Can someone please explain the end of Black Hole to me??....

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by todd s, Nov 5, 2001.

  1. todd s

    todd s Lead Actor

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 1999
    Messages:
    7,116
    Likes Received:
    71
    I am talking about the scene at the End where the guy appears in Maximillian. Then he is on some barren wasteland with rows of people walking around and flames are everywhere. Is he in hell??
     
  2. Joel Mack

    Joel Mack Cinematographer

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 1999
    Messages:
    2,317
    Likes Received:
    0
    I've always thought so, yes.
    ------------------
    "The internet is a place where people from all over come together to
    bitch about movies and share pornography."
     
  3. Joel Fontenot

    Joel Fontenot Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 1999
    Messages:
    872
    Likes Received:
    150
    Location:
    Baton Rouge, LA
    Real Name:
    Joel Fontenot
    I like this movie.
    However, there is really no way to explain it's meandering storyline [​IMG].
    The only thing I can say is...Ernest Borgnine's character says something early on about Dante's Inferno.
    Joel
     
  4. Alex Spindler

    Alex Spindler Producer

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2000
    Messages:
    3,971
    Likes Received:
    0
    Yes, he is able to survive inside of Maximilian, and is doomed to rule a blasted planet (a version of hell).
     
  5. Kevin M

    Kevin M Producer

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2000
    Messages:
    5,172
    Likes Received:
    2
    Um, actually I believe that those are hallucinations that the people on the shuttle are experiencing due to the reality bending nature of the Black Hole (the movies idea of a Black Hole anyway), they have to go through Hell & then Heaven in order to finally get through the other side and reach if not earth then some earth like planet...in other words Home / salvation.
    That's my take on it anyway.
    ------------------
    -Kevin M.
    I can brave the nastiest weather, even when it's eighty below.
    My Pa was an Elephant, but that's irrelevant,
    My Ma was an Eskimo."
    - Cannibal the Musical.
    [Edited last by Kevin M on November 05, 2001 at 01:59 PM]
     
  6. Matthew Chmiel

    Matthew Chmiel Cinematographer

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2000
    Messages:
    2,282
    Likes Received:
    0
    Even if the producers have said the four survivors (Dan, Charles, Kate, and V.I.N.C.E.N.T) end up going back to Earth, there are many interpretations on what happens in the end...
    My interpertation is that everybody ends up dead by the end of the film. Reinhardt and Maximilian ended up going to hell as they both killed somebody in the course of the film: Maximilian killed Alex and Reinhardt killed Harry. Now with Dan, Charles, Kate and V.I.N.C.E.N.T... they ended up going to heaven as they're the good guys, and there's no way you can go through a black hole and end up surviving.
    A friend of mine told me the "gay" interpretation of the film's ending, but that's not suitable for the forum. [​IMG]
    ------------------
    [​IMG]
    My DVD Collection / AIM: MrMatthew / ICQ: 96444542
    "I'm a firm believer in the philosophy of a ruling class. Especially since I rule."
    [Edited last by Matthew Chmiel on November 05, 2001 at 11:28 PM]
     
  7. Geoffrey_A

    Geoffrey_A Second Unit

    Joined:
    May 22, 2001
    Messages:
    280
    Likes Received:
    0
    The final portion of the film sure is surreal. I've been with my gf for nearly 5 years now, and although she's promised me many times, she has still yet to watch this movie full way through with me, and now refuses to even discuss watching it with me anymore [​IMG] Anyways, my take on it is this. Reinhardt ends up in Hell, trapped inside the machine he created, forever to be tormented by the zombie crew he created. Our heroes pass through the black hole and into another dimension, where they head off into the sunset.
    I'll tell ya what though, the ending to the novelization is way way different. The book is a decent piece of fluff, Alan Dean Foster does a respectable job, as always, of turning mediocre movies into passable novelizations. Anyways, for those who want to know, this is how the book ends:
    Spoiler:The crew passes through the blackhole and basically transcends the bonds of corporeal existence and become one with the universe, becoming aware of all things in the universe all at once. Weird eh?
    Maybe one day I'll share my script for my remake of "The Black Hole" with you guys. No laughing :p
    ------------------
    Geoff
    Now with Kung-Fu grip and realistic facial hair!
    [​IMG]
    [Edited last by Geoffrey_A on November 06, 2001 at 05:42 AM]
     
  8. Darren H

    Darren H Second Unit

    Joined:
    May 10, 2000
    Messages:
    447
    Likes Received:
    0
    Geoffrey, I'd actually be curious to see your script. I've never looked into the making of The Black Hole, but I've always assumed that the script was written independently, then purchased by Disney, who wanted to capitalize on the Star Wars sci-fi bonanza. I do remember reading that, at the time, it was the most expensive Disney production and one of its biggest flops.
    Anyway, I've always wondered about how the script-writer must have reacted when he heard that Disney was interested. Because that is a dark film, and a surprisingly literate one. Actually, I wish Steven Soderberg would step away from his proposed remake of Tarkovsky's Solaris (sacrilege) and take on The Black Hole instead.
     
