Bias Lighting for a 65" Display? (1 Viewer)

[GeorgeAB]

deleted

 

[GeorgeAB]

...wow...and I have a top calibrator recommending that I get
[color=rgb(40,40,40);font-family:'Merriweather Sans', sans-serif;background-color:rgb(242,242,242);]bias lighting. So who do I believe?[/color]...

Since you asked, here is an updated partial list of other folks who have some experience with reference video imaging best practices, who define, recommend, and/or use D65 bias lighting with their displays:

The Society of Motion Picture and Television Engineers (SMPTE)
The International Organization for Standardization (ISO)
The International Telecommunications Union (ITU)
The National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST)
The Metropolitan Museum of Art
Industrial Light and Magic (ILM)
The Imaging Science Foundation (ISF)
THX, Ltd.
Electronic Arts
deluxe
Technicolor
Microsoft Corporation
Image Entertainment
Universal Studios
PostWorks
The Criterion Collection
Joe Kane Productions
DisplayMate Technologies
CNET Labs
Radical Games
Factor5 Studios
High Moon Studios
CinRam
Rev13 Films
Advanced Television Evaluation Lab- Communications Research Centre- Canada
Apple Corporation
Filet Post Production
Post and Beam
Cheyenne Mtn. Entertainment
CBS Television
Deluxe Digital Studios
Splice Here
Slant Six Games
New Hat LLC
Roush Media
Samsung Germany
Digital Film Lab- Denmark
Nice Shoes, VFX New York
Desperate Housewives, Editorial
Rockhopper Post
Live Nation Studios
LionAV Consultants
Avical
Max Post
Bandito Brothers Studio
Chainsaw Edit
Twin Cities Public Television
Colorflow Post
ABC Television
The Moving Picture Company
Dolby Labs
Dreamworks Animation
University of Quebec at Montreal
Walt Disney Animation Studios
Goodwin Films
deTur Films
Rock Paper Scissors Post
Siren Studios
The Institution Post
Eclipse Post
Video Assist- Canada
Alter Ego Post- Canada
Digicom Video- Canada
Fragments/Megaphon- Norway
Local Hero Post
Newfoundland Independent Filmmakers Co-Op
Pinata Post
Tunnel Post
Houdini Post- Brazil
Bad Cat Films
LDS Motion Picture Studio
Pegasus Pictures- Iceland
Red Creek Productions- Costa Rica
Temple University
The Allotment- UK
Funimation Productions
OPM Consulting- Sweden
Keystone Entertainment- Canada
The Film Syndicate
Nicholas Wiesnet, DP
Eventure Entertainment
Nitrous, Ltd.
Postmenn- Norway
Screentracks, Inc.
Sixteen19 NY
Robot Post- Canada
Parktown Studios- Canada
Hybrid Films, Inc.
CVLT Production
NP Digital, Inc.
General Motors
Andrey Mesnyankin Producitons- Russia
Affect Studios
Afterimage Editorial
Nomad Editing
Lion Television
Post-Moderne- Canada
Sudio M- Canada
Flanders Scientific
Fancy Film
Final Feliz- Mexico
Screenday Productions- Germany
Seven Film & Post- Austria
Black Tie Studios
Pinto Pictures
Arts & Labor
Spledor Omnia- Mexico
Neuteck
Cutters Studio
Cathel Color Company
A & D Images
Illuminura Films- Brazil
TXL Films
Sancho Cine Digital- Chile
Accomplice Edit
Premier PR- UK
Frame- Denmark
Big Bang Post- UK
MTV
BLK MKT Digital
SIF 309 Film Music- Bulgaria
Goshen College
Take 2 Films- UK
Hedgehog Post- Lebanon
Salt Digital Studio
Prolounge- Sweden
Horizon Productions
Zoetrope/Aubrey Productions
Nigma Studios Digital- Mexico
School Of Visual Arts, NY
Rods & Cones VFX
Gray Matter Post
Red Line Studios

But what would they really know?

 

[Ronald Epstein]

Yeah, pretty much seems like a no-brainer that I should do this.

 

[schan1269]

Bias lighting is the real reason automotive interiors are being lit up. Our '10 Subaru has a blue light at the interior map light aimed down at the console. The cupholders are also lit.

I can drive it hours longer, when dark, than I can to '06 Subaru.

There is only one negative to a bias-lit interior...

 

[Robert Crawford]

Yeah, pretty much seems like a no-brainer that I should do this.

Do whatever that makes you happy!

 

[GeorgeAB]

If you're happy with what you're seeing now, why mess with it?

Are you joking?

 

[Ronald Epstein]

George,

Robert was giving me sound advice.

Some people don't believe in the need for bias lighting -- others like myself
are just curious.

 

[Robert Crawford]

Are you joking?

I'll refrain from replying to you and any further involvement in this discussion.

 

[Type A]

wow...and I have a top calibrator recommending that I get bias lighting.

Since when does calibration to standards automatically equate to personal preferences? Especially in regards to Fl.

So who do I believe?

Yourself.Ill bail out of this thread as well, you obviously have far more experienced folks than myself to help.

 

[GeorgeAB]

George,

Robert was giving me sound advice.

Some people don't believe in the need for bias lighting -- others like myself
are just curious.

Sound advice is a good thing. After going back through all the posts in this thread, all I could find from Robert was a question. Did I miss something? I find it odd that a home theater forum moderator would question why someone would want better performance than what they are used to.

Most video consumers lack a fundamental understanding of imaging science principles and video industry best practices. TV manufacturers generally don't devote much effort in explaining the terminology, features, capabilities, and limitations of their products in the owner manuals. After more than two decades since Joe Kane and the Imaging Science Foundation began educating the public and the industry about video performance, televisions still have a "brightness" control that adjusts black levels. Confusion in this arena is still far too commonplace. Video professionals have understood the importance of bias lighting in the viewing environment for well over half a century, yet, most video consumers do not correctly understand this simple technique.

