Blu-ray State of the Union. Are you switching to streaming media? (1 Viewer)

[Kevin Collins]

Originally Posted by Ejanss /t/322642/blu-ray-state-of-the-union-are-you-switching-to-streaming-media#post_3955194
I literally don't even remember anyone in the industry talking about the "death of physical media" until Microsoft started strategically acting sour-grapes about losing HD-DVD in the Format War--which if it'd won, would've given them the monopoly on all digital coding, hard and streaming--and hoped to surreptitiously "destroy" Blu's new hard-disk advantage in favor of getting that streaming-code monopoly anyway.
Any time the subject's come up, I've smelled a Big Fat Rat ever since.
(No, wait, think it was predated by Jeffrey Katzenberg at Dreamworks claiming "DVD disk sales are dying!" as his public excuse for why Shrek 2 didn't sell as many disks on shelves as he'd hoped. The Little Midget Rat just never missed a trick for alibis, and he ironclad believed every single one he thought up.)
And even then, you could take the sentiments back to the studios' support of pay-per-view DiVX in the DVD Wars, and their constant promotion that we should watch a movie "Now on your PPV cable system--You can fast forward and rewind!" over their hard-disk sales--
I compare it to the medieval days when the monarchy was afraid of the printing press, for fear that the peasants would learn to read and start expressing opinions, or the medieval Church's ban on letting peasants read the Bible themselves, instead of letting those in power do it for them:
In any new media, studios have always tried to retain whatever system would make us come to THEM for our movies, instead of a disk owner buying a disk once and taking it off his shelf any time he likes. For me, buying a disk is all about "A disk owner's shelf is his castle", and I don't want to rack up data charges every time I have the urge to watch something....Saving that money and effort was pretty much the reason I paid out the $24.95 in the first place.
If Warner gives me a free 2-D 480p Ultraviolet copy of Deathly Hallows Pt. 2 with the 4-DISK, 1080p 3-D SET I bought at Best Buy, I let them....It's free stuff.
I don't know if I'll ever use it, since I don't have any mobile devices, and I probably wouldn't be allowed to use them on an airline flight nowadays if I did (those I save for hard iTunes digital copies on my iPod Classic), but if it makes Warner feel better to have some illusion of corporate control over my life, who am I to spoil their dream?

Hulu was in the "death of physical media" business way before the format war ended and there were three studios that funded (still do) Hulu. That was the real beginning of the "death of physical media". I sure don't know where Microsoft played any role in the death of physical media outside of fighting for rights around managed copy with AACS, but that was to support physical media and to allow legitimate and legal sharing of the content.

If anyone was moving on the "death of physical media" it was and is Apple and Amazon. Microsoft doesn't even have single digit percentages in audio or video digital distribution.

So, nice to dream about Microsoft wanting to talk about the "death of physical media", but that would be giving them way too much credit. Talk to Apple and Amazon about that, they are the ones that are actually making it happen. And if Apple really does come out with a HD Apple TV, then it will be real interesting to see how it goes.

 

[Kevin Collins]

Originally Posted by Traveling Matt /t/322642/blu-ray-state-of-the-union-are-you-switching-to-streaming-media/30#post_3955294
Kevin, could you provide links to what you're quoting? I'd like to read any available articles. Thanks.

Much of the Nielsen, NPD and IHS analyst reports are from subscriptions. I will search to see if I can dig up those articles where they are accessible publicly.

 

[Kevin Collins]

Originally Posted by Jason_V /t/322642/blu-ray-state-of-the-union-are-you-switching-to-streaming-media/30#post_3955331
So I have a very, very hard time thinking streaming will ever have the safeguards I would require to give up physical discs permanently. If one Amazon server goes down that houses, say, Star Trek 2009, I can't watch it. But that won't affect me in the least if the disc is sitting on my shelf.

Amazon,Google, Apple, Microsoft all have numerous data centers worldwide with multiple failover points and many use the same cloud IaaS that they sell to customers. The difference is that they know how to provide robust service. What you see with startups failing when Amazon or someone elses data center goes down, isn't what you see with their services.

So, I don't agree with the assessment that cloud = potential failure. Cloud with not setup proper failover mechanism = eventual failure.