  9. Geoffrey_A

    Geoffrey_A Second Unit

    Joined:
    May 22, 2001
    Messages:
    280
    Likes Received:
    0
    Interestingly enough, the Black Hole was in house all the way. The original script was a far cry from what ended up on the screen. The original concept was a "boy and his dog" kind of film. Vincent was originally a floating robot with many mechanical arms, who goes through the black hole and returns with a flower, proving there is life on the other side. Very hokey. The black hole was a very expensive film at the time of its release, 20-25 million if I recall correctly. Not much by todays standards, but very hefty back then. This also marks Disney's first PG film ever. This was followed later by Disney's first PG animated film, the Black Cauldron. Black seems to be a good colour for Disney firsts [​IMG]
    My script is pretty rough, mostly just outline, although the first sequence up until the docking with the cygnus is completed (though in need of revisions. I've Also animated a trailer for the film, it's my Computer Animation demo reel. Nothing outstanding, but kinda neat. I intended to make the film a lot darker, focussing on that aspect, getting away from the goofyness. No robots with cartoon eyes (Although I love vincent dearly). If you want I'll share some of my ideas and designs with anyone who's interested.
    ------------------
    Geoff
    Now with Kung-Fu grip and realistic facial hair!
    [​IMG]
     
  10. Dick

    Dick Producer
    Supporter

    Joined:
    May 22, 1999
    Messages:
    5,572
    Likes Received:
    1,611
    Real Name:
    Rick
    THE BLACK HOLE suffered from the syndrome many Disney films were victim to in the 70's-80's: how to make the film attractive to both adults and children (thereby often compromising to the point where it appealed to neither demographic). BLACK HOLE had wonderful, even intense adult elements - Maximillian; the secret of the robot servants; Anthony Perkin's death, etc. But is also had those insufferable flying robots that brought the film down to a kiddie level. SOMETHING WICKED THIS WAY COMES and even the generally awesome DRAGONSLAYER succumbed to this dichotomy.
     
  11. Chauncey_G

    Chauncey_G Second Unit

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2001
    Messages:
    291
    Likes Received:
    0
    The Black Hole was one of those movies that I saw as a kid and absolutely loved. In my mind's eye, I had always remembered this film as being top-notch.
    I watched it again recently, and...
    ...I should've stuck to remembering it. Yech. Although it did look nice given when it was made.
     
  12. Todd Phillips

    Todd Phillips Second Unit

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2000
    Messages:
    279
    Likes Received:
    0
    I'm dredging up this old thread since I just rewatched The Black Hole last night...it is such a mixed bag. My wife and I were playing count the cliches. Almost every line is one, especially during the first part of the movie (ALL of VINCENT's line certainly are, but that seemed to be on purpose). The dialogue could have been generated by a computer.
    However the production design is still excellent, as is the mood. I actually thought the visual effects during the ending were well-done, in spite of it being completely incomprehensible. Plus, I find the music to be outstanding...John Barry writes a good score. [​IMG]
    I was prepared to being disappointed, but I found myself enjoying it despite the flat dialogue and characters. Besides it gave me silly fantasies of tossing bad scriptwriters into the black hole.:p)
     
  13. Edwin-S

    Edwin-S Producer

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2000
    Messages:
    5,969
    Likes Received:
    282
    Is he in hell??
    ------------------------------------------------------------
    I don't know if he was but I distinctly remember thinking I was when I saw this movie at the theatre. [​IMG]
     
  14. Scott Weinberg

    Scott Weinberg Lead Actor

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2000
    Messages:
    7,477
    Likes Received:
    0
    V.I.N.C.E.N.T. was a ghost the whole time. If you watch carefully, you'll notice that nobody really TALKS to him throughout the entire movie... and...

    Maybe I'm thinking of the wrong movie...
     
