Can The Lakers Be Beat??(Official 3-Peat Thread) (1 Viewer)

[Jefe Noche]

Robert Horry is not of this world!!!!!

What an amazing game, and last second shot by the "alien". The Lakers overcome horrid officiating, unconscience shooting by the Kings, and "the basketball gods" to win game 4.

Have you ever seen more balls go in and out for one team, or more balls roll in for the other? That, coupled with ridiculous officiating, made it look like the Kings were destined to un-seat the Champs. Somehow, the Lake-show pulled this one out of their ASS!!!!!!!

Shaq hits 6 free throws down the stretch, and Horry hits 3 3-pointers. You've got to be kidding me!!!!! I almost went through the roof.

I highly doubt the Kings will overcome this. They are just too fragile mentally.

.....Lakers in 6

 

[Brian Perry]

What an unbelievable finish! Talk about coming back from the dead.

 

[Howard Williams]

Re: Lakers 100 Kings 99

ABSOLUTELY INCREDIBLE !!!

Hey Vlade......Nice pass/assist !

 

[Carlo_M]

Tim,
I'll give the Kings players that I respect credit: Webber I've followed since his college days (and the infamous TO) - he is a heck of a talent. Watched Bibby frustrate my alma mater UCLA for two years. And the European players sure can drain outside shots.
But I just can't stand Floppy Divac. No one that big should be going down as fast as a dollar whore.
Oh, and Doug Christie's "Tight Defense" is actually fouling that isn't called. The player with the ball is entitled his space and Christie consistently is in the other player's jersey. Okay, and the two fingered "Iron Man" salute annoys me too. That's why Bevetta called him for blocking when Kobe's elbow hit his nose. You could tell Bevetta wanted to send a message to back off defensively and made up his mind to call the next contact between Christie and Kobe...it just ended being Christie's nose to Kobe's elbow.
I'll be happy for Bibby and Webber if the Kings do end up winning. But I think it would be a crime for Floppy to get a ring. And I've been consistent about my feelings for him...I've hated him since he was a Laker.

 

[Carlo_M]

Regarding today's finish:
My friends and I all jumped off the couch BEFORE the shot went in. When it bounced out of the key and we saw #5 yellow step in and pick it up, we KNEW it was in.
Horry has made a recent career sinking game winning 3 pointers (in the last four playoff series, in fact, dating back to last year's NBA finals). He can be 1-8 in the first three quarters, he'll shoot better than 75% in the fourth, and be nearly automatic at the end of the game. Don't know why. Just is. Money during crunch time.
Hopefully the Lakers have figured out what it takes to beat the Kings. Sac basically embarrassed the Lakers for five quarters (4 last game + 1st quarter today) before the Lakers realized that you don't try to "keep up scoring" with Sacramento, you play solid defense and let the offense come to you. Don't try to trade baskets. Make them miss by playing solid D. I don't know why fisher consistently leaves his man (Bibby, Jackson, and Christie sometimes) to double down on Divac. Shaq can handle Vlade in the post! Don't leave the shooters open! Early in the first I was screaming for Kobe to guard Bibby. About 4 minutes later Walton suggested it, prompting my friends to look at me. And then another few minutes and the switch happened and Kobe helped control Bibby.
Now we go back north, to a place the Lakers don't fear, but where the Kings excel. And since the Kings have broken the Staples jinx (hadn't won a playoff game there before last game) they have to be confident and rejuvenated. This reminds me of the Lakers Portland series two years ago, where LA came back from 15 down in the 4th quarter of the 7th game to win it. Hopefully it won't come to that, but the outcome will be the same.

 

[Tim Abbott]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned Samaki Walker's "buzzer beater" just before half-time. Do you think that will be enough to vote instant replay (only for end of quarter shots) in for next year?
I think both conference finals have already offered people far more than they thought they would get out of either series. Robert Horry has veins of ice. Gotta give him some love for that.
Carlo -- RE: Kings players.....well said. I think that its interesting that a player can develop a reputation for being a defensive stopper (ala Doug Christie), but all they do is hand check and body the offensive player off their game. For most players, that would be a real quick foul. With some players its just exceptional defense. How exactly does one acquire this reputation
Is anyone else (besides NBC) craving a Celtics-Lakers final???

