own it...