Cadillac CTSi - V8, Fall 2003 (1 Viewer)

[Brandon_T]

Yeah, I am sure that GM has never let anything go for thousands of vehicles before doing something about it, gas tanks, cough cough.

I dont think you will find any manufacturer that is free from that type of slow action.

Look, my father worked for GM for 35years, and both my Grandfathers had over 38 years each in the same plant as my dad. I still will never buy another GM Product.

 

[Chuck C]

Brandon-

GM has definitely let saftey information go for years before reporting. Same with Ford (c'mon...Pinto!) and probably every single auto mfg in the world. Even with strict NHTSA rules, the fact remains that recalls are expensive and most companies will put them off until the litigation totals exceed the cost of recall. Cars are a tricky beast, and no one car mfg can claim zero defects. So now we are back...defects should not discourage buyers because they are inherent in the product. That's not to say that shopping based on quality isn't found...it's precisely the reason most buy japanese cars.

I am satisfied with GM's commitment to quality. You can eat off the floor at the CTS factory. Those guys at the cadillac forum often laud the CTS for its fit and finish. That's the direction GM is taking with its premium vehicles ( I can't say the same about the rest).

The point of this, however thread revival is that there is no denying the CTS-V's amazing agility and power. BMW should be wary, and they are (500hp M5 coming soon).

 

[Shane Martin]

Chuck,
True but my boss has a CTS and wishes he didn't buy one now. It's in the shop more than he drives it. He is really looking to unload the sucker right now and can't get a buyer(I wonder why..).

Gm's commitment to quality is unproven over the past few years. The top manufacturers in the reliability survey on JD Power are all Japanese. Are Germans better? No but I'll take the performance edge and driving a German car over the GM.

If Gm's reliability was so good then their sales would reflect that and it isn't. They can't outsell the Japanese and why? Because the cars they build are bulletproof nearly. There are probably not that many Japanese cars out there to outrun the CTS-V but they will surely outlast them. The best of both worlds is to buy a Japanese car(which are mostly made here in the USA anymore) and then buy a muscle car.

Now since this thread doesn't revolve around too many Japanese performance cars, Would you rather have a shoddy American car or a BMW M3 with free maintenance until the warranty ends? For me I'd take the manual shift mode M3 and enjoy the daylights out of it.

 

[Chuck C]

shane - which model year and which engine? was it a 2003 (the first model year)?

 

[Scott Strang]

Chevy Impala

Actually that should be "Chevy Impile-of-iron".

 

[Scott L]

Here's a neat video of the making of an E46 M3.
50 megs, 22.5 min long
Wonder how GM's assembly line compares

 

[Steve Schaffer]

I work in the service dept. of a largish Toyota dealership.
Our service mgr has an '01 BMW 3 series with under 50k miles on it. It's already suffered a water pump failure and all 4 power windows have needed new motors. Anyone accustomed to Japanese reliability would call it a lemon.

The only thing that saves BMW is the fact that most owners are affluent enough to replace them before the warranty runs out.

 

[Chuck C]

Okay, just to rub in the "I told you so" a little more:
-----------------------------
From cadillacforums.com:
What car embarrased a BMW M3 on the track?
7/15/2004
I had the chance to attend the Cadillac drive summit (Thanks to a great heads up by one of our readers, Mohammad) and it was cool!
But the best part was the showdown between the Cadillac CTS-V and the BMW M3.
They took both cars and challenged them to a test.
Who could go from 0-100MPH and back to 0 the fastest?
The drivers were not able to start hitting the brakes UNTIL their car hit 100MPH.
They then further handicapped the CTS-V by making it go through a six cone obstacle test whill the M3 was allowed to go straight ahead as fast as it could.
Guess what happened?
I thought for sure it would be super close because the Caddy had to do the obstacle course.
Boy, was I wrong!
It SMOKED the M3!
It was faster to 100MPH AND faster stopping!
The picture you see here shows how much the M3 lost by...

We then had a chance to drive them and we were extremely impressed with the CTS-V. It was faster, larger inside and handled better than any M3 I've driven....for the same price or less depending on what deal you get!
I even like the interior appointments and ergonomics better.
That's high praise because I'm a real import snob.
If you're in the market for a current generation M-series car, you owe it to yourself to test the CTS-V.
---------------------
What a machine! anyone drive one yet?

 

[Christ Reynolds]

I wouldn't own a GM product at any price

add me to that club, too.

CJ

 

[Brandon_T]

They then further handicapped the CTS-V by making it go through a six cone obstacle test whill the M3 was allowed to go straight ahead as fast as it could.

