Best driver for an small size/cheap price sub?

Discussion in 'Home Theater Projects' started by Manuel Delaflor, Feb 4, 2004.

  1. Manuel Delaflor

    Manuel Delaflor Supporting Actor

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    I own a big Tempest "Sonosub", a friend of mine is very interested in having something similar (both in performance and price) but much smaller in size (WAF).

    Which driver would be the best for this situation? He wants to get the best possible bass extension, even if that means a bit less SPL than what a Tempest in a big enclosure can do.

    Thanks!
     
  2. Jeremy Stockwell

    Jeremy Stockwell Supporting Actor

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    Would he consider and Infinite Baffle sub? No box = high WAF.

    Otherwise, I've seen others comment on a Tumult either sealed or with passive radiators with good results.

    But your title says "small size/cheap price." If these are requirements, performance is going to suffer. If everyone could have a beautiful, tiny subwoofer that can go subsonic at reasonable levels for less than $300.00, then you (and most others who do - like me) probably wouldn't have a "big Tempest sonosub."

    JKS
     
  3. Manuel Delaflor

    Manuel Delaflor Supporting Actor

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    Nope, IB is not an option. And of course it is difficult to achieve. Im considering a Brahma or Sadhara driver from Adire, but the graphs from Unibox (the software I use to calculate the enclosure) doesnt seem good enough.

    Maybe Im doing something wrong.
     
  4. Jeremy Stockwell

    Jeremy Stockwell Supporting Actor

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    Does the guy already have something in mind for amplification? If so, what?

    What about a Stryke AV12 or AV15 ($175 and $205, respectively) with a couple of passive radiators? Their 1050g 15" PR appears to be on sale right now for $45/each.

    I don't know much about these Stryke alignments. Perhaps someone else has a suggestion?

    JKS
     
  5. Manuel Delaflor

    Manuel Delaflor Supporting Actor

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    No, we need the amplification too. Those Stryke look nice, but I see no flat response, but a bump in their own design, like the one I get with the Brahma or the Sadhara.

    Im guessing they will sound ok even with that bump?
     
  6. Jeremy Stockwell

    Jeremy Stockwell Supporting Actor

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    Don't depend too much on modeling software. You'll spend weeks finding a driver/enclosure that lends a ruler flat response curve in UniBox only to discover that in LspCAD or WinISD, it's not quite so flat, let alone what you'll actually get once you get it in a room with a response curve all its own.

    Consider a BFD for tweaking your in-room response. Though, understand that it will probably eat up some amp headroom and that you can't EQ out a room null.

    Everything is a compromise. Prioritize your design goals and go for it.

    JKS
     
  7. Manuel Delaflor

    Manuel Delaflor Supporting Actor

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    Thanks Jeremy,

    I wasnt aware of the differences among the software that models boxes.

    Guess then I will have to see which is the maximum budget and start from there, and not with the best driver for the situation.
     
  8. Javier_Huerta

    Javier_Huerta Supporting Actor

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    How about a Titanic Mk. I on a sealed box? The specs look right...
     
  9. Jeremy Stockwell

    Jeremy Stockwell Supporting Actor

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    Don't get me wrong, the modeling software can be very helpful. There are definitely drivers that work better in a given situation than other drivers. Many drivers that are intended for HT/DIY applications also have "recommended applications" that are available (Stryke and Adire, at least, both have these). Sometimes, it's easiest to use one of those applications(no need to reinvent the wheel). If you deviate from a recommended application for a driver (say, by reducing the enclosure volume), then you definitely should use some software to see what you're doing to the box's ideal frequency response.

    All I was trying to say was even if you find an application that seems to yield good results on software, that doesn't insure that you'll get the same good results in a particular room.

    As I said, a BFD/EQ can help with in-room FR, but even then, only to a point.

    JKS
     
  10. Manuel Delaflor

    Manuel Delaflor Supporting Actor

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    I see.

