Bewitched Season 8? (1 Viewer)

[Jack P]

I'm not in disagreement over the fact that "Bewitched" is the inferior show, but being offended by the premise on religious grounds isn't the reason why I dislike it. The fact that there wasn't enough truly good comedy in it is the reason why I can only watch a random sampling of episodes when things did click together.

Personally, I've always felt that the best of the "supernatural gimmick" sitcoms of the 60s was the lesser-heralded "My Favorite Martian" simply because Ray Walston and Bill Bixby had the chemistry and byplay of an old-fashioned vaudeville team that always knew how to elevate the material into something more funny.

 

[Rob_Ray]

Originally Posted by Jack P
I'm not in disagreement over the fact that "Bewitched" is the inferior show, but being offended by the premise on religious grounds isn't the reason why I dislike it. The fact that there wasn't enough truly good comedy in it is the reason why I can only watch a random sampling of episodes when things did click together.

Personally, I've always felt that the best of the "supernatural gimmick" sitcoms of the 60s was the lesser-heralded "My Favorite Martian" simply because Ray Walston and Bill Bixby had the chemistry and byplay of an old-fashioned vaudeville team that always knew how to elevate the material into something more funny.

That's what I found frustrating with "Bewitched." To me it wasn't simply a comedy. It was a love story. A romantic comedy. My favorite episodes are the ones that involved things like would Darrin have married her if she had told him ahead of time she was a witch and where would Darrin be today if they had never met. I wasn't looking for laughs, but warmth and charm.

For pure laughs, I agree, "My Favorite Martian" was at the top of the heap. Pure Laurel and Hardy style fun. And Jeannie wasn't far behind. But, to me, Bewitched was more special. More magical somehow. I enjoyed the fact that Sam fit very nicely into Darrin's mortal world, interacting with Larry and Louise and his folks. Louise Tate was her best friend.

Unlike Jeannie who always had to be kept hidden away in a bottle.

Sounds like Nick at Nite's old Sam vs. Jeannie debate!

 

[Joe Lugoff]

Originally Posted by Jack P
My definition of "fanaticism" is when actors and writers succumb to the sin of arrogance and try to use what should be a medium of entertainment to appeal to a wide and diverse audience of people as a personal soapbox to shove a narrow agenda down the throats of the audience. By that standard, that makes Liz Montgomery in S7 the true definition of a "fanatic" IMO (and a chief reason why I don't watch any episodes from that season except for the one where one of my favorite ladies of 70s TV Barbara Rhoades, guests).

Jack Klugman personally ruined "Quincy" with the same approach.

What did Montgomery do during S7 that made her a fanatic?

 

[Jack P]

Paul Mavis's S7 review at DVD Talk summed it up perfectly for me.

"One thing the Ashers don't have trouble making clear this season is their political ideology. Making subtle and not-so subtle references to the turbulent real world outside fictional environs like Morning Glory Circle wasn't a common occurrence in the pre-All in the Family days of network sitcoms. But obviously, Montgomery and Asher didn't mind the writers working in bits about hippies and establishment squares whenever they could. Quite often in this seventh season, references are made to "mortal prejudices" and intolerance, which can be safely translated in Bewitched's code to mean conservatives (or at least a 1970 Hollywood screenwriter's idea of a "conservative") or "unenlightened" viewers who haven't gotten hip to the cultural revolution."

And his comments regarding S8.

"As with previous seasons, when Montgomery makes a point of lecturing the audience directly about a particular point of politics, the results are ham-fisted and obvious. In George Washington Zapped Here, a good story about Washington being appalled by the lack of free speech in American life is occasionally brought to a halt by Montgomery's musings, including a direct dig at then-President Nixon's "silent majority," a group of people Hollywood millionaire liberal Montgomery apparently had trouble with, since she denigrates them for "standing by the sidelines, being led, not defending their rights." (she conveniently forgets those "silent majority" sheep made her a household name.)"

That to me is fanaticism of the same kind that Norman Lear would then take to more insufferably arrogant levels throughout the 70s.