 

[Dan Keefe]

Yesterday's game was unbelievable!! I say that only because i am a Lakers fan. I can't imagine what was going through the heads of both Sacramento fans and players when Horry's shot fell. To let a 24 point lead slip like that can't be good for morale, even if they did get the split. I thought the game was over when Shaq went to the line, but then he sank both of them. I honestly feel Kobe has been hampered by the food poisoning. He was 100% in game 1 and the Lakers dominated, he hasn't played well consistently since. I said earlier in this thread that whomever wins this series probably ends up winning the title. Well, these two teams sure are playing like its the finals...GO LAKERS!

dan

 

[Carlo_M]

You know, they do have some sort of instant replay already in place. Remember how Kobe's shot was waved off after instant replay earlier this season?

When Samaki's shot went in (and yes, TV instant replay showed it was late) I didn't see anyone from the Kings approach an official and dispute the call. I think everyone thought it was good, and the Kings thought they had the game in hand so why get in the ref's face, or something like that. Replay on last second shots would be okay, though, just not on in-game plays or fouls.

But I'm also tired of people who say that if a shot earlier in the game wouldn't have counted, so-n-so would have lost. You can't say that at all. You can't alter a little piece of history and predict the future based on it. Having that basket waived off may have done something like infuriate the Lakers into a route, or beat them into submission and the Kings win by 20+. We can't know. The only shot that can truly alter the outcome of a game decidedly is the last-second shot at the end of a game to win/lose it.

 

[JasonK]

I was watching the game with a buddy and I told him:

If I'm the Kings, I don't leave Kobe, and I don't let Big Shot Rob take a 3.

As soon as the ball was tapped into Rob's hands, my heart sank...then *swish*...game over.

I have nothing but respect for Horry, who's shaping up to be an all-time great clutch shooter.

I'm rooting for the Kings, and I can't see them folding after that loss. They went to L.A. to get a split, so mission accomplished. They've regained home-court, so provided they take care of business tomorrow, they get 2 more chances at LA-LA. I am really looking forward to the game tomorrow.

However, the 2nd half of Sunday's game showed how the Kings miss Peja. Granted, the Kings could't rebound worth a darn in the 2nd half, but with Kobe shadowing Bibby, they need Peja back post-haste to start stretching LA's defense out.

That way, if LA keeps Kobe on Bibby, the ball can be kicked out to Peja or Christie, dumped inside to the Kings 'bigs' and tossed back out for a 3.

Just my uneducated 2 pennies.

 

[Mike Broadman]

I really don't understand why people are so hard on Divac, especially for this last game. His performance was outstanding, and he deserves kudos for playing so well against Shaq alone. His accidental tip to Horry was coincidental- what was he supposed to do, let a Laker get a layup?

The 4th quarter is exactly the reason why I have felt and still feel that the Lakers are not going to be beat. They should have lost, but they won. How can you defeat that?

And let's not forget the East- what a nail biter today! The Nets scared me when they started committing those turnovers, but they held on for a win in Boston and tied the series up. With home court advantage and their morale back up, watch out Celtics!

 

[Howard Williams]

Putting Kobe on Bibby is a double edged sword. Kobe is expending so much energy on defense, his offensive has suffered measurable. Once again Phil shows his coaching wisdom by putting Kobe on Bibby for small periods of time instead of the whole game. Kobe's weakened condition sure isn't helping either.

As far as Sac, I've seen more points scored then they did in the first half of game #4 but I have never ever seen better ball movement and crisper cleaner passes for an entire half. It looked so easy I think I could've score a few jumpers. It was amazing.

Officiating:

The NBA biggest concerns should be the rules and officiating. They need to get their stuff together or they're gonna ruin this game. You know why basketball ranks among America's favorite sports to watch? Because the action is fast and continuous compared to football and baseball. The ball is in play much more than it's competition. These days it's kinda rare if you see 4 changes of possession without a foul call. Fouls stop the game and ruin that non-stop action that so many fans enjoy.