 

[David Weicker]

I think my biggest concern with the 'streaming' replacing physical is the cost structure. Most 'streaming' today is a one-price fits all. I can't foresee the studios staying with that model going forward. I also can't see the preservation/restoration/presentation that we've become accustomed to continuing if we go to a 'streaming' world.
My reasoning is this. Studios are run by bean-counters. Bean-counters like to attribute specific expenses to specific assets. Under the current model, every movie is equal - a customer pays a monthly fee, and all the movies in a particular library are available to them, or a certain number of movies per period are available to them. Eventually the studios are going to balk. Customer A watched 10 new movies with a combined budget of 500 million, Customer B watch 10 classic movies with a combined budget of 50 million, yet we charged both of them $10. Where's my ROI?
Plus, the streaming model as is doesn't provide an incentive to improve the content, or add additional content. If they have 1000 dvd quality movies or 1000 BR quality movies in their library, they still get their $ from the customers.
Now, if they switch models, and start charging per movie, with different rates based on the perceived quality of the movie, then the consumers will likely change their habits. The pocketbook will replace the convenience, and streaming viewing will probably follow the current path of physical viewing - and be reflective of the economy's ups and downs.
And of course, the arguments put forth by the other posters still apply. The streaming world is currently not stable. Its similar to watching movies on TV when I was young. I recall watching some movies many times, and then they disappeared for decades as they went into rights-dispute hell. As a TV movie watcher, we were held hostage to the various squabbling owners, where if we had a method to own them, we could have continued to watch them during those ensuing decades. The format has changed - TV vs Streaming - but the possibility of content being withdrawn is still real.
I personally feel we will see a combination of both worlds (its funny, the pundits always seem to see things as an either/or, which it rarely is).
David

 

[Ejanss]

So, nice to dream about Microsoft wanting to talk about the "death of physical media", but that would be giving them way too much credit.  Talk to Apple and Amazon about that, they are the ones that are actually making it happen.  And if Apple really does come out with a HD Apple TV, then it will be real interesting to see how it goes. 

Actually, it was Steve Jobs who first proposed the idea of bundling Digital Copy .m4v files with the hard disks (actually ON the disks), as a way of making it easier for customers to use their new video iPods, but none of the studios listened.
Other studios later just happened upon the idea once iTunes Store actually took off, but Warner kept looking for some angle that would keep them away from Apple, and its "unfair" policy of charging one set price for movies and TV shows.

 

[Michael Elliott]

I'm with you. I almost never go to a theater anymore. Between the admission and the cost of concessions (not to mention travel expense), it is more expensive than buying or renting physical media and you have to put up with cell phones going off, people gabbing away, etc.

I used to agree but it's good to find a theater that doesn't put up with that stuff. Plus, early or late showings are usually pretty clear of many people especially if you wait until the last week or so that a film will be showing. With that said, I'd be willing to bet that most people have more distractions at home (kids, phone, wife, outside noises, so on) than they do at a theater. Sure there are always going to be idiots who don't realize that the "no talking, no cell phone" warnings before movies include them.
As for price, these were all $6 or less:
The Devil Inside
The Woman in Black
Ghost Rider: Spirit of Vengeance
Gone
Silent House
Being Flynn
21 Jump Street
The Three Stooges
Bully
The Cabin in the Woods
The Hunger Games
Lockout
The Raven
The Avengers
Safe
Chernobyl Diaries
Bernie
Prometheus
Snow White and the Huntsman
Seeking a Friend for the End of the World
Ted
The Amazing Spider-Man
Savages
The Dark Knight Rises

 

[Michael Elliott]

What is your screen size and is it 1080p or 720p plus how far do you sit from the screen?  I found the streaming from Netflix mediocre at best.  That might be good enough for you, but not me.  As to theaters, that's fine and dandy for new films, but most of us can't watch classic films in a movie theater unless there is a special event.
Crawdaddy