 

[bewitched1967]

The Ashers were hypocrites in that regard -- if they were trying to push a liberal agenda in S7 then they should have realized that their show was as conservative and anti-feminist as you could get in those days. This was a show about a woman who allowed herself to be oppressed by her husband, a family that was against mixed marriages (can we draw a parallel here?), and where every other scene included a ... "how about a drink, Larry?". How much drinking occurred on that show anyway?

Mrs. Bellows: It's true you won't have Major Nelson anymore Jeannie, but you'll have something much better ... COMMUNITY PROPERTY.
Jeannie: I do not want this community property!
Mrs. Bellows to Divorce Lawyer: He's brainwashed her.

 

[JohnMor]

?? Conservative?? In no way was Bewitched that conservative a show. It featured a mixed marriage by it's premise. It had Endora and Maurice who had an open marriage, where Maurice was frequently seen with some bimbo on his arm. It had Serena and Uncle Arthur, who were about as anti-Establishment as characters could be prior to Mike Stivic.

Nor could it be called anti-feminist, as almost all the women on the show had great power, and I'm not just talking magic. Endora certainly wasn't beholden to any man, let alone her husband. For that matter, neither was Gladys or Louise, who never really listened to or deferred to their husbands. Certainly Serena wasn't. And Sam chose not to use her magic and, like Darrin, earn her way through life; that was HER choice. And she did what she felt was right even when Darrin expressly didn't want her to, like picketing his client in the neighborhood park. She also wasn't afraid to tell Darrin when he was wrong, which she frequently did. And she had a brain. It was almost the antithesis of IDOJ. Where Jeannie would cause havoc from her ignorance or petty jealousy, leaving Tony to scramble to dig himself out, Sam almost always got Darrin out of his trouble by using her brain, rather than her magic. Jeannie could never have thought up a logan on the spur of the moment for Col. Brighams's spare ribs or any of the myriad other times Sam's mind saved the day, rather than her witchcraft. Not to mention the fact, that quite a few of Darrin's clients were women.

Plus, as fun as IDOJ could be at times, the writing was beyond pedestrian and juvenile. I mean, how many times did Jeannie get hit on the head and knocked out right when she was supposed to blink?

Originally Posted by bewitched1967
The Ashers were hypocrites in that regard -- if they were trying to push a liberal agenda in S7 then they should have realized that their show was as conservative and anti-feminist as you could get in those days. This was a show about a woman who allowed herself to be oppressed by her husband, a family that was against mixed marriages (can we draw a parallel here?), and where every other scene included a ... "how about a drink, Larry?". How much drinking occurred on that show anyway?

Mrs. Bellows: It's true you won't have Major Nelson anymore Jeannie, but you'll have something much better ... COMMUNITY PROPERTY.
Jeannie: I do not want this community property!
Mrs. Bellows to Divorce Lawyer: He's brainwashed her.

 

[Michael Rogers]

While I reject the knee jerk definitions of Conservative and Liberal (they are often so wrong in many ways) you have to realize that Samantha was never oppressed by Darrin.

Samantha loves Darrin and realizes Darrin's rugged individualism and she realizes that him living life her way would destroy him and what she loves about him, so Samantha decides to live life his way. Samantha is not oppressed, she wants to live life in his realm WHILE he is around (remember, Samantha will live long after Darrin).

 

[Gary OS]

I'll throw in my two cents via a personal summery about this show that I did watch in reruns as a kid in the mid 70's:

1) I thought the first couple of seasons were pretty solid, but it quickly lost it's luster, IMHO, as some of the cast died and or were replaced.

2) If I were to assign blame for the constant bickering between Endora and Darrin, the majority has to go to Endora. I'm not sure how anyone can see it any differently. This relationship was not an equal, give as good as you get, deal. Darrin was pretty much always the abused guy and took the brunt of it many times. And how often did Samantha all but run out on the marriage? More than just once or twice during those 8 seasons. It got a bit much, IMHO.

