best speaker brands? bang for buck? (1 Viewer)

[Dustin B]

They don't advertise in the main stream magazines. No add money to the magazine means very low priority for a review.

New marketing strategy. Internet can spread the word widely and quickly. Make a good product and provide good service, let word of mouth spread on the internet and you should do well.

I like that much more than inflating speaker prices to pay for add space (and good reviews) in main stream magazines.

 

[Trey Jones]

I like paradigm
I also like Axiom... I really like axiom
PSB is also a good choice. What I have to say is listen to them all. I bought Paradigm, but you make your own choice.

 

[Chris Tsutsui]

"Chris...
Remember that Bose sells some of it's products "direct" to consumers and they are NOT closer to cost that way...neither are "white van" speakers...to ASSUME you are getting a better deal buying direct is to ignore scams, greed, and "economy of scale" issues that may be in play...I don't assume the 16 year old cheerleader that my friend chats on-line with is 16, a cheerleader, or a woman for that matter ..............."
Matt, I just wanted to let you know your argument post came off as rude to me. I hope you weren't trying to disprove my assumption cause that what is sounds like.

 

[Anthony_Gomez]

Energy

 

[EricHaas]

Yep, Paradigms are substantially cheaper in Canada than in the US (roughly 30%). Strangely enough, the same is not true for PSB and some other Canadian brands (AFAIK). At US prices, my ears say that Paradigm and PSB are pretty close. At Canadian prices, it is tough to beat Paradigm. I would also throw in Axiom. Bottom line, get out to the hi-fi shops and start listening!

 

[mike_decock]

New marketing strategy. Internet can spread the word widely and quickly. Make a good product and provide good service, let word of mouth spread on the internet and you should do well.

There's an other benefit to keeping it small and "word of mouth". You can stay small and efficient. When a company gets bigger because of demand, you gotta get a bigger building, hire more people, hire people to manage those people, hire more accountants to pay those people... Well... You get the drift. It's just the law of diminishing returns.


-Mike...

 

[Matt Jesty]

No ,Chris, it's the assumption that bothers me not that there isn't truth to both sides,,,Sorry if I offended....Yes , mag reviewers are suspect but my friend is making a very healthy living "e-marketing" for mnfgrs and web sites......lots of employees (started out as friends and family) posting in forums as "average educated audio enthusiast" creating buzz for certain products and sites ,which in turn pay him for these postings.....
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++
New marketing strategy. Internet can spread the word widely and quickly. Make a good product and provide good service, let word of mouth spread on the internet and you should do well.
I like that much more than inflating speaker prices to pay for add space (and good reviews) in main stream magazines.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++
Again Sorry if it came off as rude ,I just don't like the fact that "e-marketing" is suckering a lot of people who believe his "independant" reviews (paid for by mfgrs and web sites)ARE written by "regular-everyday forum posters....

 

[mike_decock]

Yes , mag reviewers are suspect but my friend is making a very healthy living "e- marketing" for mnfgrs and web sites......lots of employees (started out as friends and family) posting in forums as "average educated audio enthusiast" creating buzz for certain products and sites ,which in turn pay him for these postings.....

So who do you trust and where do you look for guidance when you get the urge to upgrade?

-Mike...

 

[Ted Kim]

No magazine reviews that I know of (unfortunately). The way I found out about them was in an article in Listener Magazine, a reviewer reviewing another pair of speakers said they were not nearly as involving as the AVM Solutions A/V1s he had a few months ago. I found out that the A/V1s were manufactured for AVM Solutions by GR Research and found out that they were available in kit form for much less.

Actually, The AVMS speakers are the same as the older GR Research A/V 1, i.e. with a parallel crossover. The latest models have the series crossover. The very latest iteration has a new woofer and slightly different crossover network. The new woofer arrived in the US this month.
However, as a reference point, there are several reviews of the AVMS AV 1 out there. Here's a link to a review in the Sensible Sound Link Removed
There was another review of the AVMS speakers in Home Theater magazine, last year, which was generally pretty positive. I have this issue at home.
However, let me reiterate that both of those reviews were for the older, parallel crossover version. The newer, series crossover version has been deemed superior by those who have compared them.
Also, I would like to throw another loudspeaker name into the ring, besides those previously mentioned. AAD. http://www.aadsound.com. They also seem to have great bang for the buck, from the comments I've read.