The projection screen is 109 inches but I rarely use it anymore. To be honest, it's probably been over a year since I've used it. The main set-up in the living room is 58 inches and 1080p. Except with the Netflix, which depends on the source. For the B&W, 4x3 trash movies it's usually watched on a smaller screen in the room. Most of the documentaries, TV specials and other items are viewed on anything ranging from a laptop to a cellphone. Quality varies from product to product as some of it is remastered, some VHS sources and some is HD. It's hard to judge quality unless there's a certain title at hand but going through the Shout! Corman releases via streaming, they certainly looked much better than the older DVDs. The funny thing is that some of them were sourced from the older DVDs while some were the more current releases. This here is something that needs to be taken care of going forward.
Either way, I've encountered very few problems in regards to the streaming. I use Insight internet and have the 10.0 speed and this has always offered great quality and I never run into buffering issues. I'm guessing the higher speeds would be even better but I know those with lower ones do have problems.
I think I simply watch too many movies to really center in and focus on quality. I mean, half the films I watch will never get a decent release so even with flaws in the source, it's better than not watching them at all. If I'm watching RAGING BULL, ON THE WATERFRONT or BRIDE OF FRANKENSTEIN then of course I want quality. If I'm watching a favorite of mine then I want quality but if I'm just watching something because I'm a film buff and the film isn't a favorite, I'll skip the quality and still be able to enjoy the movie. I still refuse to watch P&S but thankfully most streams are at least widescreen.

 

[Powell&Pressburger]

I don't care if you can download 1080P or not I don't see the interest in owning a file? I mean you don't get a case it is that just a file. Are we going to be online buying OOP files haha. Sorry I like to OWN movies I have on my shelf, I have streamed a few titles online before and was non plussed with the quality and issues. And those issues aside again, I like owning a movie, not a file that is just on a hard drive. I know younger generations don't get much of a thrill of owning actual albums and looking at the booklets etc but call me old fashioned that is the thrill of owning it IMO. I doubt I would ever be exited to see something download to my hard drive.

Physical media until I die or nothing. sorry.

 

[Towergrove]

Originally Posted by Mark-P /t/322642/blu-ray-state-of-the-union-are-you-switching-to-streaming-media/30#post_3955320
Maybe you're just referring to the communal experience, but the technical experience most certainly can be replicated in the home environment with Blu-ray, a good 1080p projector and a great sound system. I'd much rather experience a movie with a few close friends in my home theater than a huge crowd of strangers, but that's just me.

I did prefer the theater when we were watching from a film projector but since my neighborhood theater has switched from film based to digital projection I find that I prefer my finely tuned home theater to that of the stuttery images and uncalibrated projector at "Cine 4 Center" down the road.

 

[Towergrove]

Originally Posted by Kevin Collins /t/322642/blu-ray-state-of-the-union-are-you-switching-to-streaming-media/30#post_3955338

Amazon,Google, Apple, Microsoft all have numerous data centers worldwide with multiple failover points and many use the same cloud IaaS that they sell to customers. The difference is that they know how to provide robust service. What you see with startups failing when Amazon or someone elses data center goes down, isn't what you see with their services.

So, I don't agree with the assessment that cloud = potential failure. Cloud with not setup proper failover mechanism = eventual failure.

As a businesswoman my IT director came to me the other day talking about the cloud. I had many concerns and I asked him:

1. If we go to a cloud system where is our data being stored? Can you show me where on a map? Which country? Is it even in a country that has the same values in privacy as the US?

2. Who will be maintaining the servers storing our important data. Do you have the person (s) names? What is their background (background checks)? Do they meet my standards and would I
have hired this person?

Our business was built on the foundation of our data. I would find it foolish to turn over the keys to that foundation to someone I don't know and have no Idea where they are located and rely on the "cloud" company to provide the proper screening and supervision of their employees and to maintain 100% privacy. It a risk that I and many business owners will not take.

 

[Towergrove]

http://www.itproportal.com/2010/09/22/microsoft-predicts-blu-rays-demise/

 

[WinstonCely]

I guess I'm too old school. I don't believe I own it, if I can't touch it.

 

[Jason_V]

Originally Posted by Kevin Collins /t/322642/blu-ray-state-of-the-union-are-you-switching-to-streaming-media/30#post_3955338

Amazon,Google, Apple, Microsoft all have numerous data centers worldwide with multiple failover points and many use the same cloud IaaS that they sell to customers. The difference is that they know how to provide robust service. What you see with startups failing when Amazon or someone elses data center goes down, isn't what you see with their services.

So, I don't agree with the assessment that cloud = potential failure. Cloud with not setup proper failover mechanism = eventual failure.