3) While the incantations and other witchcraftery did at times get a bit too "devilish" for me (never anything horrible, but I'd be lying if I said it never ever bothered me), the biggest moral issue I had was the D-R-I-N-K-I-N-G. It was constant and it was ridiculous. That really turned me off as I had a close cousin that was killed on her high school graduation night by a drunk driver ramming into her car. I'm just not cool with the constant use of alchohol in this show. That's the major moral failure of this show, IHMO.

4) I'm in full agreement with the excellent summeries my good friend Paul Mavis made about Seasons 7 & 8. He hit the nail on the head 100% when it came to accurately calling Montgomery and Asher liberals that had a clear agenda by the time the show hit that point. Norman Lear surely would have been proud to be associated with those last couple of years.

My two cents.

Gary "just back from vacation" O.

 

[LeoA]

"Darrin was pretty much always the abused guy and took the brunt of it many times. And how often did Samantha all but run out on the marriage? More than just once or twice during those 8 seasons. It got a bit much, IMHO."

As I said in earlier post dissecting this series a few pages back, there's plenty of fictional blame to be placed on Darrin as well. Probably the majority belongs to Endora, but there's plenty to go around.

And how many times did we see Darrin run away from his wife to the local bar to hide and think while drowning his sorrows? How is that any different then running home to mother? If anything it was worse and more common.

And I never particularly found I was being preached to in late seasons. I wasn't watching these when it was a contemporary program so some of it's impact is lost on me due to some catch phrases like the "silent majority" not having the same perhaps insulting impact they once did. But things like urging people to protect their rights rather then being silent is about as preachy as it ever seemed to get and is something conservatives like myself should believe in as well. Bewitched was a far cry from the Norman Lear garbage cluttering the airwaves during the 70s and is completely tame compared to most of the episodes of his programs (With one despicable episode of Maude coming especially to mind). Comparing Bewitched to this guy's work is an inaccurate reflection of how the show really was.

 

[JohnMor]

I agree that Endora gets the lion's share of blame. It's all spelled out in the first 3 episodes: she immediately is prejudiced against Darrin without meeting him or knowing anything about him except that he's mortal. It has nothing to do with his not liking Sam's powers as he doesn't even know about them yet. She even plays games with him by putting him in the lobby in his pajamas. And when they do meet, Darrin meets her with an open mind. He even hugs Gladys at the end of ep. 2 thinking she's Sam's mother. What does Endora do when they first meet? She comes into HIS house, refuses to call him by name even after he asks her to (which is RUDE), makes an outrageous drink request (which is RUDE), makes it herself instead of accepting what the hosts offer (which is RUDE), rubs his nose in witchcraft, calls his beliefs asinine, threatens him and leaves. She set the tone with all that, not Darrin.

Like Leo, I never felt preached to. Aside from the innocuous "silent majority" comment in Season 8, which is pretty banal, what episodes ever really pushed a "Liberal" agenda? "Sisters at Heart" would be the closest thing to a political statement, and that can't be called "liberal" unless you consider racial bigotry to be "conservative," which I certainly don't think is the case. Which others are there?

I also meant to mention in my earlier comments about the series being "anti-feminist" that I find IDOJ to be more anti-feminist than BW. Darrin was proud of Sam, and considered her a great asset to his career (without her powers even!), whereas Tony spent 4 years seemingly ashamed of Jeannie and didn't want her in public with him. To all appearances, she was good enough to cook for him, take care of his house, kiss him (and presumably sleep with him), but he would never introduce her as his girlfriend. In fact he frequently lied to her to sneak out with some OTHER woman. Which is the more sexist attitude, Darrin's or Tony's?

 

[bewitched1967]

When you consider the overall premise, BW was far more sexist than IDOJ. You're not comparing apples to apples -- you would have to compare IDOJ in Season 5 after they were married to BW. As for the whole Endora/Darrin conflict over the entire series' run, it got tired after a while -- no character development whatsoever. Both Endora and Darrin were unlikeable characters -- Darrin was an idiot hothead, and Endora was a bitch.