  15. Garrett Lundy

    Garrett Lundy Producer

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2002
    Messages:
    3,764
    Likes Received:
    0
    I was working under the general assumption that Reinhar... Reichkopff....er, Dr.Insidious and "Max" were in fact: In Hell. Who are the minions in "Hell"? Hell's minions of course. Or the ghosts of the zombie/cyborg crew of the spaceship (I think it was the Nostradamous, maybe the Nebachenezzar, or the Nordic Track). I speculate that Dr. Whatshisface is "inside" of Maximillian because the bad doctor uses Max as his weapon of killing, Max was an extention of his body , so to speak, and in Hell the evil horned ones decided that he should be trapped in his own mechanical "self" because its funny.
    And the sureal part of the movie for the Hero's , much like in 2001:A Space Odyssey: This cannot be explained. I require more chemicals than coca-cola and pop-secret popcorn can provide to correctly guess at the psychodelic meaning to the end of these films.
    Now for something completely differant: Black Hole: The Remake.
    As far as I am concern, It's already been done. Therefore I present The Event Horizon, and why it was a remake.
    Dr.Insidious claims to be "On the event horizon" while his ship stands before the black hole, ready to venture forth. The Event Horizon is a ship that create its very own black hole whenever it wants to go from A to B via the new shortest distance (none at all). But the navicom computers somehow take a wrong turn in subspace and end up in Hell.
    Dr.Wier (Event Horizon) takes the place of Dr.Whomever (Black Hole). The killing machine Maximillian is replaced by the ship itself. The zombie/cyborg crew of the spaceship in The Black Hole have been replaced in The Event Horizon with the Ghosts of the former crew. I suspect that this is because horror movies need ghosts, cyborgs weren't creepy enough, or the writers really, really liked Flatliners.
    The Event Horizon has no V.I.N.C.E.N.T. It was replaced by the much funnier pilot Smitty. And Lawrence Fishburne replaces the guy from the first movie.
    To sum-up the remake proof:
    TBH: Spaceship in space, on the edge of black hole that leads to hell.
    TEH: Spaceship in space, creates own black hole that leads to hell.
    TBH: Crew killed, used as mindless automotons.
    TEH: Crew Killed, used as mindless wallpaper and evil visions to drive rescue crew insane.
    TBH: Has evil doctor running the show
    TEH: Has evil doctor running the show
    TBH: Ship goes through black hole at end, go's to Hell.
    TEH: Ship goes through black Hole at end, go's to Hell.
    About the only new thingy was the Gravity Drive spinny ball. In The Black Hole , spaceships were cool looking, But in the late 90's people have seen spaceships and wanted cool spikey ball thingy to look at. That and techno music. Techno Music always makes a remake better. So The Event Horizon has much techno music. I thoroughly enjoyed The Event Horizon far too much, have seen it too many times on DVD (Needs a 2-disc with DTS), and cannot fathom why more people cannot see it as the Sci-Fi/Horror remake of The Black Hole , It's as clear to me now as the first time I saw it in the theaters.
     
  16. Rex Bachmann

    Rex Bachmann Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2001
    Messages:
    1,975
    Likes Received:
    0
    Real Name:
    Rex Bachmann
    Garrett Lundy wrote:
     
  17. Jeff Cooper

    Jeff Cooper Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2000
    Messages:
    1,448
    Likes Received:
    101
     
  18. Brad_V

    Brad_V Second Unit

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2002
    Messages:
    356
    Likes Received:
    0
    I had forgotten about the movie until reading this thread. The other day I went to four video stores before finally finding a copy. 20-year anniversary edition? Wow, I didn't know I was that old.

    For the ending, I've read a little bit on it now, and some people think the merging into Maximillian at the end is a nod to the book's ending where those two merge, and the good guys merge into some other-worldly consciousness or something.

    This was an interesting thing I dug up, though. If you haven't seen the widescreen version, here's the full ending. Normally I don't think full-format vs. widescreen is the big deal most people make it out to be, but in this case it is:

    The Widescreen image also gave more information that helped interpret the until now ambiguous final sequence. As the camera pulls away from the mountain where Reinhardt/Maximillian are standing, it drops over a

    sort of "natural bridge" where we can see people marching. It then drops below the natural bridge, where on either side of the screen, we see robed figures with faint death head's faces. These are the remaining crew from the Cygnus. This image is lost in the pan and scan version. It appears that Reinhardt/Maximillian now rule over a Hell or inferno peopled by the poor souls that were the former crew of the

    Cygnus. However, the crew of the Palomino don't seem destined for that fate, as an angel leads them out and to a new promised land? Still some potential religious overtones in this film.
     
  19. Todd Phillips

    Todd Phillips Second Unit

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2000
    Messages:
    279
    Likes Received:
    0
     
  20. Rex Bachmann

    Rex Bachmann Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2001
    Messages:
    1,975
    Likes Received:
    0
    Real Name:
    Rex Bachmann
    To Todd Phillips:

    Thanks. I will keep what you say in mind.

    I will one day revisit this odd little dark film.
     

Share This Page