I understand what you're saying, Kevin, but I do disagree. If your internet provider goes down for any reason at any time, you lose access to the data. If something happens to any one or multiple data centers, you lose access to the data. With physical media, you have compete control over the information. It's on the shelf and can be put into the player at any time, provided (1) you have electricity and (2) you are not robbed. With streaming, you have to put a large amount of trust in other people where I have no control.

All I see with the cloud is potential failure. Especially with my professional experience with both CRM and online documents.

 

[DaveF]

I've got bad discs, so having physical media is no panacea likewise , "streaming" implies rental, to me. And whether I rent from Blockbuster or ITunes, I don't have anything on my shelf.
"buying" by streaming...I find that an uncomfortable idea. I'd expect that if I've boing Tao etching, I have a copy on my media. Just like with music: Buyinh music online e.g. from Amazon, I have the mp3 on my computer ( and backed up), and I have cloud access for steaming or re-download. If I "buy" a movie, I expect to haves copy somepleace
Saying that...I don't have local copies of all the Kindle books I've bought from Amazon. And I might not have local copies of the Audible books I've bought. In this case, Im not worried. I don't anticipate re-reading all of these, so if Amazon goes out of busi ess and I lose access, it's not a big deal to me.
And for computer software, I increasingly assume online access to the installer. It's a painto keep track of install media, and then download all the updates. It's easier, when setting up a computer, to download the current version and provide the license #. Or to get the whole thing easy-least through the app store.
So...yeah, if the quality, coat and convenience is there,I will move to even streaming purchase of movies.

 

[Rick Thompson]

I don't see it until such time as wireless streaming -- not hardwired, but wireless -- supporting 1080p (at least) streaming. There are big chunks of folks outside the densely populated areas who will never get FIOS or anything similar. Do you think the studios will just write off 10-20 percent of the market? Not likely.
And downloading a 1080p movie over wireless? Got a few days?

 

[Bryan^H]

What's that all about? I have had a 500gb Panasonic Blu Ray recorder since that time and use it often. Using it as I type this reply. They now have a 1TB model available for a much better price then I paid then and 3D to boot. I am looking at it for the a near future upgrade. 

Sorry I didn't clarify. They don't exist in the United States, and after waiting for nearly 5 years I have pretty much given up hope of them coming stateside altogether.
Hence, my concern.

 

[Bryan^H]

Physical media until I die or nothing. sorry.  

Awesome! I'm with you man.

 

[WilliamMcK]

Funny, as I was reading through this thread I realized that I'd been paying $7.99 a month for Hulu+ and have watched exactly one movie, and one episode of a tv series. At 3 months that comes to just shy of $24. So I went to the Hulu site to cancel my subscription but was offered a month free if I didn't cancel... so I'm sticking for another month. Here, from the last three months (since subscribing to Hulu), is a list of all the movies I've seen and the means by which I saw them [yes, I keep a journal of the films that I see] -- I have color coded the titles viewed on commercial discs that I own:
Bonjour tristesse [theatrical screening-revival house]
Celine and Julie Go Boating [theatrical screening-revival house]
Rififi [TCM broadcast-DVR]
The Most Beautiful [purchased DVD]
The Big Heat [purchased Blu-Ray]
La cérémonie [streaming/Hulu+]
Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory [purchased DVD]
The 39 Steps [purchased Blu-Ray]
The Lady Vanishes [purchased Blu-Ray]
Saboteur [purchased DVD]
The Birds [purchased DVD]
The Man Who Knew Too Much (1956) [purchased DVD]
Moonrise Kingdom [theatrical screening-1st run]
Goodbye, Mr. Chips (1939) [purchased DVD]
The Royal Tennenbaums [purchased DVD]
Liliom (1930) [purchased DVD]
One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest [purchased DVD]
Double Indemnity [purchased Blu-Ray]
The Lost Weekend [purchased Blu-Ray]
The Last Laugh [purchased DVD]
Will Success Spoil Rock Hunter? [purchased Blu Ray]
Sanshiro Sugata Part Two [purchased DVD]
Sweeney Todd (2007) [purchased Blu-Ray]
Fear and Desire (DVD-r, ripped from TCM broadcast]
Savages [theatrical screening-1st run]
Targets [purchased DVD]
Full Metal Jacket [purchased Blu-Ray]
Vertigo [theatrical screening-revival house]
The Men Who Tread on the Tiger's Tail [purchased DVD]
As you can see, the overwhelming majority of movies that I see are via DVD and Blu-Ray. The only way I see that changing anytime in the near future is if the choice of purchasing physical media is taken away from me.