 

[Joe Lugoff]

I don't think the correct analogy to Endora's not accepting Darrin is "racism."

I think it's more like members of royalty not being allowed to marry a "commoner" (which is just as nauseating as racism, if you ask me.)

Or a mother being disappointed if her Ph.D. daughter married a laborer who dropped out of high school.

I think I can understand Endora's feelings that her daughter, who had amazing abilities, was willing to give them up for DARRIN, of all people. The way she handled it may have been wrong, but I can certainly understand where Endora was coming from.

 

[JohnMor]

/forum/thread/283275/bewitched-season-8/360#post_3702353
I don't think the correct analogy to Endora's not accepting Darrin is "racism."

I think it's more like members of royalty not being allowed to marry a "commoner" (which is just as nauseating as racism, if you ask me.)

Or a mother being disappointed if her Ph.D. daughter married a laborer who dropped out of high school.

I think I can understand Endora's feelings that her daughter, who had amazing abilities, was willing to give them up for DARRIN, of all people. The way she handled it may have been wrong, but I can certainly understand where Endora was coming from.

But it's not a Ph.D daughter and a high schoold dropout. Those are actions and achievements, or choices to NOT act and achieve. Whereas mortal and witch are simply born that way. That's why I do think racism is a more accurate analogy. And of course, the witch world had their own royalty, and neither Endora nor Sam weren't part of it (at least not back in the first 3 episodes.)

 

[Jdcrackers]

Hey everyone sorry I kept mentioning Season 9, As an avid Bewitched fan, one can assume, I was so happy that possible some episodes were written for the 9th season which I read, and now I know wikipedia.org isn't reliable. I just hope one day we will get that back set! Hope everyone is going well... Anyone know if we will see a blu ray soon?

 

[Sky Captain]

I'll throw in my two cents via a personal summery about this show that I did watch in reruns as a kid in the mid 70's:

1) I thought the first couple of seasons were pretty solid, but it quickly lost it's luster, IMHO, as some of the cast died and or were replaced.

2) If I were to assign blame for the constant bickering between Endora and Darrin, the majority has to go to Endora. I'm not sure how anyone can see it any differently. This relationship was not an equal, give as good as you get, deal. Darrin was pretty much always the abused guy and took the brunt of it many times. And how often did Samantha all but run out on the marriage? More than just once or twice during those 8 seasons. It got a bit much, IMHO.

3) While the incantations and other witchcraft did at times get a bit too "devilish" for me (never anything horrible, but I'd be lying if I said it never ever bothered me), the biggest moral issue I had was the D-R-I-N-K-I-N-G. It was constant and it was ridiculous. That really turned me off as I had a close cousin that was killed on her high school graduation night by a drunk driver ramming into her car. I'm just not cool with the constant use of alcohol in this show. That's the major moral failure of this show, IHMO.

4) I'm in full agreement with the excellent summaries my good friend Paul Mavis made about Seasons 7 & 8. He hit the nail on the head 100% when it came to accurately calling Montgomery and Asher liberals that had a clear agenda by the time the show hit that point. Norman Lear surely would have been proud to be associated with those last couple of years.

My two cents.

Gary "just back from vacation" O.

If you have a problem with this human activity, then you'd also have a problem with any British TV show-Coronation Street being one example and any current one, sing drinking a libation is apart of human life. There's nothing wrong with it, and if you have a problem with it, maybe you should not watch TV, read books, or see movies-drinking happens in most stories.

 

[Gary OS]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sky Captain
If you have a problem with this human activity, then you'd also have a problem with any British TV show-Coronation Street being one example and any current one, sing drinking a libation is apart of human life. There's nothing wrong with it, and if you have a problem with it, maybe you should not watch TV, read books, or see movies-drinking happens in most stories.