    Then I must get back to my original question,

    If one wants big bass from a small enclosure at a bargain price... which would be the best drivers? :b
     
  11. Jason_Me

    Jason_Me Stunt Coordinator

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    I would go with Adire's 95 liter SBB4 Shiva alignment with a Rythmik 350 amp.

    Shiva mkIV $115
    Rythmik 350 $155
    4" port $21

    http://www.acoustic-visions.com/
     
  12. Wayne Ernst

    Wayne Ernst Cinematographer

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    Why not consider the Nady amp for $179 + shipping? It will provide more power and allow some flexibility in the future if you need more power.
     
  13. Jeremy Stockwell

    Jeremy Stockwell Supporting Actor

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    I guess I should back up a few steps also.



    Define:

    How big (bass)?

    How small (enclosure)?

    How cheap (budget)? (Include amplification)

    Also, what size room will the sub be going in? (dimensions/cubic feet)

    JKS
     
  14. Manuel Delaflor

    Manuel Delaflor Supporting Actor

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    Jason,

    Thanks for the suggestion

    Wayne,

    ditto

    Jeremy,

    Considering a budget of around 300 bucks (maybe a bit more but not reaching 400), the smallest possible enclosure that can give clean 20Hz at no more than -4dB

    Obviously it wont give as many raw SPL as a Tempest in a big enclosure, but we want to get as close as possible. Remember WAF is strong for him, (hehe)
     
  15. Jeremy Stockwell

    Jeremy Stockwell Supporting Actor

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    OK, then I'd have to second Jason_Me's suggestion of the 95L SBB4 Shiva alignment. I use the PE 250W plate amp (300-794) with my Tempest with fine results. It would suffice for a Shiva for sure. When on sale (not currently), it can be had for $99 shipped. That pairing with some other cost-cutting ideas might get you close to 20Hz in-room for around $300.

    If you're not already, familiarize yourself with
    Hoffman's Iron Law. It may help explain why what you're trying to accomplish is difficult, and it doesn't deal at all with the issue of cost [​IMG].

    JKS
     
  16. Manuel Delaflor

    Manuel Delaflor Supporting Actor

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    Sorry to resurect an old thread [​IMG]

    I might have the solution. What about an Isobaric Tempest? Has anyone done one? I used the search on the forum, but I found only posts about isobaric subs, not actually someone who has built one...
     
  17. Geoff L

    Geoff L Screenwriter

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    Yes a face to face or other type typical Iso will basically half the needed interior volume, but at a cost!

    Was that not a consideration for you, the cost?

    Your using/spending for 2 drivers and pretty much only getting the spl of (1)...
    Adding tho, this (1) driver spl might be with some possible lower (odd order I belive), harmonic distortion numbers depending on the type/design Iso used.

    Everything has a trade off and Iso are not usually built due to their increased dual driver costs with no gain in spl persay, just a smaller box. Also the "typical face to face sealed or ported Iso",,,, is not real WAF....


    Well designed Iso's can make excellent bass, but still you have to pay the fiddeler to play, just in a different way....[​IMG]
     
  18. Manuel Delaflor

    Manuel Delaflor Supporting Actor

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    Cost is imporant, but WAF is more important. [​IMG]

    Anyway, twice the cost of the driver for half the enclosure seems about fair. But I wonder, is it easy? What about the port, I think it would be larger than the enclosure, Im confused.
     
  19. Stephen Weller

    Stephen Weller Stunt Coordinator

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    That's something I'm still trying to figure out.

    All the illustrations I've seen on the web depict an isobaric configuration as sealed. Then I've seen several DIYer's websites where they built what they call isobaric subs that are ported. So I'm wondering if they haven't created some kind of hybrid. [​IMG]
     
  20. Javier_Huerta

    Javier_Huerta Supporting Actor

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    AFAIK, box tuning does not depend on subwoofer (isobaric / single driver) configuration. So, a box tuned at a certain frequency should work in iso / single driver configuration.

    I'm very interested in this thread. I'm thinking too about building a small sub. The problem is, I still haven't figured out how to build a sub that doesn't look astoundingly ugly on an isobaric configuration.
     

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