I don't buy it. Especially after reading the comparison review here http://www.caranddriver.com/article...._number=1...of by Car and Driver
They like the caddy, but I wouldn't say it "smoked" the M3.
And for my money, the CTS still look like just a Cadillac. I live in a GM town, and I get so sick of seeing nothing but GM vehicles.

 

[Shawn C]

Wonder how GM's assembly line compares

Probably just about the same. Maybe even more efficient due the higher volumes of cars they build. From what I have seen on T.V., the Saturn process is pretty cool.

 

[Julio H]

I even like the interior appointments and ergonomics better.

Very yawn inducing.
Exterior is still butt ugly.

And this coming from a auto-design student.

 

[Chuck C]

I'm surprised at the deep anti-GM setiment. While it's true, that GM as a whole has reliability problems, take a look at JD Power's latest 2004 problems per 100 new 2004 cars (in first 90 days) statistics:
-------------------
2004 IQS Results:
Lexus 87
Cadillac 93
Jaguar 98
Honda 99
Buick 100
Mercury 100
Hyundai 102
Infiniti 104
Toyota 104
Mercedes-Benz 106
Audi 109
BMW 109
Oldsmobile 110
Volvo 113
Acura 117
Chevrolet 119
IND. AVERAGE 119
Chrysler 120
Dodge 121
Lincoln 121
Pontiac 122
Subaru 123
GMC 127
Ford 130
Mitsubishi 130
Saab 133
Jeep 136
MINI 142
Land Rover 148
Saturn 149
Suzuki 149
Kia 153
Nissan 154
Mazda 157
Scion 158
Porsche 159
Volkswagen 164
Hummer 173
http://www.thecarconnection.com/index.asp?article=7086
-----------------
Also, the new caddies (CTS and SRX) hold their values like no other caddy before them. The new production facilities are state of the art, lean, well-lighted. So please, give Cadillac a chance (and Buick too...the LeSabre is one of the most reliable cars on the road today).

 

[Christ Reynolds]

(in first 90 days)

to me, this type of study is nearly useless. unless you guys actually know people who own cars for only 90 days.

CJ

 

[Chuck C]

to me, this type of study is nearly useless. unless you guys actually know people who own cars for only 90 days.

Okay, how about JD power's THREE YEAR-OLD CARS study?


Even this forum's precious BMW is ousted by GM. That's not to say I'm against BMW, I'm actually quite fond of bimmers but not as big a fan as I am of Cadillacs.
source:
http://www.jdpa.com/studies_jdpower/...ID=860&CatID=1

 

[Christ Reynolds]

how about JD power's THREE YEAR-OLD CARS study?

i never said the results would be drastically different, i said that 90 days was a nearly useless time frame to use. i dont mind that bmw has a lower 'reliability' than other cars. if i want only reliability, i'll buy a toyota.

CJ

 

[Seth_L]

i never said the results would be drastically different, i said that 90 days was a nearly useless time frame to use. i dont mind that bmw has a lower 'reliability' than other cars. if i want only reliability, i'll buy a toyota.

Then on what basis are you bashing the Cadillac?

 

[Christ Reynolds]

Then on what basis are you bashing the Cadillac?

well, i wasnt. while i will never own a cadillac or any other GM product, i dont need to bash them in here. there are plenty of cadillac fans here, and also fans of the cars i like. and niether side will ever change the other's mind. my only argument was that the '90 day' list seemed like a silly time frame to look at the problems of vehicles. it seems that a vehicle that has a lot of problems within the first 90 days will have a lot of problems during the life of the car, so a 90 day study can be important, when coupled with a longer term study. when it is alone, it is nearly useless.

CJ

 

[Brandon_T]

I can't personally bash Cadillac, other than the fact that I think the CTS is a ugly car, therefore, I would never own it.

I can bash GM cars on personal expierience. My wifes Olds. Aurora, had a three page history of problems before the warranty ran out, including new rotors and pads twice, both trunk compression spring thingys rusted, yes rusted away, just had to have a new malfunctioning turn signal put on, that was only $579.00. The windows stopped going up last summer and had to be partially re-wired.

My brand new Grand Prix I bought in 98 had to go in so many times that I got rid of it.

The only GM product we have owned and had no troubles with was our Saturn which I liked very much.

My 325is that I owned for 4 years, was in the shop 1 time for new struts, and that is what I go by. Can't wait to get another one!

 

[Eric_Bender]

You guys have forgotten to mention the car that casued Cadillac to create the CTS, the Lincoln LS.
Car and Driver has continued to rate the LS over the CTS time and again for handling, refinement, quality and styling.
The LS V8 Sport is an amazing vehicle. While I have not driven the CTS, I have driven the LS and I am All smiles.