 

[Todd Erwin]

While I see streaming as a convenience while waiting for the next disc to arrive from Netflix, I will not say goodbye to physical media anytime soon, for several reasons:

1. 
   HD streaming, for the most part, looks very good on a 42-inch screen. But when you get over 50-inches, you begin to see more pixilation and compression artifacts. The ability to stream at a higher bitrate may help alleviate this issue.
2. 
   There are still many areas here in the US that, at best, can get 1.5Mbps DSL service. There are many other areas still waiting from some sort of broadband service. Until these areas are better served, streaming is not an option.
3. 
   Bandwidth caps put in place by ISP's. While I can understand (to some degree) why Cell Phone Providers have instituted this policy, I agree with Mr. Leo Laporte that caps are unnecessary for DSL, cable, and fiber providers.
4. 
   The studios need to provide the same quality transfers used for Blu-ray to their streaming partners. Many of the titles Netflix offers in HD from their contracts with Epix (a joint-venture between Paramount/Viacom, Lionsgate, and MGM), Warner Bros, Universal, and Fox are cropped to completely fill a 16:9 screen. This is unacceptable. I want to watch movies in their intended aspect ratio. And it is not just Netflix. Many here on the forum have complained about the UltraViolet versions of many films that are cropped for 16:9, even though the DVD or Blu-ray counterpart is in the film's original 2.40:1 aspect ratio. To rub salt into the wound, Netflix recently offered The Robe as part of its streaming service. The synopsis included the phrase "the first film photographed in the CinemaScope process." When I hit play, my heart sank as the movie began in cropped 16:9.

 

[Ejanss]

Funny, as I was reading through this thread I realized that I'd been paying $7.99 a month for Hulu+ and have watched exactly one movie, and one episode of a tv series..

Hulu believes they have "influence" in the streaming industry because they've pretty much now de facto replaced network broadcast--Network shows seem to be aired in their timeslot only as a contractual obligation to their advertising sponsors, and then run ads at the end telling folks to tune in on the website if they missed it.
I say "believes", because Hulu has put ALL its eggs in their current-TV-rerun basked, and their Movie section is the same joke that it five years ago.
In the old days, if you wanted to look up a feature film on YouTube or Hulu, it would probably have to be a public-domain one, as that was the only kind that would be allowed on the streaming sites--Hulu got full of themselves, made "exclusive deals" with Miramax and Criterion, and their Movies section now consists (in addition to the usual indie suspects), of Miramax, Criterion....and public-domain titles.
What nobody--no, really, I'm continually astonished at how many people don't know this --realizes is that Instant Netflix doesn't code their own movies.
Every day you hear complaints about "Why don't they offer more interesting titles?", there's another newbie you can chalk up who doesn't realize that Instant Netflix is only the clearinghouse for everyone ELSE'S streaming website content, from PBS.com BBCAmerica.com Comedy Central, ThisTV, Magnet/Magnolia (oh dear gods...), and so on.
Yes, there was a little more variety when StarzPlay was adding their recent/past-hit canon (along with all their Cowboy Channel westerns and Have Gun Will Travel reruns), but they had a bad breakup, and we're hoping they'll get back together again.
And I think that's why there's such faith in streaming media: Not only does nobody actually know how the darn thing works, it seems to be championed the loudest by those who have never actually seen it in their lives.
I keep flashing back to those days when the Republicans kept trying to wipe PBS off the map by persuading us what a "new frontier" cable networks were, that we "didn't need it" anymore: "NIckelodeon could show Sesame Street!" "CNN could show Frontline!" "The History Channel could show American Experience!". If you're snickering politely now--knowing now what they sure as heck didn't know back then--the rest of us were ROTFLOAO back then, too.
I expect the studio-driven Streaming Gold Rush to approach that point in about five years or so, but it'll be a long, annoying slog through naive clueless optimism till then.