Wow. You resurrected a quote from me that was over a year old just to tell me that? All I did was express my opinion about some elements of this show that I personally didn't care for. And I went to some lengths to share something from my personal life (a cousin being killed) that I admit affected my outlook on the issue. I also specifically pointed out that this show, in particular, was over the top when it came to the issue. I can't think of too many other shows that had the stars with drinks in their hands in almost every single episode. This series was unique when it came to that. I doubt most people would disagree with me on that point.

The bottom line is that I didn't tell anyone else what they should or shouldn't do and I'd appreciate the same courtesy.


Gary " " O.

 

[Steve...O]

Originally Posted by Gary OS
Quote:
Wow. You resurrected a quote from me that was over a year old just to tell me that? All I did was express my opinion about some elements of this show that I personally didn't care for. And I went to some lengths to share something from my personal life (a cousin being killed) that I admit affected my outlook on the issue. I also specifically pointed out that this show, in particular, was over the top when it came to the issue. I can't think of too many other shows that had the stars with drinks in their hands in almost every single episode. This series was unique when it came to that. I doubt most people would disagree with me on that point.

The bottom line is that I didn't tell anyone else what they should or shouldn't do and I'd appreciate the same courtesy.


Gary " " O.

Wow indeed. Your last sentence hit the nail on the head, Gary. We're all free to express our personal opinions here as long as they don't talk down to another member for their beliefs. Dredging up an old post and adding a snarky response directed at the original poster is really poor form, especially on a friendly forum like HTF. Some of the best discussions we've had at HTF are among those who had different viewpoints on an issue but also took care to not make anything personal.

 

[Gary OS]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve...O
Wow indeed. Your last sentence hit the nail on the head, Gary. We're all free to express our personal opinions here as long as they don't talk down to another member for their beliefs. Dredging up an old post and adding a snarky response directed at the original poster is really poor form, especially on a friendly forum like HTF. Some of the best discussions we've had at HTF are among those who had different viewpoints on an issue but also took care to not make anything personal.

Thanks, Steve. I agree that sharing opinions is great as long as no one makes it personal.


Gary "take care, buddy" O.

 

[Jeff Willis]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sky Captain
If you have a problem with this human activity, then you'd also have a problem with any British TV show-Coronation Street being one example and any current one, sing drinking a libation is apart of human life. There's nothing wrong with it, and if you have a problem with it, maybe you should not watch TV, read books, or see movies-drinking happens in most stories.

[COLOR= black]Your comment is not only inappropriate, as Gary and Steve have substantiated, but your remarks conviently ignore one significant fact regarding "drinking" and that it's "part of human life."[/COLOR]

[COLOR= black]- Agree, alcohol when consumed in moderate quantities is one thing, but, as Gary clearly explained in his prior post, excessive consumption often leads to tragic consequences. That was mentioned by Gary, yet you chose to ignore that important point.[/COLOR]

[COLOR= black]- Surprise...I'm a big fan of Bewitched. That said, I'm the first to agree with Gary's point about how this series emphasized alcohol consumption in many of its episodes. I doubt that our other Bewitched fan members would disagree with that fact. Many episodes included "Larry" and "Darrin" frequenting the Steven's bar and there were many scenes in a local bar where the resident drunk made an appearance ("Dick Wilson", the well-known character actor comes to mind, among others).[/COLOR]

[COLOR= black]Personally, the numerous drinking scenes don't bother me in this series. On the other hand, I've not been through the experience of having lost a close friend or relative in a senseless alcohol-related traffic incident. I'd think that there would be others that would feel similar to Gary about shows that clearly feature many scenes where the lead characters are depicted consuming alcoholic beverages, if they have experienced similar tragedies in their lives.[/COLOR]

[COLOR= black]Please consider some of these points before posting similar comments. [/COLOR]

 

[Gary OS]

Thanks, Jeff. That was very well said and you definitely communicated my thoughts on the subject.


Gary "funny, but I was only responding to other posters and a well-known dvd reviewer (Paul Mavis) as it concerned this issue - yet I was the one targeted for only expressing my personal opinions" O.