 

[mike_decock]

However, let me reiterate that both of those reviews were for the older, parallel crossover version. The newer, series crossover version has been deemed superior by those who have compared them.

I actually have the the Paradox 1 which is a slightly different design but is more tube-friendly.

-Mike...

 

[Dustin B]

The AV1 got the new 3rd order series crossover a little while ago. The AV1+ (what Matrice has) still uses the 1st order parallel one.

So Matt, are you saying GR-Research, SVS, Adire and the like are paying people to register on this forum and post positive reviews?

I know Danny, Tom/Ron and Dan would take great exception to that. And I do really believe that none of them have ever or will ever do such a thing.

 

[mike_decock]

Such a "campaign" wouldn't last too long if the product being hyped weren't up to snuff, anyway.

-Mike...

 

[Anthony_Gomez]

The AV1 got the new 3rd order series crossover a little while ago.

TTBOMK, Andy G's theoretical second order series XO is the only non-first order series XO. DAnny uses a first order series XO. I think the parallel one would be the 3rd order.

 

[Dustin B]

Hmm, well his website says "Proprietary 1st order crossover" for the AV1+. And the switch was from parallel to series with the AV1 not?
He doens't list the order of the AV1 on his site, but I'm almost 100% positive I read on the old page or AA Danny saying the series crossover in the AV1 was 3rd order. I could be wrong though. Maybe one of use should just email Danny

 

[Danny Richie]

Hey everybody!

No my ears weren't burning, somebody called me and asked me to jump into this thread.

There are several separate issues here and I will try to take them one by one.

First off concerning the networks used in our speakers.

I'll start with the A/V-1.

Originally it had a simple first order parallel network that worked fine with our drivers.

The A/V-1's that we made for AVMS did have this simple first order network. Using that network they received outstanding reviews in the Audio Critic. Peter Aczel is one guy that will say what he thinks and could care less about advertisers. At a retail price of $900. a pair he loved them. And prised them highly while being pretty rough on some expensive, big name, speakers in that same issue.

Also Sensible Sound gave them a great review and called them their latest sensible choice for speakers.

The Absolute Sound give them the usual review that they give everyone as they reviewed six different mini-monitors in the same issue. It was a little fluff and not a lot of meat and potato's.

Since last year the speaker was upgraded with a series network that technically was a second order series network with a rather unique wiring type.

Since the addition of the new M-130 woofer, one cap was added to the woofer side of the network, and most of the values changed slightly to make better use of the extended range of this new woofer. So technically, it has a second order series network on the tweeter and is third order on the woofer.

Electrically the drivers can see the control of a third order network with as great as 4th order acoustic roll off, and with only 6 total components in the circuit.

The A/V-1+ has had a first order network and the out dated info on the web page still reflects that. While technically it was a first order network there was a LR trap on the tweeter that pulled power off of it as frequency decreased and as impedance rises. Basically it pulls power off of it as it approaches resonance, and giving the tweeter a steep acoustic slope after passing the 2kHz crossover point.

Since bringing in the new woofers its network has been updated too. The crossover point is a little higher also. It still has a parallel network but has a third order on the tweeter and second order on the woofers.

Next issue: Reviews

First of all GR Research has never paid anyone for a review, nor have we ever paid for advertising in any magazine that has reviewed our speakers.

We just don't do business that way.

Plus, with our current marketing strategy I can't image any of the major publications wanting to review any of our kits. It would be a stab in the back to the retailing companies that support their magazines.

Those companies still retailing products through traditional distribution channels (stores) are steadily loosing ground to the companies that sell direct to their market via the Internet as it is. If the major publications started promoting companies using these marketing technics they would loose most of the companies currently advertising with them.