Am I mistaken in assuming that folks generally come to this forum to learn better ways to experience movies in their home? There is much misunderstanding, hyperbole, and sometimes even deception in articles and advertisements found in consumer electronics media outlets. Unfortunately, consumers can form erroneous misconceptions and presumptions about video issues based upon such media exposure. This forum, and others like it, came about so home entertainment aficionados could learn and share with one another better ways of enjoying home theater, etc.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.
A Lion AV Consultants affiliate

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"

 

[Ronald Epstein]

George,

I can't speak for Robert.

However, I am assuming most consumers are happy with the quality of their display
and have never heard of bias lighting.

Those who are just hearing of it now, may not be convinced or even think it necessary
to invest in such a product. Not everyone is watching their display in a totally darkened
environment, or even getting eye fatigue.

You post some very convincing references. There are many testimonials on Amazon from
actual owners of bias lighting who say that it does what promises.

Again, I am not speaking for anyone, but I believe that my original review of my display was
glowing. I never indicated problems with eye fatigue due to the brightness. For all intents
and purposes, I was highly satisfied with my display.

...then suddenly I post a question about adding bias lighting. I believe that warrants a reaction
such as "why change something you are happy with?"
Personally, I am looking to experiment. If I spend $30 on two light kits and I feel it does nothing,
I think the experiment was worth it. However, I am pretty much certain that with your references
and the testimonials on Amazon, I am going to see an perceived improved performance from my display.

...and yes, the purpose of this forum is to help better the home theater experience for everyone.
However, keep in mind, everyone needs to make up their own mind as to whether they feel they
need to further improve their own experiences.

 

[GeorgeAB]

However, keep in mind, everyone needs to make up their own mind as to whether they feel they
need to further improve their own experiences.

Why is this not always obvious? Isn't it a fundamental fact of life that we get to decide when to seek greater knowledge of a subject or activity of interest?

 

[Ronald Epstein]

George,

You are not going to convince everyone.

That's life. You can't blame the person. You can't blame this forum.

Be happy I am willing to experiment and will post my experiences soon afterwards.

 

[schan1269]

Why is this not always obvious? Isn't it a fundamental fact of life that we get to decide when to seek greater knowledge of a subject or activity of interest?

When it is often our goal to get people to understand why to buy better than a TCL TV and a Philips $99 HTiB...and we are worried about SMPTE?

Maybe we should start up another forum at the opposite end of the dredge that was created for UV codes...

We shall call it...

"Home Theater Master Class...ye not come in with stupid questions"

 

[GeorgeAB]

George,

You are not going to convince everyone.

That's life. You can't blame the person. You can't blame this forum.

Be happy I am willing to experiment and will post my experiences soon afterwards.

Agreement isn't necessary. Clarity is a much more practical objective in a public forum or debate. How odd that "blame" would be considered! The choices each of us make carry their own benefits or consequences. Following thoroughly proven imaging science principles, display industry standards, and recommended practices, is a choice viewers can make once they become aware of such issues. Having differing priorities or preferences doesn't make one right or wrong, just different. If a viewer's objective is image fidelity and a reference viewing experience, following reference practices is the means to that end.

 

[DaveF]

George, Robert was giving me sound advice. Some people don't believe in the need for bias lighting -- others like myselfare just curious.

Ron, please post what you buy and how you like it after a couple week's use!Back not long after I first started HTF, I learned about bias lighting. At some point, I had a cheap 12" fluorescent mounted on the wall behind my Sony WEGA with double-sided sticky tape. I used a few sheets of custom-fit paper to dim and diffuse the light. It was connected to my AVR's switched outlet for auto-on. It was dandy.Some years later, I moved, changed receivers, and the bulb died -- and never got around to replacing it. I've thought about setting up dedicated bias light again. I need a little light to be comfortable. I get a little glare and halos from my contacts from point sources in dark light. So bias light is more comfortable for me. I've been using kitchen lights for a while as a good-enough.I wouldn't mind an intentional bias behind the flat screen again.

 

[Steve Tannehill]

I have built-in bias lighting...my Mitsubishi DLP has a blue light mounted on the front of the TV along the bottom. It is plenty bright and not distracting.

 

[Sam Posten]

I don't want any part of using bias lighting. The darker the room, the better. As my elderly mother would say, "What a bunch of hooey" !!

+1 this. I'm all for you experimenting Ron if that's what floats your boat, but I havent found I like this any better the few times I've seen it and it reeks of marketing to me, especially in the case of Philips. YMMV.

 

[Gregg Loewen]

hi guys

I'm finally finishing up at CES and headed home tomorrow.

A few scary thoughts in this thread.

Backlighting is a SMTPE recommendation for a reference environment. Back lighting is a THX requirement for all post production (reference environment). Bias lighting needs to be at the same color temperature as the light emitting from the display (D65 white), assuming that the room is also black, white, or a neutral (D65) shade of gray.

BTW, George has pretty much dedicated the last 20 years of his life in researching and promoting environmental science in relation to video standards. While a few of his comments are a bit harsh, his comments are 100% on in relation to every visual science research discussion over the past 3 decades.

Having a bias light is ALWAYS A GOOD THING when using a direct view display. Not a good thing when using a projector that relies on the absence of light to create a contrast ratio.

 

[Gregg Loewen]

forgot to add:

The addition of a properly implemented bias light will:

1. decrease eye fatigue
2. increase perceived contrast ratio (makes blacks seem darker...which is great for a display with marginal black levels).
3. allow the viewer to see greater detail due to the fact that their eyes will be less fatigued.