Since the Detroit Pistons won back to back championships, defense, "The Jordan Rules" a.k.a "no lay ups" mentality has really changed the game. Basketball has and should emphasize, glorify and reward speed, quickness, precision and finesse. Power and banging is for football and hockey. I'm a huge Shaq fan but when I see him dribble and pound into an opponent that was standing still with their hands straight up and Shaq sends them flying, even I say "Yuck, that's bull". The only reason I don't mind when Shaq gets away with those is that he is hacked on almost every possession and refs don't give him the call anywhere near as much as they should. If the refs don't call it, the players hack him even more. I don't blame em, I would too. Shaq gets hacked or pushed 75% of the time he touches the ball.

Hacking is by far the number one foul that is not called enough. Hacking in basketball is kinda like holding in football. It occurs on almost every single play but if they call it all the time, the games will last 8 hours and no one would watch.

OK, I'm ranting. I'll stop for now.

 

[Carlo_M]

I agree with you on Vlade Mike. As you can read above, I dislike "Floppy" but I have to admit, he played a stand-up Game 4, and unfortunately was rewarded with a loss and potential scapegoat tag. Really too bad since it was one of the games where he played solid, straight-up, and didn't flop. I kinda wish he'd gotten a win so he'd play that way from now on...nah, I'm still glad my Lakers won.

 

[Mike Broadman]

Basketball has and should emphasize, glorify and reward speed, quickness, precision and finesse.

Basketball, like any sport, should emphasize whatever it takes to win. As a Knicks fan, I of course have no problem with aggressive, physical playing. Shaq's style may not be pretty, but it's impressive in its own right.
Howard, you seem to be saying that they call too many fouls, then later on that they don't call enough.
Sometimes the calling does get ridiculous. It is really frustrating when you get three in a row or something. One of the reasons the last Celtics/Nets game was so good was because the refs were light on the calls.

 

[Tim Abbott]

Mike,
I had a problem with the officials in the Celtics-Nets game yesterday. It wasn't biased calls against one particular team, it was the inconsistency from the first half to the second half. There were 4 or 5 offensive fouls on the Celtics in the 4th quarter alone!! That being said, I think most of those were the right calls.
In the first half, there were several blocking fouls that I thought were offensive. When the refs establish the type of game that is going to be called in the first half, players expect it to be consistent. Fouls they called blocking in the first half turned to offensive fouls in the 4th quarter. That means they were making the incorrect call in either the 1st half or second half
I'm with Mark Cuban on this one.....all I want is consistency . If the refs call a consistent game (based on a consistent interpretation of the rules) the players will adjust after a few games.
Pierce.........must...make...........noooooooooooo oooooooo!!
Good job, Nets. They hung tough when most people (myself included) expected them to fold up.

 

[JasonK]

Well, from what ESPN has reported, Peja will not play for the Kings tonight, but it is hoped he can return on Friday in LA. We'll see if Turkolu (sp?) can step it up a bit and knock down a few jumpers early, so he gets in some sort of rhythm.

Should be a helluva game tonight!

 

[MichaelG]

Shaq gets hacked or pushed 75% of the time he touches the ball

Shaq commits an offensive foul 75% of the time he touches the ball too. When his offensive play (shouldering the defense or body slam would be another good term for it) wasn't called the defense had to do something. This started years ago as we all know. Chicken or the Egg, who started first, either way it happens and the league has no problem with it. I like Shaq, don't like Kobe, so I like to see Shaq do well but I agree that the rules just aren't enforced consistently.

There is all too much traveling that is not called, fouls not called, as well as fouls called against guys just because who they are. I see way too many phantom fouls that never really happen, but are called. To stop these cheap fouls simply call them, then when these 'superstars' have 4 fouls at half they will re-think making those decisions later.

That being said, can the Lakers be beat? Yes. Will they, I don't know. In my opinion the Lakers are very lucky to not be one game away from being eliminated. The last three games Sacramento simply played better, and looked better. The question is not if Sac can beat them, but will they lose some steam after that last game giving up a 24 point lead. We'll see.