Those magazines are not covering their operation cost from magazine subscribers. Have you check the price for a Stereophile subscription? $11.97 for a year? That magazine is being paid for by advertisers.

If we advertised there and in other publications we could not sell our products as cheaply as we do. The cost of continued advertising champagnes is huge.

So we don't reach as many people on this road, but that's okay. If we offer a really good product at a really good price. The word will eventually get around. Good news travels fast.

The Internet makes it possible for customers to share their experiences and even write their own reviews. Some of them are quite good reviewers. I like them. They are the most honest reviews because the individuals have nothing to gain from them.

Our customers have been and will continue to be our best advertisers. Only a happy customer will pass on their joy.

 

[Matt Jesty]

We just don't do business that way.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++=
Danny, if people don't take mag reviewers words as gospel (as we shouldn't), it's not likely that they will take a principle in the company's word either...of course if people believe everything they read on the net, that's another story.......
Such a "campaign" wouldn't last too long if the product being hyped weren't up to snuff, anyway.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++
look how long some products that are mostly hype have lasted
and multiply by the knowledge of how short term audio memory is soooo poor and add the fact that people(especially those trying to save a buck) want to believe (talk themselves into) that they made a great purchase.....
Most will see what I mean....
BEWARE, "white van" speakers have a website, thousands of satisfied customers, can print great reviews ,and are worth hundreds more than what most paid for them (according to their website and owners, ha-ha)

 

[Dustin B]

When it comes right down to it Matt, I took the chance and built my Tempest. I'm now a firm believer in the value some of these DIY companies can offer. Others who also built the Tempest and told me how great it would be (this along with reading dozens of their posts allows me to decide if I trust their opinion or not) have built these DIY speakers and say they are just as great. My next speakers will be DIY speakers.

Have you ever heard any of these popular DIY speakers or subs?

add the fact that people(especially those trying to save a buck) want to believe (talk themselves into) that they made a great purchase

That can be reversed right around.

People (especially those trying to justify how much they spent on their equipment) want to believe (talk themselves into) that they made a great purchase.

I don't think either of us will convince the other in this thread. The only way one of us will change our opinion is if we had the oppertunity to set a price range, get and configure two systems within that price range and see who's system sounds better. (by the way, I'd win that one :p))

 

[Matt Jesty]

Dustin,
I love some of the brands that have been mentioned ...I have heard, I'm sure, more than most...It is the ASSUMPTION that initially provoked a post from me......If I wanted to sell white van speakers these days, it would be a "hype-driven, e-marketing" extravaganza.....NO I AM NOT A 16 YEAR OLD CHEERLEADER .....but are you sure?

 

[mike_decock]

If I wanted to sell white van speakers these days, it would be a "hype-driven, e-marketing" extravaganza.....NO I AM NOT A 16 YEAR OLD CHEERLEADER .....but are you sure?

I thought you WERE a 16 year old chearleader? I'm kind of disenchanted now :frowning:.
Granted you could fabricate a "hype" campaign. You can never be 100% certain of the reliability of any printed or spoken word, be it on the internet or in a magazine. If you write it all off as "hype", then who do you trust?
The great thing about the DIY field, especially right now, is the enthusiasm of the people who are finding great value this way. I've had more opportunities to do extended listening tests of DIY, factory direct, and small company equipment than the big name brands because those enthusiasts are very willing to open up their homes and share their findings with you. You don't have a dealer/salesman hovering over you and they'll welcome you to bring over your own equipment to do a little shootout.
I think the DIY, word-of-mouth and community-based approach is going to be very successful in the long run. It's certainly a lot more fun than reading an article, ordering an item over the internet and listening to it with no second opinion.
-Mike...

 

[mike_decock]

Plus, with our current marketing strategy I can't image any of the major publications wanting to review any of our kits.

I think Listener Magazine would be the most likely to do a review of one of your kits. They're very supportive of the DIY field. I'm not sure if you can call them a "major" publication, though.


-Mike...