 

[Howard Williams]

Basketball, like any sport, should emphasize whatever it takes to win. As a Knicks fan, I of course have no problem with physical playing. Shaq's style may not be pretty, but it's impressive in its own right.

Let me tell you what my problem is with the NBA and their silly position regarding some of their rules. Basketball has become a contact sport. It was not meant to be, but that's what it has become. Let's look at their stupid guidelines regarding rights and position.

I feel that if a player (defensive or offensive) is at a spot first, no other player has the right to move them from it. If you come up and "body me out" that's a foul !!! I was three first. What the hell gives you the right to just push/nudge/body me outta the way. Yet backing in, moving out, up rooting are all common, accepted and even praised aspects of the game. This happens on offense and defense. You should be able to make contact, but you should not be allowed to displace.

And what the hell is this notion of the player has the right to the space above them, as in a defensive player must have his arms straight up. That's B.S. !!! I should be entitled to any spot or position that by my presence, I claim first. If you have the ball and you lay down on the floor, why should I have to give you space to get up? I was there (over you) first. You go around me, not through me. The foul should always be on the one that causes the contact. If my arms are bent over you and you jump into them, that's a no call, not a foul. The only exception should be for players in the air. If you are in the air you should have the right to the space along your path and the spot to land in as determined by when you leave the ground.

OK, I'm ranting again. Time for a break.

 

[Carlo_M]

Shaq commits an offensive foul 75% of the time he touches the ball too. When his offensive play (shouldering the defense or body slam would be another good term for it) wasn't called the defense had to do something.

This is something I will *not* agree with.
Look at any player who plays in the post, including:
Chris Webber, Antoine Walker, Tim Duncan, etc. Looking at the last few games of this series you can see Fox/Horry/whoever's upper body just shudder with the impact when Webber backs them down. Yet no fouls are called then (and I don't think there should be).
They all back their opponents down using the same type of force.
Now it just so happens that Shaq weighs a hundred pounds more than any of them. But under those rules, if you let Webber, Duncan, Malone, Barkley (in his day) et al. back people down in the post, you have to let Shaq do it. You can't punish Shaq because he's bigger and stronger than everybody. What's next, raising the rim for tall/athletic guys and lowering it for all players under 6' tall? Or maybe making the faster guys slow it down so the slower guys can keep up?

 

[MichaelG]

Carlo, I never said that no other players do the same thing as Shaq. But it was pointed out that Shaq gets fouled 75% of the time, so I pointed out that he also fouls 75% of the time. This happens to him more than other players, but I also think he makes uncalled offensive fouls at the same rate. I think that it basically evens out with Shaq on the fouls, but that doesn't make it right.
I think that Howard makes a GREAT point, if you are playing defense the offensive player should not be allowed to move you from that position, at all. You should have to move around the defense, period. I don't understand why these guys don't just jump forward into the defense everytime they shoot (from a pivot position, not moving), it's a foul.
Hey, Barkley was the first (that I can recall) to really make the backdown move a prominate part of basketball, and it wasn't right then either. Make these guys play basketball, not hockey or football. I have liked Shaq ever since he played at LSU, but him, Webber, and whoever else that plays a body moving game aren't playing basketball according to the way the rules were drawn up. Unless the rules have changed and moving an opponent out of their defensive position is legal, they should foul out by the end of the first half.
Simply put, call the fouls when they happen, then the players won't be so aggressive.

 

[Carlo_M]

See the problem with trying to call all of these fouls is that it's technically a foul if you also disrupt an offensive player trying to get into a spot. So every time Shaq goes across the lane to get position, someone is pushing him from behind (Vlade, when he's not flopping, tries to root him out using a knee which is also illegal). So then if you call the backing down foul, you gotta call the obstruction foul on the defense which happened before it...you get the point. All frontcourt starters would foul out in 5 minutes.

I for one think the refs are doing a fine job both ways, the way the game is played today.

If you're going to argue that refs should call the fouls in the books and try to bring back 60's style BBall (pure, true bball), best of luck to you because it ain't gonna happen.

With what goes on now, I don't think Shaq gets the raw end of the deal, nor do his opponents. He truly is the hardest man to ref because of his strength and size.